Do i need another chainsaw ?
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EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar
ArboristSite Operative
While not a pro saw, the Echo cs400 is another very good "consumer grade" saw at 40cc.
This the 30" bar on the old 50cc Homelite, bucking some elm- its a bit punky so not the full experience. I bucked the smaller half of it standing, bent over just for the biggest cuts. Since its all down the ground I cut most of the diameter then rolled it to cut the remainder. Its a skip-tooth chain so still cuts reasonably, larger wood needs a lighter touch to keep the chain speed up- thats where a bigger saw would help. Standing or bending its helpful to have a long bar on the bigger cuts, no need to fiddle around with multiple passes. I do have a CS590 with 20" bar for felling and so on- the 30" bar gets unwieldy for that. I wouldn't do any of this with a 30cc. OTOH to get this trunk section onto flat ground I had to turn and pull it up the hillside- since I was working on the slope having the 30cc saw handy was helpful for cutting off pieces while I arranged the rigging and did the pull.
It's all about the oiler... there are recommended bar lengths for that reason alone...
Jeekinz
ArboristSite Operative
Get a kidney belt.
I use a 25cc clone for limbing, replaced the 12" bar with a 14. I could run a 16 no problem, maybe 18.
I use a 25cc clone for limbing, replaced the 12" bar with a 14. I could run a 16 no problem, maybe 18.
So i guess there is no shortcut. Whatever the saw or bar, labour has to be put in.
I ve been doing exercises with 25lbs weight, hoping to figure out best posture and ergonomics. I dont have usually back problems, i was just astonished how few hours working with light saw (sloped terrain though) fatigues.
Thanks everyone for the input.
I ve been doing exercises with 25lbs weight, hoping to figure out best posture and ergonomics. I dont have usually back problems, i was just astonished how few hours working with light saw (sloped terrain though) fatigues.
Thanks everyone for the input.
Sidecarflip
Addicted to ArboristSite
I find BBR's YT video's to be just entertainment, just like most YT vids I watch when I have nothing better to occupy my idle time. Eh?
He does have some that are quite good. Several on filing a chain that are very specific with great photography, sharpening and hanging an axe and last week he did one on dropping a 4ft DBH maple explaining how he was doing it, what he was looking at etc that was a great lesson in odd trees being dropped next to a structure.
Sidecarflip
Addicted to ArboristSite
Typical monetized YT creator. He gets paid to provide his video's and people that subscribe to his channel determines how much he is compensated.
That applies to ALL YT video's, not just his.
Nothing is free today. Not even the air you breathe....
That applies to ALL YT video's, not just his.
Nothing is free today. Not even the air you breathe....
Yes!
My use case is similar though I tend to cut larger trees. 15 to 20" at the stump is common.
6'3" coming on 70years old, 5-10 cord a year of firewood.
Due to a severe motorcycle race crash 40 years ago I must be very careful of my back.
My felling cut is at waist height.
I cut, buck, and split my wood where it falls.
I studiously avoid lifting anything heavy. Am especially careful to use my knees, not my back. Roll rounds to where i can split them if needed.
After the felling cut I take off one round, then leave the final round on the stump and split it right there without moving it.
Seldom if ever carry anything uphill. Noodle or use the gas splitter for hard to split wood.
I try to keep the tasks varied, in general, a tank of gas, hand split (8 pound), then stack or load to vehicle, repeat. About 4-5 hours with several breaks is a good day.
A 20" 261 is my bucking saw now. I'm not afraid to kneel while bucking, let the dogs hold the saw weight.
Stand and top cut/buck about 6-8' of trunk before making a full bottom up cut then roll and complete the bucking cuts standing up.
I had a log roller peavy for a while but never used it.
I'm watching for a Milwaukee 16" battery saw. Cuz I've committed to the M18 system.
I stay ahead on firewood in the racks so other than storm damage we cut in dry cool weather, when it's a joy to be in the woods.
Wood heat keeps me young!
When I look around at my peer group, wow! I more and more think it's true.
My use case is similar though I tend to cut larger trees. 15 to 20" at the stump is common.
6'3" coming on 70years old, 5-10 cord a year of firewood.
Due to a severe motorcycle race crash 40 years ago I must be very careful of my back.
My felling cut is at waist height.
I cut, buck, and split my wood where it falls.
I studiously avoid lifting anything heavy. Am especially careful to use my knees, not my back. Roll rounds to where i can split them if needed.
After the felling cut I take off one round, then leave the final round on the stump and split it right there without moving it.
