Diesel tractor

[ChoppyChoppy]

I don't know what kind of equipment an AGCO is but we have several pieces of equipment that start with barely a bump of the starter, even at -25*, while some other stuff, forget it without sticking a silent glow under it, battery charger, block heater, oil pan heater, trans heater, etc, 14 cans of ether (I kid!) and lots of swearing... and the hard starting stuff isn't worn out, actually the worst ones are some of the new brand new equipment.

A couple Ford trucks Carl has are horrible about it. I have run Dodges for years and never had much trouble unless the batteries went dead, even at -45*. The Fords just crank and crank and crank maybe hickup once in a while giving you false hope haha!

 

[WoodTick007]

Ether is soooooo very bad. . . I had my injectors rebuilt because my diesel was hard starting and my exhaust would spit black rain during the summer months. Solved both problems.... Low compression can also cause hard starting. Is your engine wet sleeved?

 

[olyman]

I don't know what kind of equipment an AGCO is but we have several pieces of equipment that start with barely a bump of the starter, even at -25*, while some other stuff, forget it without sticking a silent glow under it, battery charger, block heater, oil pan heater, trans heater, etc, 14 cans of ether (I kid!) and lots of swearing... and the hard starting stuff isn't worn out, actually the worst ones are some of the new brand new equipment.

A couple Ford trucks Carl has are horrible about it. I have run Dodges for years and never had much trouble unless the batteries went dead, even at -45*. The Fords just crank and crank and crank maybe hickup once in a while giving you false hope haha!

agco is the old allis chalmers....

 

[alleyyooper]

I have a engine block heater on my 1965 Ford 5000 that replaces one of the soft plugs. Plug that puppy in and in a hour it starts almost like summer. Plug it in over night due to weather reports of sub zero temps for the next day and it will melt snow off the hood it gets so warm. I also add Sea Foam to the fuel per instructions every time I put some in keeps the injectors clean and soaks up the water. I do the same with the Cummins in my truck.

Al

 

[Sawyer Rob]

agco is the old allis chalmers....

Not exactly... AGCO is an American company that OWNS the old Allis Chalmers name/brand... (along with many others)

None of their products have anything in common with the old AC product...

SR

 

[maine]

Ether is soooooo very bad. . . I had my injectors rebuilt because my diesel was hard starting and my exhaust would spit black rain during the summer months. Solved both problems.... Low compression can also cause hard starting. Is your engine wet sleeved?

why is ether so very bad?

 

[Jim Timber]

Ether burns hot and can break compression rings if you get too much in at once.

 

[fixit1960]

Ether burns hot and can break compression rings if you get too much in at once.

That's true but over the last 40 years I have used my share and it's worked well. At work I'm the only one with access to it so we have never had an issue with cracked heads, blown gaskets, blown engines or other common issues. They way this country is going it will probably be outlawed soon. As the engine designs get better and glow plug technology improves ether use will slowly fade away and soon only us old timers will even know how to use it (in an engine setting). I remember the 6-71 and 8v71 Detroits in the 50's, 60's and 70's it was standard equipment. They had a t-handle in the cab to pull to remotely inject a shot out of an ether canister mounted under the cab. Owners soon figured out unscrupulous operators were using it like a NOx2 booster to get up the steeper hills. Those were the days. Gotta stupid proof everything....

 

[olyman]

Not exactly... AGCO is an American company that OWNS the old Allis Chalmers name/brand... (along with many others)

None of their products have anything in common with the old AC product...

SR

thanks for the correction,,i used to work at allis........

 

[Jim Timber]

Yup, it can be used wisely without issue (has been for many years), but you can also roast an engine with it.

Looking into the idiotic ways mfg's are messing with the most reliable internal combustion engine on earth just makes me sad. My tier 2 tractor runs .5 degrees after TDC so that the exhaust gas stays hot enough to produce secondary combustion when it hits the turbo. The pre-tier 1 version ran around 15 degrees BTDC and made 15% more power on the same lbs/hr fuel. Since the bumblefuaks at the EPA don't understand you need to load the engine to make it drink more, this means the machine will need to work harder more often and end up polluting more than had they left well enough alone and dealt with a bit of smoke from time to time.

Yet we need saving from ourselves.... Stupid gov't.

 

[fixit1960]

Yup, it can be used wisely without issue (has been for many years), but you can also roast an engine with it.

Looking into the idiotic ways mfg's are messing with the most reliable internal combustion engine on earth just makes me sad. My tier 2 tractor runs .5 degrees after TDC so that the exhaust gas stays hot enough to produce secondary combustion when it hits the turbo. The pre-tier 1 version ran around 15 degrees BTDC and made 15% more power on the same lbs/hr fuel. Since the bumblefuaks at the EPA don't understand you need to load the engine to make it drink more, this means the machine will need to work harder more often and end up polluting more than had they left well enough alone and dealt with a bit of smoke from time to time.

Yet we need saving from ourselves.... Stupid gov't.

Remember, it's not about smoke or pollution it's about CONTROL. And driving our industry into the ground. Our economy follows and pretty soon we are all dependent on the government. That's the game plan as I see it.

 

[maine]

I have a Case 580C that i need to use ether to start it every time, no matter if it is warm or cold out. From what I have been googling it may be a bad lifter pump?
I do not know much about diesels but do not want to blow this engine up.
Any suggestions?

