cutter types and burrs

[che]

I'm trying to sharpen this new chain on my Shindaiwa 488...it says Oregon and has the number 33 on each cutter. From what I can tell it's a 33SL....but I'm not sure what that means.

1) I'm creating a slight burr which I've never notice on my other chains when sharpening. What causes this? (I'm using an Oregon clamp on guide, 5/32" file)

2) I've seen them everywhere, but can't seem to find a definition of the cutter types, ex: SL, RS, LG, DG, VP, SG. What do they mean?

Thanks for any help. Che

 

[Tony Snyder]

33 is .325 pitch and .050 gauge. The burr I suspect you are seing is the chrome plating. The cutter edge can never be made sharper than the thickness of the chrome plating. The chreome is so hard that your file cannot cut it, so it hangs there as a burr. It will not hurt anything. It will break off after a few seconds in the wood. It is the chrome plating that helps the staysharp of your chain. Of course, it won't stand up to rocks.

 

[jokers]

Hi Che, the 33SL is a round ground ,square corner chain with bumper tie straps, those obnoxiuos HUGE bumpers in front of the tooth. Tony is right with the info he posted for you. To add some detail, the proper angles per the Oregon manual are 25° for the top plate, 60° for the side plate or "hook", and 10° down angle on the file handle assuming that you are filing inside out. Hope this helps. Russ

 

[che]

Thanks Tony and Russ. So I don't have to worry about the burrs? That's good. Do all chains have chrome on them? I'm just wondering why I've never seen it before.

Russ, I looked at the Oregon box from another chain I had to find the angles. I looked at their website and found the same thing. What's blowing me away (and I'm too tired tonight to explain it well) is that while it SAYS the angle should be 25 degrees....when I lay the file in the cutter, it fits perfectly while the guide is set at 30 degrees. I've run two gallons of gas through this saw before sharpening it now, twice as long as I normally do...but I keep coming up with the same thing every time I TRY to sharpen it. I can't think of what I could be doing wrong. From what I can see, there are only two adjustments to this guide....the top plate angle and the file angle. I tried to grab a couple minutes this morning and get some pictures to show this problem....but....of course the camera wouldn't load into the computer and I didn't have time to reboot it, had to run. Today is done, wayyyyyyy done. I will explain and try to illustrate tomorrow.

Thanks guys for your help. Che
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[xander9727]

Che,
You left us hanging......As the other guys told you the burrs are normal and will go away as soon as you put the saw to wood. I sharpen my chains with a 30 degree top plate angle.

 

[jokers]

Hi Che, I was just posting the factory angles in case you didn`t have them handy. The most important angles in my opinion are the 10° down on the file handle and the side plate or hook angle. Actualy I think that 60° on the side plate might give you a little more hook than you really want, I say get the side plate and working corner cutting together by having a steeper, 70°- 80° side plate angle. You have quite a bit of latitude on the top plate angle, I`ve seen anywhere from about 20° - 35° work well depending on the material you are cutting and the horsepower of your saw. It wasn`t so long ago that Oregon advised a top plate angle of 30° on their square cornered chains and I have been told that the change in recommended angle is more a manufacturing consideration regarding grinding wheel accessabilty past the newly(sorta) developed idea that depth gauges should be set at .025 from the factory vs the former setting of .030 and some other factors regarding the use of Borazon wheels at the plant. Another factor in the new vs old angle recommendations more than likely has something to do with the fact that all manufactureres are using less chrome on their cutters these days and with thinner chrome a slightly more blunt angle will enhance workable staysharp. Hope all this nonsense helps you to realize that if what you are doing works for you, who am I to tell you that you are wrong? Later, Russ

 

[jokers]

Bad Advice, Sorry!

Hi Che, the part of my previous post where I suggested you get a 70°-80° sideplate angle does not work well with small chain like 33SL. I just went out and ground some 34SL which is the same as 33SL except the gauge, .058 vs .050, and that small tooth really needs to be sharpened at 60° to have a bevel. Hope this helps and that I caught you before you "sharpened" to my previous advice. :blush: Russ

 

[Tony Snyder]

I have not found the top plate angle to be too critical, with anything from 35 degrees to 20 degrees working O.K. I don't play with the drop angle, leaving it about -5 degrees.

If you are using a wheel grinder; I hope you are pulling the bur to the outside edge.

Those grinders that only rotate one direction are more crap from OSHA and UL. ( you can work around that) There are few idiot bureaucrats that cannot be outsmarted. I love to beat them.

