Competitor posing as a customer!!!!!!

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

Yesterday i was contacted by a guy who said he would like to know how much it would cost to grind 5 maple stumps. Since i never give a price over the phone for anything without seein it first, i told him i had to see it first.

He said well can you get me an appx. I said no means no. I knew he had to be a competitor and lo and behold he was. I called his bluff and said who do you do trees for buddy and he said himself? So i said well don't you own a grinder and he says well no? He goes on to say that he wanted to know if i'd do some subbing for him and i said NO because you just called and picked me just to see what i did charge!!!!

Funny thing is, the day he called was the day the new phone books went out!!!!With the new advertising!!!!!! Yeah sneaky, see what the other guy's up to????? He even said he was going to go see a ms clinger and i told him i met with her on monday and she made a verbal and written agreement with myself and i had her scheduled in a couple of days!!! He was then a real jerk and i told him that there is always plenty of work out there everywhere for everybody and the early bird gets the worm!!!!! Every time!!!!!

Guess you really gotta be careful these days. Never know who's on the other end of da line!!:censored:

 

[NC Firewood]

Applies elsewhere

I've been running into the same thing with firewood sales. Every weekend warrior with a long bed will call and find out what to charge.

 

[bendtrees]

That is classic, glad you were quick enough to call him out on it. I think I'll be doing the same with a real customer tomorrow. Already giving the fella a deal and he still wants it cheaper and cheaper. I should have picked up on the fact that he is simply one of those folks who has to feel like they won a bargaining duel. Tiresome.

 

[ropensaddle]

That is classic, glad you were quick enough to call him out on it. I think I'll be doing the same with a real customer tomorrow. Already giving the fella a deal and he still wants it cheaper and cheaper. I should have picked up on the fact that he is simply one of those folks who has to feel like they won a bargaining duel. Tiresome.

I have a proven tactic that works for those, I say my bid and when
they ask if I can do it for X, my price went to XXX. I don't usually
wind up with the job but don't want to work for nothing!

 

[Bigus Termitius]

I have a proven tactic that works for those, I say my bid and when
they ask if I can do it for X, my price went to XXX. I don't usually
wind up with the job but don't want to work for nothing!

LOL! That's my bit too! I love the look on people’s faces.

How can you go up in price? We are supposed to haggle.

You are wasting my time....time is money.

Naturally, I say all of this in the nicest possible way.

 

[Ole Farmerbuck]

I have a proven tactic that works for those, I say my bid and when
they ask if I can do it for X, my price went to XXX. I don't usually
wind up with the job but don't want to work for nothing!

Nothing to do with trees but the other day i sold my car. Old one. I told him 800, he said i'll give you 750. I said 900 if i leave the amp then. He bought it for 800. With no amp.

 

[lxt]

Must be the same everywhere? I just dont get it, if they`re new I understand but some of my calls come frome guys who have been in biz for a while are slow & seen me out working & wonder HOW?

I am usually a little questioning of any call that comes up "blocked"or "unknown" , especially when they start giving height, width & other measurements & then ask for a ball park, when I ask for their name & # they shy away & say I was just wondering what it would cost?

Sometimes I`ll just bluntly ask em are you price checking for someone? I have had a few tell me yes but not for who. Only in the tree world!!!


LXT........

 

[arbor pro]

Show me a business that isn't aware of what his competitors are doing or charging and I'll show you a business owner with his head in the sand.

I really don't see what the big deal is. I give out price estimates over the phone all the time. It's not worth my time to run across town to bid anything smaller than 40 or 50" diameter. I just tell them I'm going to verify the size when I get there and adjust my price accordingly so 'read your tapemeasure correctly'.

I know my competitors have called me - one did it just a couple days ago. I couteously gave the gal on the phone my price, thanked her for calling and let it go at that. I'm sure she was the wife of one of the business owners - I recongnized her voice from previous business conversations.

Do you really honestly think your competitors won't figure out what you're charging if they put their minds to it? Why worry about it? Charge a fair price, promote your services and your image - not your price, and don't sweat the other guys calling you up for info when you've probably had someone do the same for you...

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Only in the tree world!!!

Nah. Happens in other trades. Gotta keep on your toes.

 

[mckeetree]

We have had several other tree services call us over the years posing as customers. I recognized one guys voice a couple months ago and told him I knew who he was and to cut the crap. Two years ago the same guy was talking to me at a restaurant and figured out where my next bid was going to be so he left first and let the air out of my front tires so he could get there first.

