Draft issues with stainless chimney

[ErnieG]

Looking at your first pic from outdoors. Your pipe is on the left side of the roof peak.
What direction does the prevailing/normal wind blow from?
Right to left by any chance?
Check the wind direction the next time you have back puffing,
Post what you find.
Keep working at it. Just a puzzle that needs the pieces put together correctly. Don't give up!!

Yes it usually is from peak of roof towards the pipe (right to left) .
I'm definitely gonna keep at it till I figure it out !

Thanks
Ernie

 

[moresnow]

Yes it usually is from peak of roof towards the pipe (right to left) .
I'm definitely gonna keep at it till I figure it out !

Thanks
Ernie

Yep. Right to left was my guess.
Monitor what effect the wind has on your back drafting events from here on.
Hard to believe but the roof peak/prevailing wind may be packing=pressuring your pipe termination or outlet.
It can be a real thing believe it or not!
The answer unfortunately is adding a pipe section. Give the pipe/venting some breathing space from the wind coming over the roof effect.

 

[.358 win]

Unless the pipe runs the whole way down to the floor, the chances of cold air naturally flowing down into a warm building are slim with a pipe terminating at or slightly below ceiling level. It's the same principal the chimney uses to pull draft, hot air rises. It's one of the reasons fresh air kits are installed through the wall, and close to ground level. Only thing that would make the attic pipe work well, is having negative pressure inside the building to pull the cold air from the attic down. (Forced draft situation, would be best vs natural draft.)
Having said that, the simple solution has already been tried, just leave a window cracked an inch or so and see if draft improves. If it doesn't, air exchange isn't the issue at hand.
I still, think the chimney system is fine in this case, it's just a quark of the stove that needs figured out, and having higher moisture wood isn't helping either.

We have the same ideas. The key here is balance, or vent.. The fire requires a steady air supply. How you choose to do that is up to you. A pressure vent has benefits. Such as reduced condensation, and a constant combustion air supply. What happens when you can't shut the door of the truck??? Till you crack the window..

 

[ErnieG]

This morning i went out and there was a few red embers left so I put two pieces of dry ash on it to get it going again and left the door cracked to catch then closed it ...half an hour later I went out before going to work and put three more pieces on it and it was going really good ..flue temp was around 350 so I closed the door and I can hear that it wasn't drafting so I cracked the door and it immediately took off ...closed the door and opened the draft till I can hear a steady flow of air but it never is a steady flow sound ...it's always a chugging or helicopter prop type noise I get
Id get a good puff of smoke out the vents and the chugging sound.
I'm experimenting with just one draft knob then two and making minor adjustments each time but nothing really seems to help much .
I'm really baffled at what to do here .

Ernie

 

[sean donato]

Cracking the door, meaning feed door or shop door?

 

[ErnieG]

Cracking the door, meaning feed door or shop door?

Feed door just to get the fire to pick up and the stove pipe warm .
It does burn very well when it's open

Ernie

 

[ErnieG]

It seems all my problems are just after filling with wood then once it settles it's ok but that first 10-15; minutes is the problem .
When I filled it this morning I did keep the wood down below the rear baffle inside the stove .

Ernie

 

[sean donato]

Well, I guess that makes sense if you're cracking the feed door and it's stopping then you're not getting enough air into the stove.
Have you noticed any difference when you clean the ash out of the bottom of the stove vs being full of ash? I'm wondering now if adding more wood is just blocking the fresh air from flowing into the stove efficiently.

 

[ErnieG]

I don't notice any difference either way ...I just emptied them the other day so there is minimal ashes in the bottom.
I really wish I had a buddy or somebody with a wood stove I can hook up and see if there is any difference that way I'd know if it's the stove or the chimney!
I'm half tempted to go buy a used stove just to try it for piece of mind ...

Ernie

Well, I guess that makes sense if you're cracking the feed door and it's stopping then you're not getting enough air into the stove.
Have you noticed any difference when you clean the ash out of the bottom of the stove vs being full of ash? I'm wondering now if adding more wood is just blocking the fresh air from flowing into the stove efficiently.

