company fallers dilemma

[hammerlogging]

I am looking for some expert advice.

I know there is some criticism of company fallers because they can slack, but we work this way for quality control.

Some fallers work as contractors, these are paid a day rate. Some are employees, these are paid hourly, plus a day rate for saw expense. I'm paid different because I also do layout, and some long term planning, and at home projects when the weather is just too crappy. I know I get my share of wood on the ground.

When I've been paid by the mbf, it was easy because I was the only faller.

We pay the way we do becasue the boss says it keeps quality higher- snag removal, desired TSI, and higher utilization of sawlog topwood and small diameter timber for pulpwood, stuff bypassed when cutting by the mbf.
I need to see what each faller is getting on the ground. How can I see this audited in as least labor intensive manner? Remember, its not just sawlog where the volume is at, but also topwood and in some cases lots of smaller stuff- 8-12 inch stems, bucked to 20' if thats all its got but sometimes run out 50 plus feet, random lengths, especially where we are making openings.

Thanks.

 

[Jacob J.]

What we did when I worked for Superior Lumber was to put my initials on the butt of each tree over a certain diameter, and also on the stumps of snags and larger hardwoods.

So typically when I was in a strip, I'd have to initial the stump on all hardwoods and snags over 16". This way the bullbuck could easily see how I was processing individual trees and whether or not I was leaving dangerous snags in my strip. Just have your cutters carry a chalk and it's real fast to put initials on a stump or a butt.

Company fallers in some places do get a reputation for being slackers, but mostly that's not the case. Weyerhauser had company cutters for over 80 years, and Roseburg Lumber had company guys for almost 50 years before the plug was pulled.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

More good input from JJ.

 

[hammerlogging]

its for the chance for production bonus incentives as much as to see who's getting what down. Thanks for the input.

 

[Jacob J.]

You also might have them initial individual logs if it's an especially large tree or valuable species. One job I worked as a company guy we had to mark all the Sugar Pine in the unit, since a #2 Sugar Pine at that time was up around $1100/mbf and the average diameter in that sale was about 45 inches.

 

[Wishie22]

What about different color lumber crayons (http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15980+RED&catID=158).

 

[redprospector]

We used to have to mark the butt's of each tree with initials, date, and tree # for that day. Sometimes it seemed like I was writing as much as I was cutting.

Andy

 

[hammerlogging]

We used to have to mark the butt's of each tree with initials, date, and tree # for that day. Sometimes it seemed like I was writing as much as I was cutting.

Andy

Yea, trying to find ways to keep it simple and especially to not make it a big deal, or make the others feel uneasy about being "watched"

 

[redprospector]

Yea, trying to find ways to keep it simple and especially to not make it a big deal, or make the others feel uneasy about being "watched"

I think you're fighting a loosing battle there.
If you make any changes that will allow monitoring, they will feel like they are being watched, and therefore feel uneasy.

Andy

 

[056kid]

Yea, trying to find ways to keep it simple and especially to not make it a big deal, or make the others feel uneasy about being "watched"

uneasy about being watched??

 

[hammerlogging]

uneasy about being watched??

Are you not familiar with the egos floating around the falling crew? I was sure I'd picked up on some of that.

 

[056kid]

Are you not familiar with the egos floating around the falling crew? I was sure I'd picked up on some of that.

Well aware, but who gives a ####,


If theyr gettin payed, #### em...

 

[CanadianCarGuy]

If you are wanting to see how much a faller does, put them where they are isolated or just starting opening up, that way they are the only ones falling the wood in that area. Short of having them put a stamp hammer or marking every log you are in an uphill battle that will never end. Just out of curiousity why are you wanting to know what each man does? Do you have some deadbeats? Or is one not cutting lengths or what? Also make sure you swap them around partner wise, after awhile this will indicate approximately what each man does. One thing about a production bonus incentive, is that you find fallers taking shortcuts and more risks in order to make those extra bucks.

 

[Greystoke]

If you are wanting to see how much a faller does, put them where they are isolated or just starting opening up, that way they are the only ones falling the wood in that area. Short of having them put a stamp hammer or marking every log you are in an uphill battle that will never end. Just out of curiousity why are you wanting to know what each man does? Do you have some deadbeats? Or is one not cutting lengths or what? Also make sure you swap them around partner wise, after awhile this will indicate approximately what each man does.

One thing about a production bonus incentive, is that you find fallers taking shortcuts and more risks in order to make those extra bucks.

