CS Milling 101, Hints tips and tricks

[gnef]

Nice work on the Al rails.
When I made my log rails out of HD Unistrut back in 2007 I looked into using Al extrusions but the cost was more than twice that for the Unistrut and I had no idea how they would stand up to the weight. Now that I'm heading into my late 60's my knees would no longer like me repeatedly lifting those HD Instructs iso a set of Al rails sounds more and more appealing but I cant justify them as I hardly ever use mu big CS mills these days.

The design could be modified by adding adjustable width and brackets that grab the end of the log like this.
The bolts have printed ends which bite into the log end hold the rials very firmly.
View attachment 1001857

The weight was definitely one of the reasons I went with the aluminum rather than something more rigid like your unistrut (I've also seen some that use steel square tubing - now that is heavy!). The 2040 that I used for the rails is really quite light, and I bought some v-slot handles so it is really easy to carry and move around. They do sag if I am bridging over the entire 4m, but as long as I have some supports throughout, they are more than rigid enough. If I need more rigidity, I can try going with 2060, but I am quite happy with how it is working with the 2040.

Adding adjustable width could be an interesting idea, but I'd have to figure out the bridging, since it would really only be supported at each end of the log, and for long logs, there would definitely be some sagging. I'll keep it in mind!

 

[Charlie Coyote]

My concern with cranks is it looks like you have to constantly hold the mill away from the side of the log, presumably to prevent the saw from bogging down against the side of the log. That was also my experience with cranks and that just felt like wasted energy so this is when I looked for other solutions like wheels and a remote throttle. Wheels are not perfect but they will minimize the need to constantly hold the mill away from the side of the log.



. . . . if a CSM operator's arms hurt there's something not right with their set up. ;-)
If the chain cutter geometry is set right and the cutters are sharp, with wheels and a slight slope on the log, a CSM should self feed so there should be no need to push much or at all.
View attachment 325999

Even if there is minimal pushing, most arm soreness from CSM is due to the operators arms being spread too far apart while holding onto the mill/saw (this is why your arms are not as sore). A well located remote locking throttle eliminates this problem by getting the operators arms more directly in front them and allows them to stand up close and personal to the mill to be able to be able to apply forward pressure on the wrap handle with their leg/knee/thigh. This then in turn means the operator's arms can be free to do things like unbog the saw if needed and add wedges etc and it means it is possible not to stop milling once started which makes for smoother cuts.

"A well located remote locking throttle", sounds like it is necessary. Could you expand on how to rig it? A successful design would be of benefit, as opposed to trial and error.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

For the gantry style, I'd be concerned with racking and stability while moving. Were you thinking of an acme thread for the z axis movement?

Something like one of these.
https://www.amazon.com/Linear-Actua...la-818330984106&ref=&adgrpid=79419941900&th=1
Here's the Bosch 1617 clamp setup to bolt on to it - https://www.avidcnc.com/bosch-1617-router-mount-p-192.html

 

[gnef]

Something like one of these.
https://www.amazon.com/Linear-Actua...la-818330984106&ref=&adgrpid=79419941900&th=1
Here's the Bosch 1617 clamp setup to bolt on to it - https://www.avidcnc.com/bosch-1617-router-mount-p-192.html

That is a very interesting idea! I do like the ball screw z-axis, and this could replace the acrylic plate mount with the plunge base. I'd have to redesign the gantry part though for stability. I'll keep this in mind if I ever need/want to upgrade! Thanks for the links, it has given me some ideas!

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

That is a very interesting idea! I do like the ball screw z-axis, and this could replace the acrylic plate mount with the plunge base. I'd have to redesign the gantry part though for stability. I'll keep this in mind if I ever need/want to upgrade! Thanks for the links, it has given me some ideas!

Yeah when guys first started showing off their CNC rail router sleds it got me going down a whole rabbit hole of "how can I make this better?" for more z-axis travel. Have put it on the back burner while focusing most of my efforts on milling improvements lately but I do seriously need to put together a really good slab flattening set up soon to make use of all my larger slabs. The table frame for my existing low tech setup is wonky and have largely stopped using it, and I've been procrastinating on welding up a really proper rock solid 4'-5' x 10' frame. I have no large level surfaces anywhere in my life right now lol.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

That is a very interesting idea! I do like the ball screw z-axis, and this could replace the acrylic plate mount with the plunge base. I'd have to redesign the gantry part though for stability. I'll keep this in mind if I ever need/want to upgrade! Thanks for the links, it has given me some ideas!

