Crane removals....

[oldirty]

When he is runnin' it, I usually don't have to stop a cut to motion the operator, he can read what is going on from the ground almost as good as I can from watching the kerf. At most I just slow down a little to make sure he sees what I see, he adjusts and I keep cutting.

best feeling in the world is not having to worry about what the crane guy is doing. you can feel it when your cutting. but its totally up to you to not get the saw pinched. you gotta really be intune with whats going on in the kerf.


my good buddy had a crane flip on him moments after the pick was made. he had to unclip and dive out of the tree into a yew bush.....the wood and stick landed next to him.

that would be the worst feeling in the world regarding tree work and cranes.

 

[Wortown Mick]

this right here is sooooooo very important as well. the right cut in the tree makes all the difference in the world.

A local company to remain nameless recently shock loaded a crane and snapped both outriggers off the side.. over she went. Might not be as recent as a few yrs prior but I was hearing about it. Cant put an accurate date on it. There is just no reason to shock load a crane, lol


Im not sure how good a normal 2 way would suit itsself to tree work. I mean everyones had the moment when the guy in the airs met with shrugs or faux "OK" only to find out the message didnt get across.
A normal crew operating everyday developes ESP and knows whats needed when where and why. On a crane job with an unfamiliar operator communication starts being more important.


I was thinking maybe some throat microphones like they use in the military would be cool , heheh. Maybe that or a decent 2 way.. a quality system with a good cancelling feature.

No effective cancelling = a walkie talkie making a crater from a frustrated climber.

 

[460magnumMOD]

Yep, with an aerial and a crane, you at least need two ground guys. When things go smooth you can keep the chipper awfully busy.

What kind of comm set-up do you use? That is an area that we are lacking. My partner and I have hand signals down pretty good but sometimes you come up against something that is better explained with words. And I think it is a pain to yell down 55' over the sound of the chipper, crane and bucket truck.

I'm not sure of the particulars of the units. They're owned buy the crane operator. one of the head sets have husky on it, another peltor and nothing on the others. They have a button on the ear muff to turn the mic on and off. Just need to make sure mic is off when running saw or next to chipper. you can still hear everything just can't talk. I can find out from our crane guy and post it up. Most of our crane jobs are far reach or big pieces. The crane has a 148ft. reach (without the jib) and its usually fully extended. It's nice for the climber and crane operator to be able to discuss where to cut, how big to make the picks, where to rig from, ect. so not to overload the crane and tip it, or risk harm or damage to anything or anyone. One of our recent jobs was a large oak a little over 100' from where the crane was. We had to make real small pics and rig good and tight since they were swinging over a in ground pool and a 700,000 dollar house. That far away clear communication is key. I'm not the best with heights yet so the joke with my boss and the crane operator is that they're gunna hook me to the crane and take it all the way up. I may :censored: my pants but it just may work.

 

[custom8726]

3 companies ive worked for had them.


i'm thinking ive seen a few cranes running around here. some good looking ones and a few i wouldnt touch if i got double time to climb on.


its a tough expense for a company owner to own a crane but an even bigger one for someone to rent out.

if you got the work though, even though the expense is so high, you can really bang out the jobs.

what you need though is a good operator. sure anyone can pull levers but as far as tree work goes the best operators were once climbers themselves in my opinion.

Most Every one around here rents crane/operators by the hr. I learned crane/tree work with an old arlo 100' sign crane. In a way its a great way to learn because you really learn how to place those straps correctly and also cut in precarios situation's due to the limited lifting capacities. Now a days its 20+ toner's or better. We rent/lease 3 different cranes on a regular basis (atleast once a week) Ranging fron 23 to 40 ton's with 110-157' of boom (NO JIBS FOR TREE WORK) We have an ALTEC bucket and do a good amount of tree work the old school way but 90% of the time if we can utilize a crane we do. In and out and on to the next job makes more mony then spending 8hrs (without a crane) on a 2hr crane job to save $400.00 bucks. Do you guys use 2 straps generally? I always do. If for no other reason then a back up its a good idea, you can also utilize the same techniques for cutting and picking you guys described above with 2 straps at say 2 and 4 o-clock with the crane picking from 9 O-clock.

 

[Ghillie]

I'm not sure of the particulars of the units. They're owned buy the crane operator. one of the head sets have husky on it, another peltor and nothing on the others. They have a button on the ear muff to turn the mic on and off. Just need to make sure mic is off when running saw or next to chipper. you can still hear everything just can't talk. I can find out from our crane guy and post it up. Most of our crane jobs are far reach or big pieces. The crane has a 148ft. reach (without the jib) and its usually fully extended. It's nice for the climber and crane operator to be able to discuss where to cut, how big to make the picks, where to rig from, ect. so not to overload the crane and tip it, or risk harm or damage to anything or anyone. One of our recent jobs was a large oak a little over 100' from where the crane was. We had to make real small pics and rig good and tight since they were swinging over a in ground pool and a 700,000 dollar house. That far away clear communication is key. I'm not the best with heights yet so the joke with my boss and the crane operator is that they're gunna hook me to the crane and take it all the way up. I may :censored: my pants but it just may work.