The battery also doesnt hold a charge very well. It is a John Deere "performance" battery that was not cheap and is only a year or so old. I was told i could add epsom salts to help rejuvinate it? does that make sense?

 

[alleyyooper]

Arco is a company that asorbed many brands in the 70's thru present day. they no longer list the Allis company but do the Massey Ferguson brand of yesteryear.

http://www.agcocorp.com/tractors.html

Al

 

[square1]

A major concern is that glow plugs can detonate ether with the pistons in the wrong position causing all kinds of bad things to happen.

 

[fixit1960]

A major concern is that glow plugs can detonate ether with the pistons in the wrong position causing all kinds of bad things to happen.

If your tractor has working glow plugs you should not use ether period. A lot of the older vintage tractors built in the 50's, 60's and 70's did not have glow plugs. That is where a whiff of ether is all it took to fire it off. You still need a good battery and starting system to get it rolling. A lot of the 60 and 70 era tractors had ether injectors attached from the factory. If it has a glow plug system then I would make sure it was in working order and utilize a coolant heater and/or magnetic crankcase oil pan heater to assist in getting the correct cranking speed to build enough compression to fire the injected diesel fuel.

 

[fixit1960]

I have a Case 580C that i need to use ether to start it every time, no matter if it is warm or cold out. From what I have been googling it may be a bad lifter pump?
I do not know much about diesels but do not want to blow this engine up.
Any suggestions?

The battery also doesnt hold a charge very well. It is a John Deere "performance" battery that was not cheap and is only a year or so old. I was told i could add epsom salts to help rejuvinate it? does that make sense?

Sounds as if it may be suffering from low engine compression. Possibly worn or dirty injectors, fuel leaks in the fuel system allowing air into the system or a combination of all of the above. PM me and we can discuss it. To many questions and not enough answers.

 

[lindnova]

I tried starting a 2002 powerstroke 7.3 diesel in a ford truck with ether a few years ago. Luckily I did not destroy it. Problem was the starter was going bad and cranking slow so it wouldn't start even when plugged in - temp was below zero - the fuel may have been gelling also. I sprayed some ether (too much) and it almost popped, then started and almost ran away before stopping. We were spraying at the same time as cranking so it would suck it up. We gave up at that point.

The next morning we pulled it into the shop to warm up and had the mechanic look at it. After warming he tried it and it still had ether in it and started to pop and make all sorts of bad noises before idling normal. I got my ass chewed bad for that. Luckily no damage was done. I'm sure it took some life out of it though, but it is still running today.

Sometimes you have to learn the hard way. NEVER USE ETHER IF YOU HAVE GLOW PLUGS. NEVER USE TO MUCH ETHER. DON'T USE ETHER IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING! I though I knew what I was doing at the time since we used it to help start cold loaders sometimes (no glow plugs). I suppose it might be ok if you don't warm up the glow plugs, but you never know if they are getting hot while cranking or not??

 

[olyman]

Remember, it's not about smoke or pollution it's about CONTROL. And driving our industry into the ground. Our economy follows and pretty soon we are all dependent on the government. That's the game plan as I see it.

its a FACT,,not just as you see it...and the wh filth,, has just about got it completed...

 

[Hddnis]

The problem with ether is how easy it is to see it as a magic fix for an engine that won't start. If it still won't start you can just spray in more magic, right?

I've seen guy empty several cans into a motor intake trying to get it running. I stand farther back with every can they grab. Pretty soon they are getting mad and slamming stuff around and cursing and then somebody gets hurt, happens all the time. Fireballs, bent connecting rods holes in pistons, intakes becoming orbiting space debris. Then there are the burns and scars for the people nearby.

Best way with a machine is to understand what it does when it works. If it stops working take the time to figure out what it should be doing, then fix that properly. In the end it saves time and costs less.

I've learned some of that the hard way.



Mr. HE

 

[fixit1960]

The problem with ether is how easy it is to see it as a magic fix for an engine that won't start. If it still won't start you can just spray in more magic, right?

I've seen guy empty several cans into a motor intake trying to get it running. I stand farther back with every can they grab. Pretty soon they are getting mad and slamming stuff around and cursing and then somebody gets hurt, happens all the time. Fireballs, bent connecting rods holes in pistons, intakes becoming orbiting space debris. Then there are the burns and scars for the people nearby.

Best way with a machine is to understand what it does when it works. If it stops working take the time to figure out what it should be doing, then fix that properly. In the end it saves time and costs less.

I've learned some of that the hard way.



Mr. HE

Wow, where do you live and who do you associate with. Lock the ether up. Point is there are definitely uses for and the need for ether. As I pointed out in my post #55 there are some models with out glow plugs and away from electrical means to plug it in, you put a battery jump on it and hit it with ether to get it going. Just the way it is. It's a tool and should be used as one not a substitute for proper maintenance and procedure. Flying debris, he would be fired.. Take a walk and find a different vocation. There are safe ways to use ether with out destroying anything. Of course this misuse was one of the driving factors in manufacturers designing better systems. EI, glow plugs and intake heaters and computerized injectors. As the population dumbed down fewer and fewer where able to use it correctly. And now it is almost a lost art. Similar to an ignition point file . What the hell is that used for asked an young green horn about 12 years ago. He had been out of tech school about 10 years.