Done with bad fuel !

[HansFranz]

I have a 1929 Kohler 4 cylinder automatic start generator ... I have lots of different generators but that little Kohler 1A21 is the crown jewel set a glass of beer on the valve cover and not a ripple.

Sounds like a sweet unit ... I, for one, would love to see some pics or a video of it running!

 

[JimR]

People used to leave fuel in cans laying around WITHOUT LIDS when I was a kid, dump it in equipment that sat 11 months a year, and it would start in 3 pulls TOPS!

Try that with ANY ethanol-diluted gasoline.

I have used tightly sealed old gas that has been winterized without any issues. Last Fall I used my 395XP that had sat with gas in it for at least 5 years without any problems. I just ran my 346XP that was put away last October with gas in it without any issues. My two big riding mowers are the same way. Every Spring they fire right up with the old stabilized gas in them.

 

[Bill G]

It is inferior in performance and storage, and has a significantly higher carbon intensity than gasoline. But by all means, keep talking it up.

The quote of mine you referenced was a comment I made about Indy cars running it. If you feel that it has inferior performance I guess you know more than the folks building the cars. That must be the case as you in so much said that in a earlier post. I do not know it for a fact but I am betting they are not too concerned about what you call it's significantly higher carbon intensity and as for storage I doubt that is something they worry about either.

You got the first good chuckle out of me to start the day.

 

[JimR]

I am sure they did but that is in the past and we must operate in today's world. We may not like it but whining about it while being to lazy to deal with it get a guy no where. You are in the fine state of Massachusetts the majority of the folks voting in past elections put the dipstickss in office that enacted the laws that you are whining about. Do something about it...you are hurting for certain... so get the medicine.

I too live in the sh-t State of Taxachusetts and hate the fact that we cannot purchase ethanol free gas here. This State is loaded with fools that vote stupid. There is no way of defeating them in Office. It is like California except on the East coast.

 

[JRM]

The quote of mine you referenced was a comment I made about Indy cars running it. If you feel that it has inferior performance I guess you know more than the folks building the cars. That must be the case as you in so much said that in a earlier post. I do not know it for a fact but I am betting they are not too concerned about what you call it's significantly higher carbon intensity and as for storage I doubt that is something they worry about either.

You got the first good chuckle out of me to start the day.

Your talking about ethanol, and yes it in general is inferior in everyway compared to gasoline. What race teams use has zero to do with what we get for day to day use. They use straight water in their cooling systems and 60w oil in their engines, how do you suppose either would fair in the real world. The racing world and the real world is so far apart in relevance it is impossible to try and connect those dots.
But by all means, Keep moving the goal posts. You are great at it.

 

[Bill G]

..... You repair enough small engine units & you see the downside of improper fuel storage & usage .

You hit the nail on the head in regards to what I have been saying. The fuel issues are caused by the actions of the owner not the fuel. The fact is things change and we must change and adapt to the changes. We do not have to like the changes but the change is inevitable.

 

[Bill G]

And who the hell are you calling lazy? ,.......

That is easy to answer....the folks that whine about ethanol but are too lazy to figure out how to deal with it. There are a lot of things in life I do not like but I have to deal with them.

 

[Bill G]

I agree its not the devils fuel , if used correctly its a serviceable gasoline .

The key is just as you said....used correctly.

 

[Bill G]

I too live in the sh-t State of Taxachusetts and hate the fact that we cannot purchase ethanol free gas here. This State is loaded with fools that vote stupid. There is no way of defeating them in Office. It is like California except on the East coast.

It is crazy how each state has such widely different laws. I have heard stories of how much you folks can haul on your highways. If we hauled the loads you folks do we would have no roads left.

 

[Hermio]

Those are the engines that can run E85? Have you ever tried running it? All reports I've seen are not favorable. I've never owned a vehicle that is rated to run it.
Believe it or not, I've not seen one pump in North East Ohio that sells E85. I'm sure they are out there and I just haven't seen them but they aren't in my travels anywhere, and I live in a Ag heavy county.

E85 will naturally give worse fuel economy, as it is lower in energy content. But it will not hurt an engine designed for it.

 

[Hermio]

Your comparisons are irrelevant, once again. If your content buying a product that is inferior knock yourself out. The only reason ethanol exists is because the govt has made it profitable through subsidies and taxes has nothing to do with putting Americans to work. We could do that by drilling, too. And be a lot cheaper. You can drill oil without corn but you can't plant corn without oil, from the field to refinery oil powers ethanol production every step of the way. Talk about stoopid.

But by all means, keep moving the goal posts to support your position. HansFranz was right in his observation above.

You are out of date. Today, ethanol made from corn produces about 3-5 times as much energy as it takes to produce it. Ethanol made from inedible cellulosic biomass produces about 13 times as much. Today's biorefineries actually sell the excess energy they produce besides that in the fuel. As for use in a chainsaw, I would prefer non-ethanol fuel because I am a seasonal user. But Sta-Bil has so far protected me from having any fuel-related problems.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Some great videos just came out on leaded fuel in aviation. Touches on the subject of ethanol in the 1st part, so perfect for this thread:

Part 1:

Part 2:

 

[Hermio]

Very interesting. I certainly would not want leaded avgas in my chainsaw.