I found this about a two hour drive from me. May go ahead and get this and think about the gantry style later. I like the brush enclosure under the router plate and dust collection. I've been having to set up outdoors due to the mess I make and this seems like it would be a clean indoor solution for my garage shop. Also found a really solid 10' x 50" table an hour from me for $65 that this would be a good match for.

 

[SeMoTony]

Wow, I didn't think I'd be losing 6". huh.

The larger trees I have are 20" or so. Looks like I'll have to go with a 28" bar then.

And when you say you'd suggest skip, you mean not bother?

And as for the auxiliary oiler, I was looking to do these in 10' lengths or so. The oiler necessary for something that short?

Skip chain as 1/2 as many cutters as regular chain. On my longer bars the teeth that aren't there allow better space for chip travel. Less clog

 

[thenne1713]

Westwood said:

Wow, I didn't think I'd be losing 6". huh.

The larger trees I have are 20" or so. Looks like I'll have to go with a 28" bar then.

And when you say you'd suggest skip, you mean not bother?

Remove the dogs and use hard nose bar= closer to 4" loss total;
With Granberg SMALL LOG MILL, there is no nose clamp, so good there w/ 20"-24" bar; you get compensated once two slabs removed.


Using roller tip loses more, as clamping the spinning TIP= NO, NO, NO
SKIP TOOTH CHAIN = less cutters= more space between cutters= fewer cutters in the wood= MORE HP per Cutter in the wood.

 

[SeMoTony]

Remove the dogs and use hard nose bar= closer to 4" loss total;
With Granberg SMALL LOG MILL, there is no nose clamp, so good there w/ 20"-24" bar; you get compensated once two slabs removed.


Using roller tip loses more, as clamping the spinning TIP= NO, NO, NO
SKIP TOOTH CHAIN = less cutters= more space between cutters= fewer cutters in the wood= MORE HP per Cutter in the wood.

I have drilled thru the middle of the roller tip. Just @ 1/4" so a 1/4x 20x 1 1/4 passes thru. It's a near full thread that is enough to tighten into middle of square or round aluminum vertical bar for that clamp. Best of both worlds. Longer reach while less resist out there.
The vertical handle is put at middle or beyond. Since I mill upside down, using the oiled side of the bar, throwing chips out on the open far side, I hold against cutting back push and down to keep bar parallel with guide.. Chips won't clog up saw end and are not in place to stumble around on.. 16 slices on a large elm left 3 foot wide and around 2 foot high pile that Mike was happy to put into his garden. Dint need to mess with it personally lol

 

[HumBurner]

Bump

Why is this not stickied??

 

[Lightning Performance]

Idk
Ttt

 

[PP4218]

Railomatic's good stuff!

I don't know what happened to Railomatic who was one of the most innovative CS mill designers to post on AS. He posted a lot of photos of his mills back in 2007/8 mainly linked to a photobucket account which has also disappeared but some of his posts did include photos posted direct to AS.

I thought I would repost some of his posts here including his photos here because they really deserve to be seen, especially by newbies and folks looking for interesting CS mill designs and you may also see where I got several ideas for my mills from. You will also see the outstanding quality of finish that he was able to fabricate.

More in the next post

Any idea on how to see his pictures?

 

[turboaudi80]

Hi Folks, I have binged this entire tread and my head is spinning. I would like to get into CSM and I bought a cheap kit from ebay to get started. The hardware is horrible China junk, but I think I can make it work. I have a couple questions on two different topics:

I plan on making a guide like BobL's out of unistrut. Can you comment on the benefit of screwing the cross braces into the end of the log, rather than the top(side)? I can imagine that the end might be more secure, but it seems like it would also would require more set up time.

I have a couple saws I am considering using. First is a Dolmar PS7900 (79cc) with a 28" bar. I was thinking of starting with this to experiment. I also recently picked up an old Homelite 1050 Super (100cc) with a 32" bar. The challenge with the Homelite is that it is heavy and the bar takes .404 .058 chain which is an unusual size. I was considering buying a 36" bar so I could run .404 .063 which is much more common.

So far, my goal is to make a rough shelf for my shed to hold fuel cans and suitcase weights for my tractor. Finish won't matter. I think some heavy, rough sawn planks would be fun for this. My second project is to build a very simple, heavy bench out of some dead red oak. That would be placed along a hiking trail I frequent. Neither of these need to be very wide, so I don't think I need a crazy big bar or an expensive saw like a MS880.

Any wisdom would be welcome.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Welcome to our

Hi Folks, I have binged this entire tread and my head is spinning. I would like to get into CSM and I bought a cheap kit from ebay to get started. The hardware is horrible China junk, but I think I can make it work. I have a couple questions on two different topics:

I plan on making a guide like BobL's out of unistrut. Can you comment on the benefit of screwing the cross braces into the end of the log, rather than the top(side)? I can imagine that the end might be more secure, but it seems like it would also would require more set up time.

