Cylinder honing

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Yup,

I was at a outdoor equipment shop one day, the guy in front of me was a logger/tree service guy I would guess.
They brought his 460 out in a box, told him it would be over $600 to fix it,
Then told him $50 bucks for the diagnosis, they were working out a deal, like "I'll take the $50 bucks off if you buy a new one and let me keep these worthless parts" as I walked out the door.

I see a lot of parts saws on Ebay from dealers that have seen the "light". Don't forget the phone call telling the customer the bad news and he doesn't pick it up. FREE parts saw in 30 days. Just for the record I routinely lightly ball hone after a piston meltdown. After removing the transfer. Never had a comeback on the used saws I sell.
Shep
 
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Yup,

Put several "meltdowns" back together that no doubt ran stronger than when they were new!

I don't use a ball hone, just acid then 320 grit. I have used a well worn flap wheel a time or two, but like the "feel" method better.

I have much more time than money!
 
I have posted many time how I thought honing was the devil. But I have come to realize it does have its place with us "hobbiest" who resurrect the dead. I'm a perfectionist freak when it comes to pistons and cylinders. If the bore ain't perfect, I am usually looking for another. But I've had some pretty "Rare" cylinders cross my bench that I typically wouldn't even consider running, that with a couple seconds of a 320 ball hone and a quick pass with my "special" hone, were brought back to their former glory.

Contrary to popular belief, a nikisal cylinder doesn't need crosshatch for the rings to seat. They seat perfectly fine on a nice smooth bore. If u look inside a brand new OEM cylinder, there is the appearance of crosshatch, but in reality it's smooth as a baby's butt. The visible "crosshatch" is just from the final machining process.

Now I'll share my "Special" hone with ya. Makes a beautiful smooth finish inside a cylinder, and makes it easy to see any imperfections missed in th cleaning up process, as it more or less polishes the bore, without removing any material. It's a grey scotch brite pad in an eyebolt. Crude, but man it puts the slickness in a bore, also helps smooth the rough edges around port openings especially after porting, and puts a good polish on the combustion chamber. I do all my cylinders with it, whether it gets honed or not.

Here is a pic of the setup.

8ca315b0.jpg


And here is a finished product shot. This is a 262xp cylinder that had some pretty good scratches, and some transfer. She is perfect now after a good acid bath, some sanding, a light hone with a 320 ball hone, and a "Special" treatment. :)

a2fc431e.jpg
 
The heavy crosshatch is pretty much a thing of the past, even on cast four stroke cylinders the micro-finish and brush is the way to go.
And once you put it together, "run it like you stole it"!
 
+1 Zerojunk
+1 ncfarmboy

+1 very nice work Wiggs!

as someone mentioned above...nik really doesn't need the x-hatch, it has some inherent mysterious oil holding capability. on bikes we want the least leakdown we can get immediately, so we honed them. even new pistons and cylinders vary in size. can't wait counting hours of runtime for sealing up rings. like seeing the rings seat in immediately, and then leaving them actually to wear through use. some problem areas were always around the exhaust ports, where the most heat was, where oil burned off the most, the nik was thinner. suggest just be careful and choose the right hone material/grit if you are new to this.

especially unique, unobtainable, or worn pistons can sometimes be saved with just a skirt coating. donno what a saw piston runs, but maybe could be a cheaper way out for some folks if they haven't tried this already.

happy wrenching.
 
As you can see there are lots of varing opinions here and they all work to some extent.
As for me....I will NEVER put a hone, ball or three stone, in a chainsaw cylinder.
I can see NO benefit and most will do more harm than good.
I have seen "honed" cylinders that were completely ruined IMO by the balls beating the hell out of the clockwise side of the ports and transfers.
The perfect seal is a glass smooth surface against a glass smooth surface protected by a microscopic film of oil.
Why do you want to put a bunch of scratches in it?
The Nicasil or chrome plating is thin enough as it is.....why would you want to remove any of it?

Put me firmly in the "HELL NO" category.


Mike
 
Put me firmly in the "HELL NO" category.


Mike

Oh come on mike!! :laugh:

U wake up on the wrong side of the bed this mornin? Lol

I do agree with ya, to a point. Lots of cylinders have been reduced to piles if junk than have been fixed most likely, but I've also saved quite a few doomed for the scrapper. But, a ball home is my last option. I get out all I can with good ol' elbow grease and the scotch brite.

Hope ya had a good thanksgiving mike!! :D
 
We debated the whole honing/ball honing issue on Nikasil cylinders at one of the last Stihl dealer update meetings I went to. The consensus from the group (which included several long-time gold technicians and two of the regional service people) was that ball honing is unnecessary in most cases and in cases where piston residue is an issue, it's best removed by hand.

To me, ball hones are a waste of time and money. They've been shown to be detrimental to newer motorcycle cylinders and my belief is that in most people's hands, they do more harm than good. This doesn't mean my opinion is 100% right, but I've rebuilt a lot of saws, more than most members here combined. I've never seen the benefits of a ball hone on a modern Nikasil cylinder.

(can't get the multi quotes to work)
me: question if all the above is worth the time/effort to do this properly, and lots of ways to make things worse.

JacobJ said it right!

+1 rms61moparman

on board with that entirely, if i had a saw shop with employees. would not want someone tied up that long with one saw. if i was my only employee, i would not make any $. but i don't have a saw shop and don't fix saws for monetary gain. would do it for myself, very close friends, and folks who don't have the $ if they asked for help. self satisfaction. some things that i learned years ago help me to do that. i digress. but that's what i teach my kids.
 
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Big thanks to wiggs

Just thought Id add a little to this. I was given a clean complete Husky 44 for fixing the neighbors leaf blower. A lot of parts for the saw is NLA. Anyways, It had some transfer on the cylinder, and the piston is scared up a little. I done the acid treatment to the cylinder, then some light sanding with 220 and 320, then I put the Wigglesworth hone to it. Turned out well. I have one small scar below the exhaust port (that Im not going to loose any sleep over), but other than that it looks almost new. Forgive the crappy pictures. There from my phone, and I didn't have it set right on the before shot.

photobucket-3976-1322429659386.jpg




photobucket-3829-1322429627048.jpg
 
yeah me too i'll take at least 3 of them.1 to use on cylinders and 2 to keep incase the first one get worn out LOL.and i'm dead serious too.
 
thats the way my stihl shop does they put just cylinder kits only.but if it's just a worn out piston he tells them it's not worth fixing so they will buy a new saw from him.but i'll keep that honing in mind nextime i find a saw thats not to fried to bad.i find a few that just need a new piston with a few lumps in the cylinder.i got a poulan 4218 that has a bad piston but the cylinder has a few lumps about middle ways of the it.

Some stuff to remember....the 4218 has a un-plated bore with a plated piston. Never sand or hone those type of bores. The finish is important and is ruined by sanding. If it's scored it's trash.

Wiggs is the man. Best looking work I've ever seen......not as fast as me, but pretty. :laugh:
 
Some stuff to remember....the 4218 has a un-plated bore with a plated piston. Never sand or hone those type of bores. The finish is important and is ruined by sanding. If it's scored it's trash.

Wiggs is the man. Best looking work I've ever seen......not as fast as me, but pretty. :laugh:

oh i c well i didn't know that but i do know about it now thanks mastermind i'll sure rember that for now on.
 
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