CS Milling 101, Hints tips and tricks

[Cabin by the Creek]

It depends how crafty you are.

I got this log off the ground.
View attachment 325834

With this.
View attachment 325835
View attachment 325836
Full thread here.

The hi-lift jack lifts 7500 lbs and I picked a used one for US$30 and modifying it took a couple of hours. Admittedly It's not something I like carrying more than about 100 yards but otherwise it's well worth the effort.

That's cool. Do you have a pic of the log lift add on. I would like to add it to my current jack set up

 

[BobL]

I'm not sure how big your logs are or how high you plan on lifting logs, and what sort of soils and slopes you are working on, but I would like to see the base a bit wider and something solid instead of those cables. Remember with cable you're relying on just one of the cables, with something like solid angle iron or SHS, both sides provide support.

 

[Johnnybar]

I'm not sure how big your logs are or how high you plan on lifting logs, and what sort of soils and slopes you are working on, but I would like to see the base a bit wider and something solid instead of those cables. Remember with cable you're relying on just one of the cables, with something like solid angle iron or SHS, both sides provide support.

Agree, I've seen far too many cable clamps hold about 10% of what I thought they should have been able to hold.

 

[Albert Beerstein]

Raker guide plates are basically useless at accurately setting the RA



Have a look at this thread http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...ly-progressive-depth-raker-generators.114624/
The method of setting the RA to better suit the extent of cutter wear is called "Progressive raker depth setting"

The discussion in that thread starts by referring to something called an "FOP".
FOP is a Carlton "File=O=Plate" which is a raker angle setting jig which better than the flat guide plates but still does not allow a sharpener to set the RA to the angle that suits their setup.
BUT Read on through the thread and you will see how I go about progressive raker depth setting in great detail.
Post 67 has a link to a video of the process.

Just to be clear I don't set the RAs exactly every time I touch the rakers as that would take too long.
I usually set the RA after a long milling day or couple of days.
In the field I give the rakers a couple of swipes after every 3-4 cutter touch ups.

BTW there are flat Oregon Raker guides that range from 0.025 "in steps of 0.005" (0.025, 0.030, 0.035" etc) to to 0.070" which allow you to adjust the raker angle.
The larger sizes are for Harvester chains but they will work for regular chains as well.
However you cannot set the rakers in between these sizes using these guides.

The beauty of progressive raker depth setting is that you don't need to worry about setting the length of the cutters alike because it's really about getting the RA the same. Not that I'm that exact about it.
If my RAs are within 0.5º that's fine and if the odd one is even 1º over they I don't worry about it.

My way of setting the rakers for milling is with this modified universal setter, the end is ground to 7° and a strip of aluminium glued to it locates the start of the taper at the cutting edge of the tooth, so the raker is always at 7° from this point if filed down to the guideView attachment 573506 View attachment 573506 View attachment 573507 View attachment 573506 View attachment 573507

 

[millHouseMod]

I have read over this here and there over later years until now finally joining since im nearing my initial mill setup.
I am running a fully redone 272xp with a 20" that I have done half dz cord firewood so far. Love the saw!

The current trees laying in my woods range from Hickory/Maple/Oak sizes 15"-36" rounds
The big oak at 36" would be quartered (its probably rotted into the sap wood) down to a smaller square dimension to then make slabs.

Knowing this, what bar would you guys start with to handle even the big oak, OR would you forget about that oak and tackle smaller logs to gain experience and then have to buy another bar? Can my stock saw even handle that tree? Whats the largest bar I could realistically run if I setup an oil drip can?

Also, being a mechanic, steel/alum savy, where would you start on choosing a mill jig OR would you just make your own? Id prefer to buy/mod one rather than start scratch unless its just spacers and all-thread...

 

[BobL]

Also, being a mechanic, steel/alum savy, where would you start on choosing a mill jig OR would you just make your own? Id prefer to buy/mod one rather than start scratch unless its just spacers and all-thread...

Have another look at post #60 of this thread and you will see the basic mods I recommend for a CS mill. Only you can ascertain if by the time you do all these mods it would have been quicker/better to make one from scratch. Personally I reckon a mill that is bolted to the bar bolts makes for a stiffer stronger mill and that will require you to build it from scratch. However, that is only needed for bigger saws so for your saw it doesn't matter.