 

[Bill G]

E85 will naturally give worse fuel economy, as it is lower in energy content. But it will not hurt an engine designed for it.

I have heard varying numbers in relation to the drop in mileage when running E85. The worst I have heard is 20 percent. When we had vehicles that could burn it that was the price that I based my choice on. As long as the price of E85 was at least 20 percent under E10 then I went with the E85. A few weeks ago when gas was at about $4.75 a gallon the E85 was $3 do it was cost effective for folks to run it. Currently our gas is at $3.56 and E85 is still $3 so now E85 is not cost effective to run.

 

[JRM]

You are out of date. Today, ethanol made from corn produces about 3-5 times as much energy as it takes to produce it. Ethanol made from inedible cellulosic biomass produces about 13 times as much. Today's biorefineries actually sell the excess energy they produce besides that in the fuel. As for use in a chainsaw, I would prefer non-ethanol fuel because I am a seasonal user. But Sta-Bil has so far protected me from having any fuel-related problems.

None of that changes the fact that it is inferior to gasoline. Just because the technology to produce it has gotten better doesnt mean it is anymore of a benefit to the environment. And again, it doesn't perform the same.
What's your view on the carbon intensity of ethanol compared to oil?

 

[Hermio]

None of that changes the fact that it is inferior to gasoline. Just because the technology to produce it has gotten better doesnt mean it is anymore of a benefit to the environment. And again, it doesn't perform the same.
What's your view on the carbon intensity of ethanol compared to oil?

I don't care about carbon intensity. I believe that climate change is real, but has very little to do with human activity. I do not want to hijack this thread on that topic. But the "inferior to gasoline" comment depends on what measure you use. Does it burn cleaner? Absolutely. Is it renewable? Yes. On these two measures it is superior to gasoline. Does it get worse fuel economy? Yes. Is it more corrosive to system components? Yes, but only if it absorbs some water, which it does with time unless used quickly. On these two scores, it is inferior to gasoline. As for performance, high performance engines with high compression actually generate more power per cubic inch with ethanol than gasoline. Ask any drag racing afficionado or an Indy car driver. As for me, I wish all cars were equipped with flex fuel engines so we could each decide based on the current fuel economics. But I don't think this would be practical for most 2-cycle applications, as the oil in the fuel mix will separate out beyond a certain % ethanol, and the run time per tank would be less with higher ethanol percentages. Since we do not have ethanol free gasoline in our area, I must either buy premixed fuel (very expensive!) or use 10% ethanol with Sta-Bil or equivalent. The latter approach has worked for me for 40+ years with no fuel-related problems, and I am a seasonal user, so my fuel can is unused about 9-10 months of the year. I understand that some 2 cycle oils already have fuel stabilizers in them, so use of Sta-Bil might not always be necessary.

 

[North by Northwest]

I don't care about carbon intensity. I believe that climate change is real, but has very little to do with human activity. I do not want to hijack this thread on that topic. But the "inferior to gasoline" comment depends on what measure you use. Does it burn cleaner? Absolutely. Is it renewable? Yes. On these two measures it is superior to gasoline. Does it get worse fuel economy? Yes. Is it more corrosive to system components? Yes, but only if it absorbs some water, which it does with time unless used quickly. On these two scores, it is inferior to gasoline. As for performance, high performance engines with high compression actually generate more power per cubic inch with ethanol than gasoline. Ask any drag racing afficionado or an Indy car driver. As for me, I wish all cars were equipped with flex fuel engines so we could each decide based on the current fuel economics. But I don't think this would be practical for most 2-cycle applications, as the oil in the fuel mix will separate out beyond a certain % ethanol, and the run time per tank would be less with higher ethanol percentages. Since we do not have ethanol free gasoline in our area, I must either buy premixed fuel (very expensive!) or use 10% ethanol with Sta-Bil or equivalent. The latter approach has worked for me for 40+ years with no fuel-related problems, and I am a seasonal user, so my fuel can is unused about 9-10 months of the year. I understand that some 2 cycle oils already have fuel stabilizers in them, so use of Sta-Bil might not always be necessary.

Well said , and absolutely correct !

 

[JRM]

Unless you are an Indy car driver it sounds like we are in agreement ethanol is inferior to gasoline - for those of us that have to live with it day to day.
As to not caring about carbon intensity it is understandable that not many are familiar with it, and therefore don't care about it. I encourage anyone that thinks ethanol is better for the environment to research its carbon intensity. It's a good thing to have an understanding of - and you just may change your opinion on the "better for the environment " shtick.

 

[North by Northwest]

Very interesting. I certainly would not want leaded avgas in my chainsaw.

lead has its inherent benefits within a 4 cycle engine as does sulphur & phosphorus , not a benefit within 2 T engines !

 

[North by Northwest]

You are out of date. Today, ethanol made from corn produces about 3-5 times as much energy as it takes to produce it. Ethanol made from inedible cellulosic biomass produces about 13 times as much. Today's biorefineries actually sell the excess energy they produce besides that in the fuel. As for use in a chainsaw, I would prefer non-ethanol fuel because I am a seasonal user. But Sta-Bil has so far protected me from having any fuel-related problems.

unleaded E0 is the preferred fuel for the majority of firewood saws . When you start porting & changing the dynamics of the saw , higher octane levels can achieve better performance within a properly tuned saw .