 

[lxt]

Man, letting the air outta mans tires!! stunts like this are crazy, A guy in my area would take down my promotionals from a public rest. board & throw em away, I just happened to be eating the one day & witnessed it!!

The look on his face when he turned around & saw me!!, I kindly asked him infront of dozens of Rest. customers not to throw away my promotional items & to be a professional, etc.. I really wanted to Smack the snot outta him!! But listening to my wife I chose the route mentioned!!

This tactic showed the patrons I was a nice person (ha), the looks & verbal abuse he took from people was well worth it, even some of the other contractors having their morning coffee, said aloud "whatta bum" & jeered him hard!!

When I go to bid work I never "Bad Mouth" the other guy even though they have done so to me, I dont & have NEVER called a competitor for price checking!! I run my ads, meet the people, give my sales pitch along with the price & from there its "I get it" or "I dont".........either way its off to bid the next one!!


LXT................

 

[hermit63]

Sneaky or Smart

Show me a business that isn't aware of what his competitors are doing or charging and I'll show you a business owner with his head in the sand.

I really don't see what the big deal is. I give out price estimates over the phone all the time. It's not worth my time to run across town to bid anything smaller than 40 or 50" diameter. I just tell them I'm going to verify the size when I get there and adjust my price accordingly so 'read your tapemeasure correctly'.

I know my competitors have called me - one did it just a couple days ago. I couteously gave the gal on the phone my price, thanked her for calling and let it go at that. I'm sure she was the wife of one of the business owners - I recongnized her voice from previous business conversations.

Do you really honestly think your competitors won't figure out what you're charging if they put their minds to it? Why worry about it? Charge a fair price, promote your services and your image - not your price, and don't sweat the other guys calling you up for info when you've probably had someone do the same for you...

Over the years Ive had customers that want me to do other work for them that is not tree related. retaining walls, or small buildings,pavers, solar,ect. so ill call a couple of other companies to have a look at it and give me a bid. Then ill decide weather to do it or give it to them. Just acting as a GC for a valued customer and not wanting to learn it all the hard way. Most of the time there not shure if im the HO or not, and if they want a job ill get an honest bid. I'm thinking i shoud be charging for this service.

 

[hornett224]

you're too kind.

i'd have had to let the air out of his head for that one.

i have a few rules i live by in life.#1 don't mess with another man's woman

#2 don't mess with another man's vehicles and equipment.

 

[arbor pro]

There are two parts to establishing a viable price for work:

1) Figure out what you need to charge to cover overhead, labor & equipment and establish that price.

2) Then add on a profit margin based off of your own personal needs AND what the market in your area will bear. In order to find out what the market in your area will bear, you have to do a little research. It doesn't take much work to find out what your competitors are charging and you don't have to make 'fake' phone calls to do it. Just ask your customers what the competition is bidding for the same work and, usually, they're happy to offer up their prices.

Is this business tactic tacky? Maybe. Is it wrong? No. It's market research. Either way, I wouldn't get too riled up about it. I'll bet that if you think back to when you first got into business, you checked out what your competitors were charging.

I look at it this way: if I'm charging what I need to stay afloat and my price is what the market will bear, I'll get work. If my competition is repeatedly lowballing my price, he'll either get rich or end up out of business. There will ALWAYS be lowballers so, why worry about it? Let them play their game. You concentrate on the image of your business and not so much on price and you'll do jsut fine.

Remember, some people HATE Wal-mart while others LOVE it. "Wal-mart's lowball pricing is going to be the end of small business in American" we claim. Well, we've all probably shopped there because they have good prices. Do you think Wal-mart knows how to set their prices without doing market research? They may not call up the mom and pop stores and ask them over the phone what a toaster costs but, I'll bet they have plenty of other ways to find out so, who cares if they do use the phone - they're going to find out anyways...

As always this is JMO - don't be afraid to tell me that I'm full of ...

Better yet, call me up and tell me and, while you're at it, ask for my stump ginding prices. I'll be happy to oblige

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

Always ethical about it!

I have never put someone up to calling a competitor and checking prices. That's pretty low life. I do a lot of work for the city and i got that work because i do good work. It's fair, there's good presentation, and a lot of people know me. I do plenty of advertising but most work comes from word of mouth. To me that is a really good thing. I'm way to busy to keep up with the Jones'.LOL! Now if i saw a competitor taking down my stuff on the other hand, believe me,"we would have an old fashioned ars kicking contest"! Flat tires, well he would come out of it :censored: :censored: :censored: in a day or two i guess. Coma that is!

