Crappy Stihl Cylinder - Looks like ChiCom Garbage!!!

[edisto]

2010 EPA is hammering down, the dealers all know it, are you a dealer??

Nope. Know how you can tell? Because I would never look at that cylinder and say "if it runs it's ok by me."

 

[THALL10326]

"Hello Kettle? Yeah hi. This is Pot. I was just calling to say you're black."

Ed I can't beleive it, I just looked over at your avatar, I shoulda known,LOL

 

[weimedog]

I appreciate your expertise on this subject. I've worked with castings a fair amount( both machining them while in my apprenticeship, and later building molds) and while I have nowhere the qualifications that you do, it has been my experience that there is not usually just one (Being a Stihlhead, I'd love to believe that) Having not examined the cylinder myself, it is difficult to determine whether it is the casting, or the machining that has gone bad. If the casting itself is at fault, it should not have been accepted, and likely the whole lot was this way (wonder why they didn't use lost foam molding?). If it was the machining, then yeah, in the best certified companies, one can get away. Also, as it has been pointed out, this is not the only Stihl model that had similar cylinder issues. (I believe someone also mentioned problems with the 460 cylinders)

Finally got back to this point and read your response! A fast moving thread...isn't it?

Actually you are right, the setup process would produce several parts and as the process is massaged back to spec those parts evolve to (hopefully) a better quality. And then there is that point where the engineer or setup person decides the process is producing "good enough" quality (Within a spec) and starts moving those parts into the down stream manufactuing processes...its possible a few marginal ones moved thru...and the QA process down stream may have caught some and possibly more than one made it thru to production.

Tools like go/no go "thread guages" where there is a strict dimentional standard tolerance that is an absolute requirement probably aren't applied to parts like these...my bet is at some point its a visual thing.

It looks to me that the issues around the port are a result of the fixturing&finishing process not capable of dealing with the dimensional variations produced by that casting. Without knowing exactly how Stihl does this..this is pure speculation.

(If my speculation is correct, changing suppliers and dealing with the dimensional differences would be manufacturing engineering hell...)

 

[THALL10326]

Nope. Know how you can tell? Because I would never look at that cylinder and say "if it runs it's ok by me."

Aww but if you bought that saw and it ran fine would you take it apart, if yes why, I wanna hear this, lay it on me Ed..

 

[spike60]

Whether or not a cylinder was made by Mahle, and in what country, is certainly not the whole story.

Stihl doesn't use Mahle cylinders on their cutoff saws, and I think it's been that way for a long time, (Tommy, is that correct?). But Stihl cutoffs are generally thought to be the best cutoffs on the market by most people, and I would agree with that opinion, and obviously I'm from the other side of the tracks.

As for Mahle on Huskys, I really don't think that there are very many non-XP Huskys that use Mahle cylinders. 365 does. 359 doesn't and maybe this is why I see a lot of toasted 359's. (I realize I'm giving some ammo to the Stihl guys, but as most of you know, I'm not shy about criticizing my own brand when I see a reason to) I don't really know where these non-Mahle cylinders come from. I do know that Husky does own plants that make cylinders, but I really don't know where thay are located. I wouldn't think that any of the homeowner saws have Mahle cylinders on them from either Husky or Stihl.

I have hammered Stihl a couple of times in this thread, but I just want to clarify what my specific gripe with them is: I think that when you are talking about a pro saw, be it a 260, 460, or it could be a 346 or 372, EVERYBODY who buys one deserves to get the "good" cylinder. It's as simple as that, and I don't think that's a point that anyone can dispute. There should really only BE one cylinder. It's wrong to mix in lesser quality cylinders in order to keep the production line going, and this is what I thought was a bit of a slimey move on their part. It's unfair to the guys who end up with those saws.

 

[THALL10326]

I disagree. What the OP has said is that others have been complaining about the same type of quality in Stihl cylinder castings over the past year, and at least one of those has come on here and verified that fact.

While the quality of that cylinder is certainly at issue, I think there are broader issues that this thread is dealing with as well.


.

You think, broader issues, such as, I gotta hear this, tell me..

 

[parrisw]

What was the question Parris?

I guess you missed it then. Probably way back now. you answered my first one about installing a cheaper cylinder for the same price, by dancing around nicely, saying its not necessarally a cheaper cylinder, and you didn't know so couldn't answer.

I then asked if you thought it was fair to install a lower quality cylinder on some of the saws and charge the same price.

 

[Woodie]

You think, broader issues, such as, I gotta hear this, tell me..

I think that when you are talking about a pro saw, be it a 260, 460, or it could be a 346 or 372, EVERYBODY who buys one deserves to get the "good" cylinder. It's as simple as that, and I don't think that's a point that anyone can dispute. There should really only BE one cylinder. It's wrong to mix in lesser quality cylinders in order to keep the production line going, and this is what I thought was a bit of a slimey move on their part. It's unfair to the guys who end up with those saws.

