Do we REALLY want regulatory control?

[treevet]

.

The problem is that the guys who don't follow the rules or know what they are meant to be doing have an easier time of it because someone else has to pay the price for their ineptitude. Why should all off the guys who work harder to obtain more knowledge and qualification be tarred with the same brush that the cowboy with a pickup and a chainsaw so rightly deserves.

It is not all roses for the hacks. One service that operates in my niche area has 3 known aliases in big letters on 3 different truck/chipper set ups. They drive 50 miles from Dayton Ohio to get here. Why can't they work up there....likely court involvements. That is not an easy life. But it is also not an easy life for the thief that sneaks out on a cold dark night to rob the honest hard working guy.

The first step towards a world with better tree's is recognizing that there is such a thing as a recognizable tree expert and then marketing this concept to joe public.

Let's have a chant....ISA.....ISA......ISA....

It is not perfect but it is the best we have, it is getting better and the hacks are never going to join. Losing this org. would be akin to traveling back to the Stone Age.

Now if the government, at any level, just said you had to have the appropriate ISA (ISA) certification (which follows ANSI standards) and that is IT....then I would jump on the govt. bandwagon. Other than that I have never advocated govt. reg.

I dare you to find it JM.

 

[treevet]

If you can't compete out perform hacks then why are you complaining about them?

I'm doing just fine thank you very much. You on the other hand might be able to drive an 86 Toyo pick up instead of that POS 85 you drive around now if you took some positive steps.

I have 9 Trucks, massive amounts of equipment, a nice house in the suburbs, drive around in a new BMW station wagon and put 4 kids thru college......just with my company.....myself...and 1 groundman that doesn't climb. Might sound condescending but I am proud of what I have done so far and thankful for my profession and the organizations that support it.

You sourgrapes guys are a miserable lot I surmise.

 

[clearance]

[QUOTE}



Let's have a chant....ISA.....ISA......ISA....

It is not perfect but it is the best we have, it is getting better [/QUOTE]

Chanting is for the non thinkers.

How about the ISA get some integrity, police thier members, quit being money grabbers and so forth? Some ISA types here call me a hack because I climb with spurs, meanwhile I am supervised by ISA people. Stuff like that, pathetic.

 

[jomoco]

You just admitted to being for it yu goof ball!

Poor TV needs the ISA/GOVT to compete in a free natnl market?

Poor darling.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

You just admitted to being for it yu goof ball!

Poor TV needs the ISA/GOVT to compete in a free natnl market?

Poor darling.

jomoco

wtf is a natnl market sweetie. speak de english.

Where's your boy LXT? Or are you the same guy....LXT in the daytime and Jomoco in the evening lol.

 

[mckeetree]

[QUOTE}

Some ISA types here call me a hack because I climb with spurs

Based on your post as far as myself and anybody else at my company could ever tell you are a hack.

 

[jomoco]

wtf is a natnl market sweetie. speak de english.

Where's your boy LXT? Or are you the same guy....LXT in the daytime and Jomoco in the evening lol.

Within the US einstein.

jomoco

 

[RedlineIt]

jomoco,

I just don't get it when guys like peeker and tv get all red, white and blue ronnie raygun deregulation rules in one forum, then waltz on over to commercial tree care and spout the exact opposite without being called out as blowhard hypocrites? That's all.

jomoco

I assume you mean the Politics Forum.

Well, then, have at them there, not here. This is Commercial Tree Care and Climbing.

RedlineIt

 

[deeker]

Looks as though one of the important (NUTJOBS) on this thread objects to my posts.

Well damn, jerkamole....I forgot my place.

Anyone want to buy my sawmill, and several used Stihl's??? An 088, 0380AVM and several others....even a JRed 920....

Just for you jerkinthemole....I make my living with my saws......

And unlike jerkinthemole....

I sign my name.

Kevin

 

[RedlineIt]

Hiya Deeker!

I love the Psalms too!

