Competitor posing as a customer!!!!!!

[pdqdl]

Just one more comment on this

It's not really important whether your stump grinding competition knows what you are charging. If they are charging more than you, it's either because they want more money, or they can't work as cheaply. Either way, they are probably not going to become price competition.

In my experience, most contractors are not very willing to work for less. It's kind of like asking employees to take a pay cut, it doesn't happen too often.

If they are cheaper than you, they might realize that they are leaving money on the table, and raise their prices. This is good! Then they are less competition.

I have enough friends in the tree business that I just ask them what their prices are. It's easy to get a consensus.

 

[George G]

paranoia..A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I have enough friends in the tree business that I just ask them what their prices are. It's easy to get a consensus.

Sensible approach. Just be careful how you do that. Some crusading District Attorney might decide that consensus is collusion, and a high-publicity campaign against "these crooks" would be good for his political career.

 

[tree MDS]

Man, letting the air outta mans tires!! stunts like this are crazy, A guy in my area would take down my promotionals from a public rest. board & throw em away, I just happened to be eating the one day & witnessed it!!

The look on his face when he turned around & saw me!!, I kindly asked him infront of dozens of Rest. customers not to throw away my promotional items & to be a professional, etc.. I really wanted to Smack the snot outta him!! But listening to my wife I chose the route mentioned!!

This tactic showed the patrons I was a nice person (ha), the looks & verbal abuse he took from people was well worth it, even some of the other contractors having their morning coffee, said aloud "whatta bum" & jeered him hard!!

When I go to bid work I never "Bad Mouth" the other guy even though they have done so to me, I dont & have NEVER called a competitor for price checking!! I run my ads, meet the people, give my sales pitch along with the price & from there its "I get it" or "I dont".........either way its off to bid the next one!!


LXT................

I use reverse phychology and actually say good things about the other bidders (or bidder) as long as its true. Generally I dont badmouth, it looks pathetic.

 

[pdqdl]

Sensible approach. Just be careful how you do that. Some crusading District Attorney might decide that consensus is collusion, and a high-publicity campaign against "these crooks" would be good for his political career.

No way. There are a number of legal "tenets" which must be fulfilled before you could be prosecuted. First of all would be need to prove that there was a criminal intent. I can't see that happening unless someone put in writing something like "let's all charge $XXX for this kind of work".

I used to work for a veterinarian, and they had regular "association" meetings. We (the hired help) called them price fixing meetings. They consulted with some good attorneys and were very careful to learn what they could and could not do.

There is very low risk of any criminal charges from asking a competitor what they charge for a certain type of service. When they begin to negotiate a mutual price of what they will both charge: that's when the crime begins.

 

[WolverineMarine]

We have had several other tree services call us over the years posing as customers. I recognized one guys voice a couple months ago and told him I knew who he was and to cut the crap. Two years ago the same guy was talking to me at a restaurant and figured out where my next bid was going to be so he left first and let the air out of my front tires so he could get there first.

I have to agree with the masses here..if some jerk had the nerve to let the air out of my tire..for ONE :censored: stump removal bid..he's got some bad karma commin his way..with no specified actions needing to be described..I'd show the fella thats a bad business practice..and that that kinda behavior won't be tolerated if you catch my drift...

 

[arbor pro]

paranoia..A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

Sensible approach. Just be careful how you do that. Some crusading District Attorney might decide that consensus is collusion, and a high-publicity campaign against "these crooks" would be good for his political career.

No way. There are a number of legal "tenets" which must be fulfilled before you could be prosecuted. First of all would be need to prove that there was a criminal intent. I can't see that happening unless someone put in writing something like "let's all charge $XXX for this kind of work".

I used to work for a veterinarian, and they had regular "association" meetings. We (the hired help) called them price fixing meetings. They consulted with some good attorneys and were very careful to learn what they could and could not do.

There is very low risk of any criminal charges from asking a competitor what they charge for a certain type of service. When they begin to negotiate a mutual price of what they will both charge: that's when the crime begins.

well put pd.
i know guys in the construction business that have been jailed for bid rigging. I even know a couple of guys that have done it with trees and havent been caught. just talking with your competitors over lunch isnt going to land you in jail.

having 5 guys sit down and plan to have 4 high bids and 1 low( but still high- hence the rigging part), then alternating who gets the low bid is bid rigging. if done enough a pattern emerges that someone notices; who then brings it to the attention of you friendly neighborhood DA.