 

[Derf]

Good thread

 

[AlaskanMillWinch4Life]

What raker depth do you guys/gals run on your 3120 for milling?

 

[BobL]

What raker depth do you guys/gals run on your 3120 for milling?

Chains cut much better if you don't use a fixed raker depth. To maintain cutting performance right to the end of the chains life look at running a constant raker angle.
The optimum angle depends on saw power, width of cut and hardness of wood.
See post 141 in this thread.

Stock chain has a raker angle of 5.7º - this equates to 25"' when the gullet is 0.25".
To maintain this raker angle the raker depth should be 30"' when the gullet is 0.30"
And when the gullet is 0.35" the raker depth should be 35"'
when the gullet is 0.40" the raker depth should be 40"'
etc
I have done some milling with my mates 3120 and we used an raker angle of 6.5º for Aussie hardwood which is very hard.
This log has been on the ground for nearly 100 years.


In softwoods I would start at 7º on a 3120 for up to about 50" wide cuts in your softwoods.
Then increment the angle by ~0.5º until it starts to stall and back it off from there.

 

[Derf]

Chains cut much better if you don't use a fixed raker depth. To maintain cutting performance right to the end of the chains life look at running a constant raker angle.
The optimum angle depends on saw power, width of cut and hardness of wood.
See post 141 in this thread.

Stock chain has a raker angle of 5.7º - this equates to 25"' when the gullet is 0.25".
To maintain this raker angle the raker depth should be 30"' when the gullet is 0.30"
And when the gullet is 0.35" the raker depth should be 35"'
when the gullet is 0.40" the raker depth should be 40"'
etc
I have done some milling with my mates 3120 and we used an raker angle of 6.5º for Aussie hardwood which is very hard.
This log has been on the ground for nearly 100 years.
View attachment 622583

In softwoods I would start at 7º on a 3120 for up to about 50" wide cuts in your softwoods.
Then increment the angle by ~0.5º until it starts to stall and back it off from there.

Can you quickly explain some notation for me?
I see you know the symbol for degrees.
10º = 10 degrees
I understand a single quote to mean feet.
10’ = 10 feet
A double quote means inches.
10” = 10 inches
What is your triple quote symbol mean?

Also, you mentioned Aussie hard wood, so I take it you are Australian. I’m American, and I thought we were about the only country in the world that uses imperial (inches) while just about everyone else uses metric (meters). So also correct me if I’m wrong assuming that you were referencing inches and feet. [do Australians use inches and feet?]

 

[BobL]

Can you quickly explain some notation for me?
What is your triple quote symbol mean?

"' means "thousandths of an inch" - this symbol is commonly used by metal workers especially in machine shops.

Also, you mentioned Aussie hard wood, so I take it you are Australian. I’m American, and I thought we were about the only country in the world that uses imperial (inches) while just about everyone else uses metric (meters). So also correct me if I’m wrong assuming that you were referencing inches and feet. [do Australians use inches and feet?]

Australia has officially used the metric system since the 1970's but I am old enough to have been around and gone to school in the 1960's when we used the Imperial (ft and inches, lbs etc) system.
At high school I learned to use both imperial and metric. At college we used nearly all metric but the occasional, mainly older, professors still used Imperial and some used CGS (a variant of metric that uses centimetres, grams and seconds, and "dynes" and "ergs" for force and energy) so students had to be able to convert between all 3 systems. During my professional life as a research scientist we only used metric for anything official but I still remember and can think easily in Imperial. One of the many things I got involved with at work was designing and building ultra clean laboratories which used large air flows. This has come in handy in designing and testing wood dust extraction systems which I have continued to do since I retired. As I always did the calculations in my head for these systems in Imperial I have continued to do this so I think of air flow in "Cubic Ft per minute" and air speed in "Ft/min".

 

[Derf]

That’s a really cool story! I didn’t realize Australia converted to metric. I wish the US would do so as well, but I have little hope for that. I wonder what precipitated Australia pushing to change over?