Seldom if ever carry anything uphill. Noodle or use the gas splitter for hard to split wood.
I try to keep the tasks varied, in general, a tank of gas, hand split (8 pound), then stack or load to vehicle, repeat. About 4-5 hours with several breaks is a good day.
A 20" 261 is my bucking saw now. I'm not afraid to kneel while bucking, let the dogs hold the saw weight.
Stand and top cut/buck about 6-8' of trunk before making a full bottom up cut then roll and complete the bucking cuts standing up.
I had a log roller peavy for a while but never used it.
I'm watching for a Milwaukee 16" battery saw. Cuz I've committed to the M18 system.
I stay ahead on firewood in the racks so other than storm damage we cut in dry cool weather, when it's a joy to be in the woods.
Wood heat keeps me young!
When I look around at my peer group, wow! I more and more think it's true.
Kdavis2685
ArboristSite Lurker
I think BBR is genuinely a nice guy and trying to give good advice...but advice is still subjective to a person and their equipment, experience, and situations. Bucking wood where it fell will keep the tree free of dirt versus dragging. I think others are right about using machines to transport wood after it's been bucked on the spot.
A pro 60cc or 70cc saw is expensive...heck a pro 50cc saw is expensive. But, what they are is light, durable, and they cut fast so you get less fatigued. It is very true the oiler ability is 50% of the recommended bar size by manufacturer - the other 50% is the torque and ability of the saw to pull it in hardwood. So don't go larger than they recommend. 20 is max on 50cc. 28 is about max on 60cc, and 32 is about max on 70cc. If you use a full skip chain in softwoods, then you can go up 1 bar size, but it can still be hard on the saw.
I suggest an ms261cm with 20 in bar if you don't have over 1g to spend.
Use a kidney belt bucking.
I also find kneeling to really help when bucking a log you know won't roll. I find standing with a big bar exclusively to be overrated. My 130lb wife often bucks big chunks on the ground while kneeling with a 462/32bc, and she loves it.
If you can afford it, get a ms400cm or ms462cm. The nice thing about the big saws is their power. They take less technique due to the torque they produce. Kickback is also less severe with longer bars. So learning to buck with one is actually easier. Make sure to have wedges to get that big bar unstuck when you get pinched. Or have a second bar and chain handy. The danger of big saws is their felling ability, combined with users who don't understand felling dangers. Bucking has danger too, but it's much less on flat ground.
You will absolutely be scared of a big saw at first. That's good. Let that fear keep you from felling until others have taught you how. As far as bucking, it makes it so much easier whether you kneel or stand having a big light pro saw. Get an echo in the 50-70cc range if you can't afford a pro stihl or husky.
A pro 60cc or 70cc saw is expensive...heck a pro 50cc saw is expensive. But, what they are is light, durable, and they cut fast so you get less fatigued. It is very true the oiler ability is 50% of the recommended bar size by manufacturer - the other 50% is the torque and ability of the saw to pull it in hardwood. So don't go larger than they recommend. 20 is max on 50cc. 28 is about max on 60cc, and 32 is about max on 70cc. If you use a full skip chain in softwoods, then you can go up 1 bar size, but it can still be hard on the saw.
I suggest an ms261cm with 20 in bar if you don't have over 1g to spend.
Use a kidney belt bucking.
I also find kneeling to really help when bucking a log you know won't roll. I find standing with a big bar exclusively to be overrated. My 130lb wife often bucks big chunks on the ground while kneeling with a 462/32bc, and she loves it.
If you can afford it, get a ms400cm or ms462cm. The nice thing about the big saws is their power. They take less technique due to the torque they produce. Kickback is also less severe with longer bars. So learning to buck with one is actually easier. Make sure to have wedges to get that big bar unstuck when you get pinched. Or have a second bar and chain handy. The danger of big saws is their felling ability, combined with users who don't understand felling dangers. Bucking has danger too, but it's much less on flat ground.
You will absolutely be scared of a big saw at first. That's good. Let that fear keep you from felling until others have taught you how. As far as bucking, it makes it so much easier whether you kneel or stand having a big light pro saw. Get an echo in the 50-70cc range if you can't afford a pro stihl or husky.
Who, Buckin Billy? Of course he makes money from the YT video's, his gear store, subscribers etc and he is not hiding the ball on this either. He is pretty upfront on it.
This comment rings true for me:
"A pro 60cc or 70cc saw is expensive...heck a pro 50cc saw is expensive. But, what they are is light, durable, and they cut fast so you get less fatigued."