I then asked if you thought it was fair to install a lower quality cylinder on some of the saws and charge the same price.

I've stated the broader issues several times, but these two have hit the nail pretty squarely on the head.


.

 

[spike60]

Spike that 346 , what plant did my cylinder come out of,LOLOLOLOL

At this point I couldn't be sure what planet it came from. LOL

 

[Gologit]

Whether or not a cylinder was made by Mahle, and in what country, is certainly not the whole story.

Stihl doesn't use Mahle cylinders on their cutoff saws, and I think it's been that way for a long time, (Tommy, is that correct?). But Stihl cutoffs are generally thought to be the best cutoffs on the market by most people, and I would agree with that opinion, and obviously I'm from the other side of the tracks.

As for Mahle on Huskys, I really don't think that there are very many non-XP Huskys that use Mahle cylinders. 365 does. 359 doesn't and maybe this is why I see a lot of toasted 359's. (I realize I'm giving some ammo to the Stihl guys, but as most of you know, I'm not shy about criticizing my own brand when I see a reason to) I don't really know where these non-Mahle cylinders come from. I do know that Husky does own plants that make cylinders, but I really don't know where thay are located. I wouldn't think that any of the homeowner saws have Mahle cylinders on them from either Husky or Stihl.

I have hammered Stihl a couple of times in this thread, but I just want to clarify what my specific gripe with them is: I think that when you are talking about a pro saw, be it a 260, 460, or it could be a 346 or 372, EVERYBODY who buys one deserves to get the "good" cylinder. It's as simple as that, and I don't think that's a point that anyone can dispute. There should really only BE one cylinder. It's wrong to mix in lesser quality cylinders in order to keep the production line going, and this is what I thought was a bit of a slimey move on their part. It's unfair to the guys who end up with those saws.

Well said.

 

[blsnelling]

Come on Brad, did you take that 180 of yours back to the dealer and demand a new piston and rod? Did you write Stihl and complain about the quality going downhill? Did you stop buying stihl products because of that? Don't give me the excuse that it was a homeowner saw, according to everyone here, it is a stihl and you paid a premium price for it, so it must be superior to other companies. If you didn't do all of that, and stihl buy stihl stuff, I might have to call you a hypocrite. If you really don't like the quality, don't work on them or buy any of their stuff. That is the only real way to voice you dissatisfaction.

I've done exactly that. I won't own, nor will I recommend a Stihl homeowner saw. The design is inferior and there are better options on the market from competitors for similiar money.

 

[edisto]

Aww but if you bought that saw and it ran fine would you take it apart, if yes why, I wanna hear this, lay it on me Ed..

Absolutely I would, and I have, and I will. Before I got here I did it with our forestry saws to clean up the ports and have a look inside. Now, thanks to Jennings and Bell, I won't stop with cleaning them.

Almost every firearm I have was well built, but not expensive because it wasn't "tuned"...they all come apart too. Just about everything I own comes apart and usually sooner rather than later. I make my own speaker cables and interconnects, and they go on before the power hits any of my AV equipment.

I look for, and appreciate quality. I make improvements that I might not even notice, but knowing they are there helps me sleep at night.

And I don't see what my avatar has with your inability to form a coherent argument. If you look at the signature you'll see a pretty Stihl too.

 

[weimedog]

Wrong. It is not a warranty issue if there is no complaint about the performance of the saw. If there was a complaint about the performance of the saw and it went in for repair under the warranty timeframe and the cylinder was the pointed out as the culprit, yes it would be a warranty issue and corrected no questions asked. None of that had taken place with the saw. There may be a defect hiding in my Chevy Imapala enigine but if its running fine it can stay in there. If I take it apart on my own looking Chevy will tell me to take a hike, no warranty.

That other stuff your talking about it way over my head and most likely everyone elses, sorry Weime, I just enforce warranties, repairs and sell..

Where are you taking this? It is Not a warrantee issue if a lousy casting produces performance issues and that is brought to the dealers attention? I don't think you are saying this....I think you are being typical Thall...taking a literal interperatation of every letter written around and about THIS particular saw. We can have a symantic war if you want...you can go argue with..you! . Its not important to me. The bit level word smithing part that is. (You confused yet?) I'm simply interested in the fundemental issue of Stihl's quality standards and the dealers responses to problem parts.

The story as I understand it around this particular saw is it DID have performance issues and was sent to a performance shop instead of a dealer to rectify the situation..I understand that, and therefore because of WHERE it went, that particular saw isn't a warrentee issue. A literal interperatation of this particular case....

