Double tie in point?

[ROLLACOSTA]

surely any climber whos any good ties in twice on a regular basis i do and so does most if not all the climbers i have worked with

 

[blue]

rolla,
empty your mailbox

 

[BigJohn]

I'm not trying to criticize. I'm just being honest. I've been where you are. I've done it and got beyond it. Pick a good tie in point, choose good pathes, keep a straight rope angle, if you have to move your tie in point, think ahead so maybe you can move your TIP and still be able to keep your old one. There is no sense to be tied in twice for balance. Balance doesn't come from a rope it comes from your semi-circular canal in your inner ear and haveing enough strength and stamina. You can't get this if your not practiceing it. You can't have balance if you think about it. I too hate pole saws and pole clips. I get hell all the time cause mine are usually dull and rusty. I don't use them so I have no idea if they are sharp. I don't climb baby trees unless trees over 90 and less then 115 are babies. If you need stability remember the three point stance. One foot and a knee and maybe an elbow or even your head or shoulder. Three points of contact will help. Whats the difference between walking around the top of a dog wood with no saddle and handsaw or walking around the top of a 100 foot oak. The top is just a bunch of little dog wood trees. It's just gonna hurt a little more if you fall and we know that so our balance has a tendency to go out the window.

I'm not trying to give any ****. I'm just trying to help everyone understand that climbing isn't techniques and cool gear. Wouldn't it be great to climb like a squirrel? They never use a second TIP. You can do it too. I'm just saying stop using it build up your balance and strength and you'll be glad you did.

 

[blue]

BIG JOHN,
well sai ,you took the words straight out of my mouth

 

[wct4life]

John, I use a second TIP all the time. Because you can't work a live oak around these parts any other way.

When you dealing with trees that have a 150' dripline span and many leaders that rarely reach 65' there's no choice. There rarely
are any LO's that can be worked from one TIP. Those that can are usually babies.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I don't tie in twice for balance, I do it when the original TIP won't work as well as a new temporary TIP, and I want to keep my original TIP.
And yea, live oaks require new TIP all the time. Sometimes when I'm in the top of a monster, I'll set one or two more climb lines in different quadrants of the tree to save time and energy.
When I limb walk, it's one rope. Two would get in the way.

 

[wct4life]

When I limb walk, it's one rope. Two would get in the way

Here, Here!

 

[roachy]

Let me see ,One or two hmmmmm.I would say really it is situation dependent.I prune large spready trees constantly and would give this advice ,pick a tie in point that will handle most of your work and exhaust it .then go back up and pick another that will finish the job giving you all the comfort for the task.I find using two setups at one time very cumbersum.If I find myself in a situation wher it may be usefull to re tie I will use my tail and unhook my first system attatch it around the stem ,work off my tail and then return to the main tie in point.I will also use redirects of various types if necassarry.Two climbers in the tree is the best option and often eliminates all of this.(pruning only)
I would also add do what you are comfortable with learn what you can to increase your comfort levels .what may be good for some may not be for others.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by roachy
do what you are comfortable with learn what you can to increase your comfort levels .what may be good for some may not be for others.

So, you mean, it makes no sense to dis others for doing it a different way, expecially when they're working with different types of trees?

Makes sense to me. I'd like to see someone trim one of our 100' wide willow oaks with one tie-in and no polesaw. Come to think of it, I DID see that last week when NickfromWI pruned one with me. Learned a few tricks, but he did call 3 times for a polesaw tie-on.

 

[jkrueger]

Hey thanks!

Jim and Big John,

Thanks for the on time 'push'. Had a very spreading Chestnut today and always push myself. Had a very long limb walk, well for me, and used the 'super' lanyard. John will laugh at this. He parted to me a piece of hi-vi about 18ft., well I made it into a lanyard with the 'vt/kunt'. and used it instead of a redirect. What was nice for this senior was I didn't have to trace back through a redirect, just uncliped and snaped it back from my staring point.

Ahhh, tomorrow I have a tree the size that Big John likes, a very high, 95+ft, Black Walnut. It has braches all over the place. The drip line is prbably as big as the tree is high. OK, I'll plan a first TIP and no pole saw. Gez, it makes me excited.

Jack

 

[MasterBlaster]

I just use my tail as a super-long lanyard.

 

[murphy4trees]

I have worked enough with Jon to know his work and his personality well enough to say with certainty... He is not criticizing or "giving you a hard time".... He's encouraging all of us to reach outside our comfort zone and bump our climbing up to the next level... He's done that for me repeatedly... and if I ever get into shape again look out.... Here I come....
It's challenging giving and receiving that type of encouragement from a monitor screen... Jack made the effort to get togother and climb with Jon... Anyone here who doesn't believe or understand or like what Jon or Roachy is saying would do very well to gettogether and at least work the ground for a day with them... I actually have a lot of video of Jon working a tree... maybe edit that up and we can buy some bergers with the profit!

On a side note:
My in laws are gonna make it on America's funniest home videos this fall... I set up a zip line with a haul back in the back yard and when the dad was zipping, the line wraped around his 11 year old's ankle and the kid went flying feet first... Once I realized the kid wasn't hurt I was trying not to laugh cause the mic was picking me up...

PS still haven't got to see you climb Roachy.... Maybe we could do a day this fall??

 

[arboromega]

i will lean toward the climbers who rarely or not at all use the 2nd point. i almost never use it anymore. when i started climbing i used a 2nd point quite often. if it is a big tree i carry a couple loop runners and my 10' lanyard. you can redirect your original tie in point with a limb crotch or the loop runner quite easily. but do what you are comfortable with and keep it fun.

 

[Ax-man]

I don't use a second tie in very much, using an occasional redirect along with a DEDA lanyard there is really no need for a second tie in.

When and if the need comes along for a second tie in, is there a different method that can be used other than the tradititional way of doing it?? Pulling all that rope to the end and tieing a bowline with a long tail seems to be such a waste of time and energy.

Larry

 

[BigJohn]

Talk to Ken. He has some video. Maybe he could post some. I would if I knew how. I am not that computer savy. What is your email mike I could send you some and you could edit it.

 

[roachy]

Today I just found a good reason one might have two tie in points .I had to prune a huge willow oak in the rain and that gave me a few slippery moments.I still did,nt tie in twice but could have easily.
To answer the next question "why prune in the rain you idiot" I would say good question but my employer didnt think it was a big deal ,Of course not

 

[murphy4trees]

Ya... I gotta hook up the mini DV player etc...

 

[BigJohn]

Oh of course, now how would I have known that a double tie in would be good in the rain? I prefer not to climb in the rain and if I do I am usually pretty pissed so I don't see a reason to go out on the ends and I can't see that far with water drops and fog on the glasses. It all looks good to me. Today in the rain I got to clean up large fallen ash tree that took out a hickory and poplar on the way down and township decide to help they would bulldoze it up with some dirt. We got it done and I didn't get too dirty and I got in early.

 

[murphy4trees]

I don't like getting the climbing gear all dirty and wet etc... try to avoid working in the rain...

 

[BigJohn]

Me too. I know this guy who really tries to get me to work after work when there is threat of rain. Hmm...

I don't have the time at night to go washing and drying ropes just to dirty them again the next day. I don't even have time to pack a lunch.