I have larger saws, but also a couple Husqvarna 350 's and a Stihl 261 - all with 16" bars. These saws are gems ! They have terrific power and I really don't spend as much TIME cutting. My 40cc saw is handy, but has much less power and therefore needs more time in larger wood. I kinda suggest a 50cc saw for your larger wood and a back ache. I kinda think that any saw with a flat base cylinder (not integrated clamshell cylinder) would probably be just fine. A Stihl 250 (clamshell cylinder) is a decently built chainsaw, but will NOT have the power of a 261 (flat base cylinder). I am not intimately familiar with Echo saws, but it seems like others recommended a 501, and this feels good too.
I have never had a problem with too much power in a chainsaw.
Oh, also, always, always maintain a very sharp chain and trim the rakers too. If you have to lift more than a few pounds of pressure on the handle to get the chain to bite, your rakers are too tall. Ideally, your saw should simply fall through the wood with VERY minimal encouragement. If your chain setup is correct for your wood and powerhead, your overall fatigue will decline considerably!
Dave
"A pro 60cc or 70cc saw is expensive...heck a pro 50cc saw is expensive. But, what they are is light, durable, and they cut fast so you get less fatigued."
I have larger saws, but also a couple Husqvarna 350 's and a Stihl 261 - all with 16" bars. These saws are gems ! They have terrific power and I really don't spend as much TIME cutting. My 40cc saw is handy, but has much less power and therefore needs more time in larger wood. I kinda suggest a 50cc saw for your larger wood and a back ache. I kinda think that any saw with a flat base cylinder (not integrated clamshell cylinder) would probably be just fine. A Stihl 250 (clamshell cylinder) is a decently built chainsaw, but will NOT have the power of a 261 (flat base cylinder). I am not intimately familiar with Echo saws, but it seems like others recommended a 501, and this feels good too.
I have never had a problem with too much power in a chainsaw.
Oh, also, always, always maintain a very sharp chain and trim the rakers too. If you have to lift more than a few pounds of pressure on the handle to get the chain to bite, your rakers are too tall. Ideally, your saw should simply fall through the wood with VERY minimal encouragement. If your chain setup is correct for your wood and powerhead, your overall fatigue will decline considerably!
Dave
Jeekinz
ArboristSite Operative
You guys raggin on him, wheres your yt vids or source of useful information? Im not a fanboy, but the guy does give good advice as far as felling trees goes. Personally I skip the added jargon. But he deserves the money he works for.
His 32" axe hafts are good, bought one of them for the head of an axe I messed up as a kid. I did the BBR subscriber thing briefly, which amounts to the occasional video of him responding to people typing in the live chat, thanking them for donations etc... not really the sort of "community" I'm into. I do appreciate the techniques he shows in his felling vids though, I've adopted a few and I'm a big fan of his messages relating to being of service to others for free and for fun 
Comparing to the 311, for ~$30 more, you can pickup a new standard 261, it will pull a 25" bar quite well in stock form, especially for your intended purpose.
It could also pull a 28" bar for reaching the small stuff.
For either, I would recommend a .050 gauge, lightweight bar.
And if you decide to get it ported, you'll get higher power output from the standard 261 than the 261C.
As mentioned before, core & specific weight lifting exercises will go a long way for a sore back, especially down the line.
Mad3400
It could also pull a 28" bar for reaching the small stuff.
For either, I would recommend a .050 gauge, lightweight bar.
And if you decide to get it ported, you'll get higher power output from the standard 261 than the 261C.
As mentioned before, core & specific weight lifting exercises will go a long way for a sore back, especially down the line.
Mad3400
Do you change sprocket to 3/8 on 261 to run 20" + bars ?
Would standard 3/8, 20" + bars fit the housing ?
Thanks
From the factory, the 261 will come with a 20", .325 bar.
But if you go with a longer bar, it will most likely be 3/8,
So, Yes you will need to change the rim sprocket to 3/8-7 Tooth.
And Yes a Standard 20", 3/8 Bar will fit.
Mad3400
A lot of guys are yapping about weight, and core strength, and blah blah blah. Fact is, you are spending a lot of time hunched over with a puny little saw and a dinky ass bar, especially for a guy that's 6'4.
Kdavis2685
ArboristSite Lurker
Agreed. Kneeling and a back brace are going to be the ticket.
A ms400 with 28 light bar and 33RSF full skip chain would be as big as you can go and still seem light, but you'll also still be hunched over.
As tall as you are, you won't be able to stand up and buck until you have a 36" bar, and then you'll have a heavy saw like a 500i or 661, which is a chore to wield for long unless you do it a lot.