The issue in my mind is generically is this a typical Stihl casting and you have said "no it isn't". Question No. 1 answered to my satisfaction. I wanted to know WHAT YOU, a Stihl dealer; would do if you saw a cylinder such as this when debugging a saw..you implied you would consider it a warrantee issue...question number two answered to my satifaction and I can go on with my life knowing Stihl is Stihl a good company...

 

[THALL10326]

Whether or not a cylinder was made by Mahle, and in what country, is certainly not the whole story.

Stihl doesn't use Mahle cylinders on their cutoff saws, and I think it's been that way for a long time, (Tommy, is that correct?). But Stihl cutoffs are generally thought to be the best cutoffs on the market by most people, and I would agree with that opinion, and obviously I'm from the other side of the tracks.

As for Mahle on Huskys, I really don't think that there are very many non-XP Huskys that use Mahle cylinders. 365 does. 359 doesn't and maybe this is why I see a lot of toasted 359's. (I realize I'm giving some ammo to the Stihl guys, but as most of you know, I'm not shy about criticizing my own brand when I see a reason to) I don't really know where these non-Mahle cylinders come from. I do know that Husky does own plants that make cylinders, but I really don't know where thay are located. I wouldn't think that any of the homeowner saws have Mahle cylinders on them from either Husky or Stihl.

I have hammered Stihl a couple of times in this thread, but I just want to clarify what my specific gripe with them is: I think that when you are talking about a pro saw, be it a 260, 460, or it could be a 346 or 372, EVERYBODY who buys one deserves to get the "good" cylinder. It's as simple as that, and I don't think that's a point that anyone can dispute. There should really only BE one cylinder. It's wrong to mix in lesser quality cylinders in order to keep the production line going, and this is what I thought was a bit of a slimey move on their part. It's unfair to the guys who end up with those saws.

Good post Spike but slimy is a strong word so I will counter do you think re-labeling products is a slimy practice too? Is it not deicieving to buy something you think is a Husky when it is not??

 

[weimedog]

Good post Spike but slimy is a strong word so I will counter do you think re-labeling products is a slimy practice too? Is it not deicieving to buy something you think is a Husky when it is not??

Because something another brand does isn't right doesn't make it right for Stihl to play the bait and switch game...if that is even happening!

 

[parrisw]

Good post Spike but slimy is a strong word so I will counter do you think re-labeling products is a slimy practice too? Is it not deicieving to buy something you think is a Husky when it is not??

Did ya miss it again??? Or chose not to answer?

 

[THALL10326]

Where are you taking this? It is Not a warrantee issue if a lousy casting produces performance issues and that is brought to the dealers attention? I don't think you are saying this....I think you are being typical Thall...taking a literal interperatation of every letter written around and about THIS particular saw. We can have a symantic war if you want...you can go argue with..you! . Its not important to me. The bit level word smithing part that is. (You confused yet?) I'm simply interested in the fundemental issue of Stihl's quality standards and the dealers responses to problem parts.

The story as I understand it around this particular saw is it DID have performance issues and was sent to a performance shop instead of a dealer to rectify the situation..I understand that, and therefore because of WHERE it went, that particular saw isn't a warrentee issue. A literal interperatation of this particular case....

The issue in my mind is generically is this a typical Stihl casting and you have said "no it isn't". Question No. 1 answered to my satisfaction. I wanted to know WHAT YOU, a Stihl dealer; would do if you saw a cylinder such as this when debugging a saw..you implied you would consider it a warrantee issue...question number two answered to my satifaction and I can go on with my life knowing Stihl is Stihl a good company...

The saw was taken to be modded, for profit, not to a dealer over a complaint. I'm on the phone Weiemdog, I'm one handed right now,grrr

 

[parrisw]

The saw was taken to be modded, for profit, not to a dealer over a complaint. I'm n the phone Weiemdog, I'm one handed right now,grrr

But it wasn't modded yet??? So WTF?

Why no answer question yet??? MR TWO SHOES

 

[weimedog]

The saw was taken to be modded, for profit, not to a dealer over a complaint. I'm on the phone Weiemdog, I'm one handed right now,grrr

HOW a defective part is fond shouldn't matter..I have to crash..we are in different time zones and it IS mother day...G-nite all...

 

[ropensaddle]

Good post Spike but slimy is a strong word so I will counter do you think re-labeling products is a slimy practice too? Is it not deicieving to buy something you think is a Husky when it is not??

Thall I know you asked him but I must say my opinion. Yes I did not like the move but I also know if I buy anything in Lowes it is not going to be true. Still does not change the fact that cheap poulans were sold with husky paint. I will say I took one apart and the cylinder looked much better than the one in this post. I only buy Xp husky's so unless they start cutting corners and using cheap junk instead of quality pro parts I will remain loyal!