One guy who still owns a highway paving company got about 10 years for this. Highway jobs however normally range from 1 to 50 million dollars. And that money comes from the state and federal reserves. so you can see why the government might get so upset about such things. Im sure a local DA and judge would be a little easier on tree guys due to the fact that we dont run million dollar jobs. HOWEVER, you can just about bet your tushy that if some guys got caught doing that to a township (once again government money) they would be up the proverbial creek with no trolling motor.

 

[pdqdl]

well put pd.
... got about 10 years for this. Highway jobs however normally range from 1 to 50 million dollars. And that money comes from the state and federal reserves. so you can see why the government might get so upset about such things. Im sure a local DA and judge would be a little easier on tree guys due to the fact that we dont run million dollar jobs. HOWEVER, you can just about bet your tushy that if some guys got caught doing that to a township (once again government money) they would be up the proverbial creek with no trolling motor.

Yeah. Funny thing about prosecution. It seems to occur most often when it is easy for the prosecutor, gets fame for the prosecutor, or has a bunch of people upset, esp. if they are "important". Common, dirty little crimes go unpunished.

My biggest beef is the illegal dumping and vandalism. Absolutely no attempt to prosecute in our area. I have even caught them, held the crooks for the police along with their truck and dumped debris, I got the property owner to call the police and state that he would prosecute, and the the case was still dropped for "lack of evidence". The guy I caught even admitted to the cops that he was dumping the stuff there! It took the police about one hour to get someone in the administration to tell them what to do with the case before they would even arrest the guy.

This rolls back to the start of the thread. Letting air out of somebody's tire... Try to get a prosecutor on that, even if you had a good video. If it was a cop car or a politician's, that would be a different story.

 

[nytreeman]

We have had several other tree services call us over the years posing as customers. I recognized one guys voice a couple months ago and told him I knew who he was and to cut the crap. Two years ago the same guy was talking to me at a restaurant and figured out where my next bid was going to be so he left first and let the air out of my front tires so he could get there first.

I have had some calls that I figured were competitors calling,the # being blocked and asking for a "rough idea" what it would cost so I just tell them no way I can tell without seeing the tree,price could vary a huge amount depending where it is,can I get to it ?etc.I just say I'll come take a look the real customers say ok the others hangup or say well I'll get back to you then.It just makes me laugh
HOWEVER........some competitor screwing with my truck,even just letting the air out of the tires?????? I'd sure have a hard time with that believe me,thats way over the line and I'd be sure to show him how I felt on the issue!!!

 

[strongback]

Price Shopping

I suppose it's a little different in the tree business but in my equipment rental business, it's a part of life. Your competitors have what amounts to basically the same products as you do and (especially new businesses) call around to find out how they should be pricing them. The only problem I have with this tactic is that they invariably try cut the bottom out of the collective market barrel. Unfourtunately, for them, they don't have the experience to know that we set our prices where they are for good reason! We've already done the math on insurance, payroll, advertising and profit margin and we know our prices will keep us profitable.

We've seen more than a couple companies come and go trying to "run us out of business" by undercutting our prices. I let them take all of the low budget, more trouble than their worth, penny pinching, what kind of discount can I get, should probably be spending their money on other things anyway, customers. In the meantime I keep ALL of the customers who value quality service over budget prices. We always know when one of them has gone belly-up because we will be inundated with calls from the types of customers we'd prefer not to have.

Yes, we used the price checking tactic when we first got started. We used it again when we moved the business into a different market. We started posting all of our prices online and that has kept down the competitor pricing calls.

I'd recommend that anyone who is terribly bothered by getting shopped do what we do when we don't get a warm and fuzzy from a particular customer. Give them a ridiculous price. Crazy high or impossibly low. Either way the data isn't any good to them and if they try to match either one it'll mean more business for you in the long run.

S/F
Tony
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I was so proud of my one saw when I got it (at a great price) until I checked out the signature blocks around here. Now I realize that I also need 4 more (much larger) saws a splitter, a skid steer, a crane and a semi with flatbed trailer.

Husqvarna 455 rancher