Thanks for the “‘ lesson. I work in a machine shop and I haven’t seen anyone use that, they usually just write 25 thou, or 0.025

 

[CR888]

I like Bob's depth ingenious gauge tool. Why can't a company that's been in the saw/chain business for half a century do that!

 

[BobL]

That’s a really cool story! I didn’t realize Australia converted to metric. I wish the US would do so as well, but I have little hope for that. I wonder what precipitated Australia pushing to change over?

The US is one of 3 countries in the world (the other two are Libya and Myanmar) that does not use metric.
The primary driver for change was for standardisation of trade between countries.
After WWII Australia started to trade with more countries outside those from the old British empire that it used Imperial it became easier to use metric.
You probably know this but maybe some others don't.
A major reason is it is much/much easier to use as all the sub units of a quantity are factors of 10, 100 or 1000 etc.
10x10x10 mm = 1m, 10x10x10 m = 1km etc
Try converting 123456789" into miles compared to 123456789 mm into km.

From Wikipedia

U.S. remains the only industrialised country that has not fully adopted the metric system as its official system of measurement, although in 1988 the United States Congress passed the Omnibus Foreign Trade and Competitiveness Act, which designates "the metric system of measurement as the preferred system of weights and measures for U.S. trade and commerce". Among many other things, the act requires federal agencies to use metric measurements in nearly all of its activities

It's mainly US engineering/building type activities that drives the continued use imperial because of the HUGE cost of converting shop tooling and machinery. However all US scientists I know use metric especially if they need to work with scientists outside the US. When I worked at UCSD in the late 1980's everything was in metric. I have also since done a bit of collaborative research with the USGS in Denver and Virgina and they have always used metric for any communications with me.

At least the US has decimal currency.
Up until 1966 Australia had the old English currency system, 12 pence = 1 shilling, 20 shillings = 1 pound, when we switched over to decimal currency.
I still remember when it happened - despite the threats that "the sky would fall" it all went very smoothly and within a couple of months I certainly had forgotten about the old money.

I work in a machine shop and I haven’t seen anyone use that, they usually just write 25 thou, or 0.025

I think it might be more English than US notation.

I like Bob's depth ingenious gauge tool. Why can't a company that's been in the saw/chain business for half a century do that!

Which tool is that?

 

[Sashadeboer]

Great pictures guys, really helpful

 

[CR888]

I was referring to the depth gauge posted by Albert Beerstein with the fixed 7° ramp on its front. Sit it love the chain and easily maintain that 7° angle-of-attack. Sorry I thought it was Bob's gauge. I often have chains with not so perfect cutter lengths, I refuse to grind all cutters to match the shortest one, this guide would make easy work setting each depth gauge according to length/height of each individual cutter.

 

[BereanAuden]

BEEN MILLIn and stacking and drying cypress and pecan for the first time. I can help with advice and am welcome to others'. My wood is going to be processed myself (tongue-in-groove) then used as flooring and walls in my tiny home on a 30ft gooseneck trailer.

 

[BereanAuden]

I have read over this here and there over later years until now finally joining since im nearing my initial mill setup.
I am running a fully redone 272xp with a 20" that I have done half dz cord firewood so far. Love the saw!

The current trees laying in my woods range from Hickory/Maple/Oak sizes 15"-36" rounds
The big oak at 36" would be quartered (its probably rotted into the sap wood) down to a smaller square dimension to then make slabs.

Knowing this, what bar would you guys start with to handle even the big oak, OR would you forget about that oak and tackle smaller logs to gain experience and then have to buy another bar? Can my stock saw even handle that tree? Whats the largest bar I could realistically run if I setup an oil drip can?

Also, being a mechanic, steel/alum savy, where would you start on choosing a mill jig OR would you just make your own? Id prefer to buy/mod one rather than start scratch unless its just spacers and all-thread...

It is just spacers and all-thread...

 

[HorsesanHarleys]

Hey guys an gals. New to this site. Totally off grid homestead with a long trip to civilization for building materials so had to get creative

 

[Johnnym]

Wow, and get creative you did!
Can you tell us a bit about the setup.
Does it make only 2x lumber or can you change the thickness?