I would be interested in seeing what models the units are. I was just looking at fire fox throat mics that can be used with most low cost GMRS radios.

Looks like a good set-up and I can use them while hiking or hunting also. But if there are other units that would work better on the job, I would like to look.

And as far as taking you for a ride on the crane........ It has been my experience that you won't be any better with heights and your pants will be full of :censored: .....Lol...

 

[Ghillie]

Most Every one around here rents crane/operators by the hr. I learned crane/tree work with an old arlo 100' sign crane. In a way its a great way to learn because you really learn how to place those straps correctly and also cut in precarios situation's due to the limited lifting capacities. Now a days its 20+ toner's or better. We rent/lease 3 different cranes on a regular basis (atleast once a week) Ranging fron 23 to 40 ton's with 110-157' of boom (NO JIBS FOR TREE WORK) We have an ALTEC bucket and do a good amount of tree work the old school way but 90% of the time if we can utilize a crane we do. In and out and on to the next job makes more mony then spending 8hrs (without a crane) on a 2hr crane job to save $400.00 bucks. Do you guys use 2 straps generally? I always do. If for no other reason then a back up its a good idea, you can also utilize the same techniques for cutting and picking you guys described above with 2 straps at say 2 and 4 o-clock with the crane picking from 9 O-clock.

Don't usually use two chokers. Unless it is special circumstance, ie. trying to keep a y shaped branch from flipping. I guess we never felt the need. Do you use cables or nylon straps?

Our crane is around 65' without the jib, (I've never used it) and now that you mention it, I am not sure of the rating on it weight wise.

Our jobs are usually in tight spots that you can't take big pieces. Untill you get to the trunk.

 

[Wortown Mick]

Im not the one setting the chokers so Im not gonna comment.. But Ill say ive never seen two slings set in the same place, above Y's as mentioned yes.

Maybe the helmet communicator set combined with some throat mikes?

People can talk clear in choppers hahaha, Im sure a chipper & chainsaw are easily worked around.

 

[oldirty]

rarely use 2 straps unless the wood is huge. we use 2 straps though all the time if its we are picking a multi stem top or branch were you can put the straps on a couple different branches and get a nice even pick.


and if the stick isnt long enough we put the jib on, not too often though. cant pick much and you sure as hell gotta make sure that you dont stress the jib with a bad cut. everything gotta be real smooth when the jib is on.


custom....for the amount you use a crane can you justify buying one or does your guy make it worth your while to keep renting? out of curiousity i ask.

i think ours goes out for a G a day. i dont run it so i dont know and never thought to ask. i had to "rent" ours (my boss') one day for a side job and he threw me a bone for 400$ to use it for like 6 hrs. which was reeeal nice of him. i think he gave me that price though because i paid the operater by climbing one of his side jobs so there wasnt an operator cost to me using it.

worked out good.

 

[treemandan]

Nice work Hulkster.

 

[treemandan]

I don't know if it was mentioned but using 2 straps while picking a trunk section will even the load and will come off smoover than just one. Not saying you can't just use one.
As far as using a strap for spin control I just use a rope sling made a climbing line, of course its not a pirimary.
I have used as many as 3. I had to have the cable pulled tight a few times to insure equality all around but it was real sweet. Pretty much saved 3 picks.
I don't like cable at all. No way, I go for web straps. Lift all.

 

[Ghillie]

I don't know if it was mentioned but using 2 straps while picking a trunk section will even the load and will come off smoover than just one. Not saying you can't just use one.
As far as using a strap for spin control I just use a rope sling made a climbing line, of course its not a pirimary.
I have used as many as 3. I had to have the cable pulled tight a few times to insure equality all around but it was real sweet. Pretty much saved 3 picks.
I don't like cable at all. No way, I go for web straps. Lift all.

When I use one strap on a trunk section, I take into account where the ball is and which side is going to come up first. Start my cut on that side and ask for more lift if the kerf starts to close. Just enough to keep the kerf open. Much more and it will start to barberchair on you.

When we are lifting the last trunk section off the ground, I will use felling wedges to keep the bar from pinching (usually three to four on a 3-4' trunk) but I only use the wedges sparingly when cutting in the bucket or in the tree.

I tried them a couple of times but found that you can't tell what your pick is going to do because the wedge is holding it open. You could have way too much lift on a piece and not know it untill it snaps and jumps a couple of feet off the tree....... Another lesson learned!!!