Psalms 106:29 "As they were causing offense by their dealings, a scourge broke out amomg them."

Gotta love the the Bible, in thirty seconds you can find #### more pious than the last #######!

RedlineIt

 

[outofmytree]

I have read the "red" part....you have failed to answer how we enforce the Ansi standards we already have????? you have failed to mention where this Money will come from???? you have failed to realize... that more dont care than do care & therefore our field is not a "current" priority!!

IN MY VAST EXPERIENCE......I dont know how many times I can keep telling this guy this.... Untill our field has a degree associated with it making the CA credential a "necessity" to have for work in this field......& to have the ability to enforce rules that already exist....then all we are discussing here doesnt mean crap!

As mean & cruel as some will find this: our field doesnt hold that much of a priority for regulation, enforcement or to become a degree course....if it truly ranked with...say a Nurse, then there would be courses at colleges offering Associate degrees, etc... & the CA wouldnt be "certified" it would be a mandatory License!!! here in PA an LPN.....even has a degree associated with it!!

Your mind & heart might be in the right place but here in the states it takes money to implement things, to obtain money to put forth any type of license, degree program or other is not gonna be a burden the American Tax Payer is gonna foot................So untill you figure out where the $$$$ will come from to do that which you are stating then your point is a moot one at best!

so the 1,2,3s you have mentioned......goodluck with that, we already have training for tree workers along with knowledge based studies! Who may work for gain or profit by regulation I have already explained to you several times.
Public education has been an ongoing thing that ISA, TCIA & the Arbor day foundation have been doing for years........they can only do what the $$$ lets em do!!

SOooooo until you come up with those solutions...then things here will keep on keeping on!!


LXT................

outofmytree.

We have exactly the same problem. Like I said. Three things are needed.

1.More skills and knowledge for ALL tree workers

2.Regulation as to who may work for gain or profit on trees of a given size

3.Public education so everyone knows that tree work is a skilled trade that must be done by skilled trades people.

The trick of course is finding a system which works in each different country. I doubt there is a one-size-fits-all solution but the bare bones of it will be similar.

outofmytree.
I would suggest that the first and most obvious step would be to regulate at local govt level. Require any work on trees over a given size to be subject to the issue of a permit at a nominal value. The only persons able to gain said permit would be those businesses with the appropriate certification.

Read item 2 again. Then read the quoted section above. I did think this idea was simple enough to digest but in fairness I did only post this 3 previous times.

outofmytree.
I recently tendered for a City pruning contract and took some time to chat with the tender officers after submission. Since engaging a CertV arborist (our highest qualification) they estimate to have saved over a million dollars by changing their pruning practises. A million dollars in one city council dude! There more than 25 city councils in the metropolitan area in Perth!

Guess how the majority of money was saved? By abandoning topping, applying restorative pruning where possible and picking appropriate tree species for confined areas. Sounds like common sense doesnt it.

If a local govt/city council follows this simple proven idea the money saved would be more than adequate to cover any costs associated with inspecting work after issue of the above work permit and confirm it meets standards. I have no fear of someone inspecting my work in fact, if you care to look in the video forum, I am proud of my work and take video's to show future clients. So the concept of a city employed arborist checking out my work is like free advertising!

If more companies work to the existing standards then everyone wins. We have healthier trees that are safer for our kids to play under and are a long term asset for everyone living in that street.

I am sure there are many other ways to promote better work. Don't you think it's time you threw out an idea for discussion?

 

[BC WetCoast]

[QUOTE}



Let's have a chant....ISA.....ISA......ISA....

It is not perfect but it is the best we have, it is getting better

Chanting is for the non thinkers.

How about the ISA get some integrity, police thier members, quit being money grabbers and so forth? Some ISA types here call me a hack because I climb with spurs, meanwhile I am supervised by ISA people. Stuff like that, pathetic.[/QUOTE]

You can throw them spurs away once you start at Bartlett.