This is why there was always a Bullbuck running around in the woods on the jobs I was on, unless they were the sleep in the pickup types:censored:. A good Bullbuck will keep everyone on their toes, safely, and keep them honest. We always had to staple a paper tag with a number on it, on the butt of each tree that we fell. That number corresponded with numbers on our daily scale sheets that we handed in every day for Columbia; so they could check your scale whenever...a good way to find out who is honestly producing. I worked for an outfit in Alaska that paid us by the square inches of the stump; You had to write your initials on the butt and the stump and a number that you wrote down later on your scale sheet.

 

[hammerlogging]

I know what each can do and there all very good cutters. But, inconsistent. I've seen plenty of their individual blocks and know they can lay it down, but I wan to see over a week or month.

Might look for other ways. Like, "if you get this block and that road cut you get a full day whether you're done at 1 or 4". As far as quality control goes, if the quality doesn't stay up, not doing the job, not finished, no leave early!

Just thinking about ways to keep it up.

 

[Curlycherry1]

When I did it we had to use a crayon and mark the butt. Kept everyone honest.

 

[056kid]

thinking about alot of your posts, I have never seen the type of crew that you talk about yours being anywhere around VA WV parts. Most crews are kinda red if you know what I mean.

It'ed be fun to work with ya for a few, Mabe next summer eh?

 

[hammerlogging]

I've decided to build up a productivity study, make a hooker not needed every so often to collect the data for each faller including me, and we can go over the interpreted data to show how unproductive delays hurt production, as well as what increases production. Its really quite simple, and hopefully will come off as a more positive and building experience than a babysitting type of scenario.

 

[tramp bushler]

A cuttin crew NEEDS a Bullbuck

Hammer , just no way to get around it ... When therre is reaal money being put on the ground every day . ...... Most of the bushlin outfits I worked for , you initilized the butt on merch logs / trees ,and put the tree # on stumps of snags ,they got a # and the initials .......... . Every Number got an initial , and the # ...... yOU WOULD ASK A GUY " HOW MANY NUMBERS YOU GET TODAY " .. In Southeast . someone cutting over 70 numbers a day usually needed lots of check scaleing , and QC to make sure he wasn,t tree lengthin ...... Some outfits had us clump our whips .Mech one log trees up to 10" small end and up to 40 ft long .. and clump all snage 10"-16 " .. Whips paid @ 150 bd ft snag 16s paid 400 bd ft cull scale ...... I get more wood on the ground day wagin as I,m not measuring diameters of everything and filling up my hat with numbers .... I just cut ..........

 

[oregoncutter]

Incentive ?

Hammer , just no way to get around it ... When therre is reaal money being put on the ground every day . ...... Most of the bushlin outfits I worked for , you initilized the butt on merch logs / trees ,and put the tree # on stumps of snags ,they got a # and the initials .......... . Every Number got an initial , and the # ...... yOU WOULD ASK A GUY " HOW MANY NUMBERS YOU GET TODAY " .. In Southeast . someone cutting over 70 numbers a day usually needed lots of check scaleing , and QC to make sure he wasn,t tree lengthin ...... Some outfits had us clump our whips .Mech one log trees up to 10" small end and up to 40 ft long .. and clump all snage 10"-16 " .. Whips paid @ 150 bd ft snag 16s paid 400 bd ft cull scale ...... I get more wood on the ground day wagin as I,m not measuring diameters of everything and filling up my hat with numbers .... I just cut ..........

I agree, I have worked on company cutting crews as well as mostly contracting jobs. Nothing wrong with being paid at a day rate or by the hour, as long as they are treated like any other employee, if they can't produce or meet qaulity goals ship em down the road. As far as financial incentives everyone can use more money, but some of the better rewards I recall were things like one old bulllbuck took 4 of us that finished a unit way ahead of schedule out for breakfast, gave us some attaboys, and pats on the back. I can remember that better than most the bonuses, and incentives I recieved in the past. I have worked jobs on waged cutting crews where we had to initial or paint logs, usually due to an issue like someone not putting trees down in lead for the yarder, or leaving tree lengths, or not bucking to scale. Incentives are great, but You have to take in alot of variables, (like say on a hillside and alot of trees that have a tendecy to want to lay opposite of the lead they need to lay in, and a guy has to pound alot of wedges it would be hard to compare his productivity to the guy with all the straight trees or ones that have a natural lean to lay out right). to to be fair about it, especially if the base pays don't come up much due to the expectation of incentives by the employer, and employees.