Thanks Dan.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Gotsa 'nuther question...

When taking a pick with the crane what weight do you try to hit for safety? i was thinking 2/3 of the maximum pick amount for whatever angle the boom is at. Still too much or would it be fine? Between the crane guys weight at angle charts and my weight per diameter charts ( thanks sherrill! ) we planned the majority of the tree out already.

 

[Ghillie]

When taking a pick with the crane what weight do you try to hit for safety? i was thinking 2/3 of the maximum pick amount for whatever angle the boom is at. Still too much or would it be fine? Between the crane guys weight at angle charts and my weight per diameter charts ( thanks sherrill! ) we planned the majority of the tree out already.

You know.... I hate to admit it..... but we haven't used a chart very often.

I guess we have a feel for the size....

But that said, 2/3rds sounds like a good figure to me depending on the cut.

Maybe a little less if there is a chance the load is going to swing or invert. That would give the CO a little leeway if he has to move it quick to get it away from you or other objects.

It would also depend on the CO. I would stay in a comfortable range untill you get a feel for how he (or she) is going to handle the load.


Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else with a crane that is as dynamic as tree work.

 

[Blakesmaster]

You know.... I hate to admit it..... but we haven't used a chart very often.

I guess we have a feel for the size....

But that said, 2/3rds sounds like a good figure to me depending on the cut.

Maybe a little less if there is a chance the load is going to swing or invert. That would give the CO a little leeway if he has to move it quick to get it away from you or other objects.

It would also depend on the CO. I would stay in a comfortable range untill you get a feel for how he (or she) is going to handle the load.


Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else with a crane that is as dynamic as tree work.

Thanks, boss. The crane work I've been a part of neither the climber nor operator looked like much of the charts and book types, it was more instinctual for them. The only reason I'm bringing them out is because it's my first gig and I want to make sure nothing will happen. I doubt we'll have any issue with twisting, I'm only bringing in the crane so the 100 feet or so of spar left after we limb and top can be lifted out the tree and onto our trailers in millable lengths.

 

[Ghillie]

Thanks, boss. The crane work I've been a part of neither the climber nor operator looked like much of the charts and book types, it was more instinctual for them. The only reason I'm bringing them out is because it's my first gig and I want to make sure nothing will happen. I doubt we'll have any issue with twisting, I'm only bringing in the crane so the 100 feet or so of spar left after we limb and top can be lifted out the tree and onto our trailers in millable lengths.

Fortune favors the prepared.....(or something like that!)

Sounds like you are ahead of the game. You are getting pictures....right?

 

[Ghillie]

Thanks, boss. The crane work I've been a part of neither the climber nor operator looked like much of the charts and book types, it was more instinctual for them. The only reason I'm bringing them out is because it's my first gig and I want to make sure nothing will happen. I doubt we'll have any issue with twisting, I'm only bringing in the crane so the 100 feet or so of spar left after we limb and top can be lifted out the tree and onto our trailers in millable lengths.

I guess you could say we have looked at the charts enough to know what we need to look at the chart for. If we are getting close to safe load limits.

Not that we don't use them or have them (one in the crane and two in the bucket truck).

 

[Blakesmaster]

Fortune favors the prepared.....(or something like that!)

Sounds like you are ahead of the game. You are getting pictures....right?

You betcha I am! If I get the job... Not only will this be a blast, landing it will take a load off my mind in case something big breaks this winter. Like to have that lil cushion in the bank just in case.

 

[treemandan]

John Hoadley outta West Chester showed me this cut. You can play with the weight as you cut and it stays in the cradle, it comes off clean but you have to know where its going. You can hide behind the higher angled back cut.

John had an articulating crane and wanted you to use two 1/2 lines off the hook instead of straps... which has its pros and cons. Just gimme the dam choke strap. Aside from his crane being limited and his brother being a schmuck they did allright with it. I like the big boys that look like barges. All that bending in the jib makes me wonder on those articulating cranes.

 

[treemandan]

The 2 stumps on the right in the pic. The backcut is angled down to meet the level face cut. The face cut is about 2/3 the dia or more deep. The saw won't get caught up, The Dan hates that and if you want to see a full grown man toss a hissy fit you meet see me do it but only once in a very blue moon. I do get a kick out of hollering to and at everybody and make them run around like they are going to be able to actually help me get the saw out. I want to make them feel they are to blame anyway.
Anyway, even if the backcut can't be manipulated all the way through or you feel better with some holding wood so you can bail, the crane should be able to break it loose with smoovness.
I use notches on the more outstrected limbs or if its to dead for that I do use another sling.
I finally got the proper rigging to tie into the crane and is strongly advised for under a hunge

 

[Ghillie]

Riding the Pill

Attached below is an article on "riding the pill" from TCI magazine.

Here is the whole archived issue of the magazine the article came from.

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