 

[clearance]

Chanting is for the non thinkers.

How about the ISA get some integrity, police thier members, quit being money grabbers and so forth? Some ISA types here call me a hack because I climb with spurs, meanwhile I am supervised by ISA people. Stuff like that, pathetic.

You can throw them spurs away once you start at Bartlett.[/QUOTE]

Ain't gonna happen, heard enough already from decent people here. Anyways, what about BC Hydro, all of the veg guys ISA certified, watching people climb with spurs to trim, always?

 

[BC WetCoast]

You can throw them spurs away once you start at Bartlett.

Ain't gonna happen, heard enough already from decent people here. Anyways, what about BC Hydro, all of the veg guys ISA certified, watching people climb with spurs to trim, always?[/QUOTE]

Are they ISA certified or CUA?

Anyway, you obviously haven't read the ISA Code of Ethics, which governs how a CA should practice.

I quote a couple of items

Certified Arborist compliance with all organizational rules, policies and legal
requirements. Certificants and candidates must:
1. Comply with all applicable laws, regulations, policies and ethical standards
governing professional practice of arboriculture.
2. Comply with all accepted professional standards related to arboriculture
practice, including national practice standards and policies.

The entire Code of Ethics - http://www.isa-arbor.com/certification/resources/ISACertifiedArboristCodeofEthics.pdf

By reading item 2, you will note that it states accepted professional standards including national practice standards. I see nothing that says using spurs when doing powerline clearance pruning is wrong, if it is according to accepted professional standards.

I suspect that many on this board haven't read the Code either and while the ISA promotes the use of spurless climbing to prune residential trees, it makes no comment on those trees that are pruned for line clearance. Given how these trees must be pruned in order to meet the standards of the contract, spurring them is the least of their problem.

It's time to give up your rant on Veg Managers who are CA authorizing the use of spurs.

 

[lxt]

Im right here treevet...I think you & mckee do the wrap around while patting each other on the back!!

My name is Doug & yes I do have a lawn care/Landscape section in my Biz, I have a crew of 4 that take care of that side of the Biz, I work the tree side but oversee it all, I have a stump grinding crew too!!

wheres your site granpa? what is your age? Im thinking in reality you`re 65+ which would explain your bitterness, your old, SSI is low, medicare dont cover enough, Va wont help ya, etc... You like to read...good for you, keep reading (put those bi`s on)...when you feel spry....Im not hard to find!!!

Cmon on over & teach me big boy!! If you have half of what you say & have the talent to back your old toothless azz....then Ill listen to what you have to say...

Till then......guys like you & Mckee are a dime a dozen...big mouths with no talent, show us something!! a site, pics of work...something!

I did not wont this to become a name calling, degrading thread... so I apologize for such, however...........those not from America!!! dont know & therefore couldnt even begin to understand how things here work!!!!!

Those such as Treevet & Mckee........are lttle kids in the playground..yelling pick me, picke me!! no one ever does or did, we all know why!!!

I dont wish to continue with the way this is going, untill it becomes a discussion......Im pretty much done! Its about regulatory control over our field........Not verbally bash each other!

One poster asked me to describe Ansi & explain Act & regulations & such......Im not ignoring you!! but why, really.... someone will post a dictionary version another the law version someone else the spirit of the law version & so on......just to start another battle of words!!

Bottom line is....this is America & if its my property that I pay taxes for...then who is anyone to regulate what I can/cannot do to my tree(s), lawn, shrubs etc... as long as it doesnt adversely affect anyone! Businesses are already regulated by labor laws & such, Ansi is our guide??? My biz is registered...& if anyone wants to come out & watch us...thats fine!! I worked a state park contract under DCNR supervision........you think it gets much stricter, BTW....the supervisor was an ISA CA & I wasnt at that time...He told me my knowledge & plan was better than the other companies who had ISA CA`s..............So I got the job, Go Figure!!

I wish the best to all here, be safe & be careful!!!