 

[jokers]

Hi Tony, I agree about the gov. and UL buggering up the new grinders by stipulating single direction rotation. I`ve also been told that it`s a liabilty issue in the good old US of A because there aren`t any grinding wheels rated for bi-directional rotation. At any rate, you can get those fancy 12 lug switches you need to convert a modern US grinder to bi directional from McMaster Carr for about $12 each, if you ever knew anyone who wanted one. Russ

 

[che]

Keeping in mind I'm using one of those clamp on guides to file...how do I adjust the side plate angle to 60 degrees? The top plate is set, the 10 degree file angle is set.

I'm sorry, it's been really crazy here and I couldn't get to the images. We're culling/selling a few cows in the morning and hopefully I can give a full report after that. Thanks for your advice and patience.

Che

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Che', it is pointless to try and file to factory specs. Its a good starting point though. Although I am sure you are reasonably accomplished with hand filing and getting the wood cut, it is important to understand that no two filers will file the same.
The main thing is to get a nice crisp, sharp working corner and top plate, and to have all your cutters equal in size. Proper side plate angle will look after itself if you watch your other angles. Keep the gullets cleaned out and watch your raker height. 20- 25 thou. is perfect. Dull files are a chore. Sharp chain and correct driver/bar groove tolerance will ensure easy, relaxing time out in the woods.
John

 

[jokers]

Hi Che, if your file guide is the type I`m familiar with, there is also an adjustment knob behind the head of the guide, toward the saw`s powerhead. This knob will raise or lower the file in relation to the tooth and this is how you get the sideplate angle. The standard thumb rule is to have 1/5 the diameter of the file above the topplate, this relationship accomplishes two objectives, you get the sideplate angle right and the inside bevel of the topplate is right. Of course this adjustment is somewhat at your discretion also. Eventually you may need a smaller diameter file to get these same relationships as the height of the tooth diminishes. Hope this helps. Russ

 

[rbtree]

jokers,

che said she was using a 5/32 file....which seems too small for a new chain.

Most guys rec 3/16, which I find too large. I have some hard to find 11/32 which seems just right.

I find it hard to tip the file down 10 degrees with the .325 without cutting into thee tie straps too much.

 

[che]

It's all falling in to place now....I think I can handle it. What really threw me is that I thought that if the guide/box/manual/website all say this chain should be filed at 25 and 10 degrees...then I must not have even the slightest clue about what I'm looking at.....there seemed to be a humongous difference between what I thought I should be seeing and was I was. BUT...I'm now understanding that this chain may not be at those angles to start with...and this, in itself, explains alot.

Russ, that's what I was hoping you'd say, thanks. I did use that little knob thingee to position the file as you've described....I just didn't know that was also making an angle that I was looking for.

John, thank-you. I did feel comfortable filing the other chains...but the guides were already set up...I just clamped them on, they fit...I went by 'feel' and chips. Now I need to know how to do it from the start if I'm going to learn anything.

This will be alot more fun to tackle again (once my hands thaw out.) Thanks for the advice and support.

Che

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Che', I find it is faster and better to file only freehand with no file guides or holders. They are just to slow and obstruct the view of what you're trying to acomplish. Consentrate only on the top plate angle and the working corner and everything will fall in line.
Down pressure on the file, away from the top plate and working corner to clean gullets progressively. Trying to hold the file at some predetermined height will just confuse matters and cause distraction. Let the file cut gently as you move it deliberately in a straight forward motion. Dont wait for it to get dull before you touch it up, but rather look forward to the task.
John

 

[Tony Snyder]

I believe the clamp on guide helps the user to understand how to file correctly, but it doesn't take long for them to leard and then they can lay the guide aside like training wheels and do well by hand.

Also I go by the 1/5th of the file diameter above the cutter rule.

I do find that many types of chain come new with enough metal left in the gullit (spell?) that it is hard to initially get the correct file size in there. That is troubling for the beginner.

 

[xander9727]

John,
Could you take a close up of that?

 

[Gypo Logger]

Sorry about that Todd,
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Darn it, I made a mistake, the previous picture was to small.
Try this one, but you may have to schroll L-R.
John

 

[che]

Quit showing off, John.

I tried dozens of shots last night to illustrate how far I HAVEN'T gotten....but none would turn out. I even dug out the tiny tripod I picked up a couple years ago and never used. Your pictures are great!! I can take pictures of an anther on a daylily (showing the pollen) but I can't seem to get the lighting right to show the edge on my cutters. Any hints there John?

Tony, your last post was very helpful....I was finding this size file a bit awkward...again, thought I was doing something wrong. You're also right about the 'training wheels'...I'm going to use this 'crutch' to figure out what I'm doing...when I gain a bit of skill and confidence....THEN....I'll be asking you all about free hand filing......and showing GREAT pictures (hopefully by then I'll have my NEW camera.)

Che