I have a couple saws I am considering using. First is a Dolmar PS7900 (79cc) with a 28" bar. I was thinking of starting with this to experiment. I also recently picked up an old Homelite 1050 Super (100cc) with a 32" bar. The challenge with the Homelite is that it is heavy and the bar takes .404 .058 chain which is an unusual size. I was considering buying a 36" bar so I could run .404 .063 which is much more common.

So far, my goal is to make a rough shelf for my shed to hold fuel cans and suitcase weights for my tractor. Finish won't matter. I think some heavy, rough sawn planks would be fun for this. My second project is to build a very simple, heavy bench out of some dead red oak. That would be placed along a hiking trail I frequent. Neither of these need to be very wide, so I don't think I need a crazy big bar or an expensive saw like a MS880.

Any wisdom would be welcome.

Now are you looking at using the unistrut rails on every cut or just the first cut? Either way, I favor rails on a bracket system screwed in at the ends because it's too easy to twist or bow a ladder/unistrut setup if you screw down too hard without a lot of shims in place from the top on the first cut setup. For ensuing cuts using rails, I don't like screw holes in my wood so prefer attaching brackets to the ends. There's two schools of thought on using rails every cut - the precision crowd who likes less planing and waste and work later (I'm in that) wants every slab to be as good and straight as it can be, the git'r'done crowd wants to mill slabs as fast as possible and make them nice later, trim off ends that were started or finished badly, doesn't mind wasting some, etc.

Since the Dolmar will only give you about 22" of cut in the mill, it's powerful enough to mill the planks that you could with it. The Homelite is a plenty powerful setup for anything you want to do. My 880 has seen increasingly little use because of its weight. I'd buy a 42" .404 bar for the Homelite to make the most of a 36" mill if that's what you got. What I've read about the Homelite it's got a ton of low end grunt and runs at low rpm's so .404 is what it was made for. But also hear they'll about tear your arm off starting them so the Dolmar will be more comfortable to start with.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Hi Folks, I have binged this entire tread and my head is spinning. I would like to get into CSM and I bought a cheap kit from ebay to get started. The hardware is horrible China junk, but I think I can make it work. I have a couple questions on two different topics:

I plan on making a guide like BobL's out of unistrut. Can you comment on the benefit of screwing the cross braces into the end of the log, rather than the top(side)? I can imagine that the end might be more secure, but it seems like it would also would require more set up time.

I have a couple saws I am considering using. First is a Dolmar PS7900 (79cc) with a 28" bar. I was thinking of starting with this to experiment. I also recently picked up an old Homelite 1050 Super (100cc) with a 32" bar. The challenge with the Homelite is that it is heavy and the bar takes .404 .058 chain which is an unusual size. I was considering buying a 36" bar so I could run .404 .063 which is much more common.

So far, my goal is to make a rough shelf for my shed to hold fuel cans and suitcase weights for my tractor. Finish won't matter. I think some heavy, rough sawn planks would be fun for this. My second project is to build a very simple, heavy bench out of some dead red oak. That would be placed along a hiking trail I frequent. Neither of these need to be very wide, so I don't think I need a crazy big bar or an expensive saw like a MS880.

Any wisdom would be welcome.

Go over the old Homelite for your big stuff. Definitely switch to 063 chain in 404 on that old gal.
I use a ladder with screws and shims for my first cut.

Getting your chains the best they can be and finding a nice winch will pay dividends you didn't know were there.

 

[J D]

Hi Folks, I have binged this entire tread and my head is spinning. I would like to get into CSM and I bought a cheap kit from ebay to get started. The hardware is horrible China junk, but I think I can make it work. I have a couple questions on two different topics:

I plan on making a guide like BobL's out of unistrut. Can you comment on the benefit of screwing the cross braces into the end of the log, rather than the top(side)? I can imagine that the end might be more secure, but it seems like it would also would require more set up time.

I have a couple saws I am considering using. First is a Dolmar PS7900 (79cc) with a 28" bar. I was thinking of starting with this to experiment. I also recently picked up an old Homelite 1050 Super (100cc) with a 32" bar. The challenge with the Homelite is that it is heavy and the bar takes .404 .058 chain which is an unusual size. I was considering buying a 36" bar so I could run .404 .063 which is much more common.