LXT..........

 

[lxt]

Read item 2 again. Then read the quoted section above. I did think this idea was simple enough to digest but in fairness I did only post this 3 previous times.



If a local govt/city council follows this simple proven idea the money saved would be more than adequate to cover any costs associated with inspecting work after issue of the above work permit and confirm it meets standards. I have no fear of someone inspecting my work in fact, if you care to look in the video forum, I am proud of my work and take video's to show future clients. So the concept of a city employed arborist checking out my work is like free advertising!

If more companies work to the existing standards then everyone wins. We have healthier trees that are safer for our kids to play under and are a long term asset for everyone living in that street.

I am sure there are many other ways to promote better work. Don't you think it's time you threw out an idea for discussion?

I have read your 3 time posting....... you still dont get it!!! & im not gonna continue to post the same thing in regards to your posts! It doesnt get through to you!! hell come over to the US & fix us...its so easy..I mean hell....some of you guys have all the answers

I did give you what needs to be done to a certain degree!!! again I`ll ask?

WHERE IS THE $$$$ GOING TO COME FROM...you are good at saying this & that..........be real whew.......Again....Trees are not a priority nor tree care services that the Govt will impose mandatory regulations on how biz`s perform tree care functions!!! if you think so...Good for you!!

Funny......most want to use climate change as a way for regulation, these are the same azzes who on political threads would claim CC doesnt exist & Al gore is full of it!! hypocrites!! they use what they can when it profits for them!!! but would bash a certain party for doing the same!!!

Oomt, good luck...be safe & careful in what you do!!


LXT..............

 

[lxt]

I have 9 Trucks, massive amounts of equipment, a nice house in the suburbs, drive around in a new BMW station wagon and put 4 kids thru college......just with my company.....myself...and 1 groundman that doesn't climb. Might sound condescending but I am proud of what I have done so far and thankful for my profession and the organizations that support .

And no website!! show us oh great treevet of the heavens.....Cause you are full of sh:censored:t, you did all this in the ohio market??? c`mon show us the equipment!!! you have so much!! hell that would be a division in line clearance................

with just you & 1 ground guy?? then what do you need 9 trucks for? even if the 4 kids, old lady you & the ground guy worked....that would still leave 2 trucks sitting? And im a blowhard????? you sir can exaggerate with the best of em !!!!

what a laugh you just gave me :greenchainsaw:


LXT...............

 

[treevet]

And no website!! show us oh great treevet of the heavens.....Cause you are full of sh:censored:t, you did all this in the ohio market??? c`mon show us the equipment!!! you have so much!! hell that would be a division in line clearance................

with just you & 1 ground guy?? then what do you need 9 trucks for? even if the 4 kids, old lady you & the ground guy worked....that would still leave 2 trucks sitting? And im a blowhard????? you sir can exaggerate with the best of em !!!!

what a laugh you just gave me :greenchainsaw:


LXT...............

Don't wet your pants boy.

They all get used including a dump trailer, a tilt trailer for my new Dingo skid steer, 2 stump grinders and 2 woodchippers, a spray rig, a TW5 with 30 ft. conveyor, and around 12 plus good running stihl saws etc etc. Makes the job easier to have all of this and I love to buy stuff.

You lay down 50 bucks in front of this forum and I will post picts of every one of them. You'll see some of em on here....www.shawtreesurgeons.com

Don't think there is any equipment on your dad's site is there?

 

[lxt]

thats a nice website you got!! & dont worry I wont wet my self, LOL

On MY site! there will be a video coming...showing the League in action! & my dad just might be on there....

C`mon vet $50 bucks........thats chump change for you!! LOL

Now....Ill alert you for when the Vid is up n running......strap on them depends, take your laxatives & watch how the big boys play!!!....Just kidding..Looks like you have a nice site & toys...



LXT......................

 

[treevet]

I'll be sitting by the computer waiting breathlessly til the vid makes its debut