 

[arbor pro]

I have never put someone up to calling a competitor and checking prices. That's pretty low life. I do a lot of work for the city and i got that work because i do good work. It's fair, there's good presentation, and a lot of people know me. I do plenty of advertising but most work comes from word of mouth. To me that is a really good thing. I'm way to busy to keep up with the Jones'.LOL!

Price-calling from a competitor may be tacky but I woudn't go so far as to say the person is a low life. If you're so busy that you don't have time to pay attention to what your competition is doing, why does this topic even concern you? I'm not trying to argue with any of you - I'm just really confused as to why you guys get all riled up about this kind of thing?

If you really think market research and price aren't important at all, why not charge $1000 per stump minimum for your work? Afterall, if you do good work and have a good reputation, shouldn't your professionalism bear that kind of a price regardless of what the lowballers are charging?

We all know the answer. I doubt that any of you could charge $1000 per stump minimum and stay in busines for long. You charge what your company needs to charge to stay afloat BUT your price has to be within a range of what the market will bear. So, you do your research and find out what the market will bear. Some tactics might be a bit tacky but, I don't think I'd ever think of my competition as 'low life' just for checking me out. It's market research - that's all.

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

Just Plain Shady

Calling me and being honest and saying "hey man, work's a little slow now and noticed that you seem to stay pretty busy these days, got any pointers that could help me on the business end of things?",and calling me up and lying up front and being sneaky are two totally different things!!!

The way the guy approached me and was sneaky was very cowardly and sneaky! Be a man and just identify yourself and i'll be the most helpful that i can be to anyone. Maybe more than most, and less than others, but a friend spends $1,500 a month on advertising and trust me that is about 7.5% of his yearly income!! I spend about half of that, but needless to say we both stay covered up with work and havn't had to resort to these types of desperate measures!

I'm very aware of what the competition is doing when i drive through town, but that's there business and not mine!! The way i get my business, the way i run things, my training, and all the other stuf that goes into it has always been ethical,responsible, and well planned and always will.

You get out there everyday and make people happy, do good work, have a neat and professional image,etc. you will be busy and will not worry about what in the crap the other guy is doing! Heck the majority of times i'll tell you he isn't doin it to industry standards anyways. So there you go Arbor Pro, no offense given or taken, just plain, simple ,obvious fact that can be backed by many i suppose.

I'm more concerned with the way society is turning, fuel prices,terrorism, the war in iraq,etc.,etc.,etc.! Things that are worth worrying about. The business runs itself,well for the most part,Lol,Trevor

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Calling me and being honest and saying "hey man, work's a little slow now and noticed that you seem to stay pretty busy these days, got any pointers that could help me on the business end of things?",and calling me up and lying up front and being sneaky are two totally different things!!!

The way the guy approached me and was sneaky was very cowardly and sneaky!

Yep, in any business. There's a big difference between legitimate market research and deceitful spying.

 

[pdqdl]

Show me a business that isn't aware of what his competitors are doing or charging and I'll show you a business owner with his head in the sand.

I really don't see what the big deal is. I give out price estimates over the phone all the time. It's not worth my time to run across town to bid anything smaller than 40 or 50" diameter. I just tell them I'm going to verify the size when I get there and adjust my price accordingly so 'read your tapemeasure correctly'.

I know my competitors have called me - one did it just a couple days ago. I couteously gave the gal on the phone my price, thanked her for calling and let it go at that. I'm sure she was the wife of one of the business owners - I recongnized her voice from previous business conversations.

Do you really honestly think your competitors won't figure out what you're charging if they put their minds to it? Why worry about it? Charge a fair price, promote your services and your image - not your price, and don't sweat the other guys calling you up for info when you've probably had someone do the same for you...

I might have been able to say that better, but it would have taken a lot of work. I agree completely, and run my business just the same.

 

[mckeetree]

I have never put someone up to calling a competitor and checking prices. That's pretty low life. I do a lot of work for the city and i got that work because i do good work. It's fair, there's good presentation, and a lot of people know me. I do plenty of advertising but most work comes from word of mouth. To me that is a really good thing. I'm way to busy to keep up with the Jones'.LOL! Now if i saw a competitor taking down my stuff on the other hand, believe me,"we would have an old fashioned ars kicking contest"! Flat tires, well he would come out of it :censored: :censored: :censored: in a day or two i guess. Coma that is!

Yea, I felt like beating the sh#t outta him. He denied it but two people saw him do it.
And to make matters worse, he took the damn valve cores with him and I didn't realize that until I got a ride back to the shop to get an air tank and tried to air them up.