So far, my goal is to make a rough shelf for my shed to hold fuel cans and suitcase weights for my tractor. Finish won't matter. I think some heavy, rough sawn planks would be fun for this. My second project is to build a very simple, heavy bench out of some dead red oak. That would be placed along a hiking trail I frequent. Neither of these need to be very wide, so I don't think I need a crazy big bar or an expensive saw like a MS880.

Any wisdom would be welcome.

Welcome,
Good advice from George & Lightning.
I would add that I generally like to fix to the ends of the log as it lowers the risk of hitting screws at random depths along the cut (much easier to judge where the parallel ones at the end are). For subsequent cuts I just lay my board on top with no fixings (unless something is twisted, then I level & fix it)
Replace the chinese U clamps & any other questionable nuts/bolts on the mill right from the start, they will fail, & it will be a right PITA when they do.
Probably a good idea to start your own thread in the milling section

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

This thread has gone dead and a lot of newbies are unaware of it and ask questions answered here. Trying to revive it. Here’s some of my simple setup for resawing warped slabs or in this case crudely cut tree service rounds. Also is my general first cut setup. The top leveling I did typical first cut style, w a ladder and shims and screwed thru the rungs shallow into the wood so the bar could pass below the screws. I don’t use the end brackets on the ladder for shallow top leveling because I would have to cut deeper than I want to to pass below the brackets. Then I raise the piece on to the 4x4 chocks w lips and screw the chocks into my platform, wedging the piece so it can’t move. I set the mill to a depth that it just clears the top of the chocks or even takes some off them - they’re sacrificial - and make the bottom cut. Don't have to use the ladder guide to do this cut but I'm used to using the ladder every cut w the slotted end brackets. The two thin leveled pieces are shown. This way ensures the top are dead level w each other, as if you’ve planed the slab. To get heavy pieces like this or whole logs up on my platform for comfortable sawing, I use my log jack I copied from one of BobL's designs. I need to rebend my forks in my shop press because they're just 1/4" x 2" mild steel and only so strong and when I jacked up a 2500 lb sycamore log with it they bent downward some.

Funny thing in this case was after I'd planed my chocks a bit to make sure they were flat and level, I forgot to screw them down. The weight of this cypress round was enough on them that everything didn't move while I milled it. First softwood I've ever milled, though granted only a cookie so more like crosscutting really. Have another short fat chunk I need to mill. Lo pro 36" bar maxed to 30.5" went through it like it wasn't even there.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Welcome,
Good advice from George & Lightning.
I would add that I generally like to fix to the ends of the log as it lowers the risk of hitting screws at random depths along the cut (much easier to judge where the parallel ones at the end are). For subsequent cuts I just lay my board on top with no fixings (unless something is twisted, then I level & fix it)
Replace the chinese U clamps & any other questionable nuts/bolts on the mill right from the start, they will fail, & it will be a right PITA when they do.
Probably a good idea to start your own thread in the milling section

About one in ten bolts acually break. The biggest problem is stripped nuts on the clamps. I cut them off and use Stihl OEM bar nuts.

Not checking or fixing the clamps on machine mill or filing them square is the biggest issue. The castings are rarely square. It's a simple neglected fix.


My logs now are all over 30" wide for milling so the first cut is deep. Usually a six inch cut. That second board that cups is worthless most times in flat sawn second one. It goes to live edge or wood strips resawn later. Don't waste your time folks unless your trying to get a good flat straight edge with a narrow guide system. I don't have that issue with a 16" wide I-beam ladder. Rarely use end clamps because the big saw can and will push that ladder if it isn't shimmed and secured at three other points besides the ends. My first cut is rarely anything but flat and straight. I take twice as long as most for the first cut especially in the forest or brush. Up to one hour on large logs for the first cut. First cut also goes fastest in sapwood only and can move around more on a single power head as the logs get wider over 40" That thicker furst cut chunk rarely twist but they always bow up. As they dry they straighten back out.

 

[thenne1713]

The weight was definitely one of the reasons I went with the aluminum rather than something more rigid like your unistrut (I've also seen some that use steel square tubing - now that is heavy!). The 2040 that I used for the rails is really quite light, and I bought some v-slot handles so it is really easy to carry and move around. They do sag if I am bridging over the entire 4m, but as long as I have some supports throughout, they are more than rigid enough. If I need more rigidity, I can try going with 2060, but I am quite happy with how it is working with the 2040.

Adding adjustable width could be an interesting idea, but I'd have to figure out the bridging, since it would really only be supported at each end of the log, and for long logs, there would definitely be some sagging. I'll keep it in mind!

Consider ALUMINUM LADDER?

 

[J D]

I thought this theead was a sticky at the top of the milling page... it seems to have lost it's stickiness...