 

[Woodtroll]

On the woodstoves I have, I always put a damper in the flue pipe just above the stove. When it gets huffing like that, its burning faster than the air supply coming in can accommodate. You need a damper in the flue to balance what's coming in with what can escape. In other words, make the "out" hole smaller in relation to the "in" hole. Sort of like balancing saw muffler mods with the right intake/carburetor changes or tuning. That will settle things down on a stove that's burning that hot. It will also help hold the heat in the stove and make the fire last longer, but if you choke it down too much, especially if your wood is wet like you say, then you will create a creosote problem in your flue. The insulated pipe will help that some, but as you say it just takes some time and experience to sort things out and see what works best for your setup. The stoves in my house and workshop are very similar old-school design, venting into identical masonry flues of almost equal height, but they both have to be managed differently as far as loading and air flow.

If you stove has a built-in flue damper that I missed, or if you already know all this, then I apologize. This is offered in the spirit of help and not criticism.

 

[.358 win]

On the woodstoves I have, I always put a damper in the flue pipe just above the stove. When it gets huffing like that, its burning faster than the air supply coming in can accommodate. You need a damper in the flue to balance what's coming in with what can escape. In other words, make the "out" hole smaller in relation to the "in" hole. Sort of like balancing saw muffler mods with the right intake/carburetor changes or tuning. That will settle things down on a stove that's burning that hot. It will also help hold the heat in the stove and make the fire last longer, but if you choke it down too much, especially if your wood is wet like you say, then you will create a creosote problem in your flue. The insulated pipe will help that some, but as you say it just takes some time and experience to sort things out and see what works best for your setup. The stoves in my house and workshop are very similar old-school design, venting into identical masonry flues of almost equal height, but they both have to be managed differently as far as loading and air flow.

If you stove has a built-in flue damper that I missed, or if you already know all this, then I apologize. This is offered in the spirit of help and not criticism.

Your discription sounds like what could be called an "overfire". Thats when there is too much draft and the stove is being force fed, like a kiln. Which translates to " danger". So far everyone trying to help has concentrated on in coming air flow or supply.. which means the exact problem has not been identified.. The weight/ amount of draft needs to measured with a meter inserted in the chimney. To be sure of the draft.. Infrared thermometers are not happy with dbl wall . So its hard to tell the temp of the flue. I want to see it under fire before it hacks up a fire. Stay with it Ernie, everyone is trying to help.

 

[sean donato]

He's running single wall pipe from the stove to wall thimble. The ir temp gun will be close enough for flue temps in this case.
I have similar issues with the furnace in the house from time to time, but it's a duel draft set up, one top and one bottom. I think the design is a poor attempt at achieving secondary burn. However, it is handy and I usually get the best burn times running them both slightly open. When it starts farting out the top draft, I usually close it and open the lower draft a bit more. My stove has has done the same thing with the masonry and insualted stainless chimneys. so it not a chimney issue imo. I find it hard to believe it's a chimney issue in Ernies case either.
Though on the pipe damper. Usually on an air tight stove design they arnt required. Older non air tight stoves benefited from them, because regulating the incoming air was darn near impossible, so throttling the outgoing "air" was the best way to regulate burn. Ernie's stove is reminiscent of my dad's grizzly, which is an old design, but still an air tight stove, so it shouldn't be needed. And if I'm correct I think Ernie did have one installed previously with the same effect/ issues he's having now.

 

[ErnieG]

Your discription sounds like what could be called an "overfire". Thats when there is too much draft and the stove is being force fed, like a kiln. Which translates to " danger". So far everyone trying to help has concentrated on in coming air flow or supply.. which means the exact problem has not been identified.. The weight/ amount of draft needs to measured with a meter inserted in the chimney. To be sure of the draft.. Infrared thermometers are not happy with dbl wall . So its hard to tell the temp of the flue. I want to see it under fire before it hacks up a fire. Stay with it Ernie, everyone is trying to help.

Just a quick search for a draft gauge and there are quite a few ...can you recommend one ?

Thanks
Ernie

 

[ErnieG]

On the woodstoves I have, I always put a damper in the flue pipe just above the stove. When it gets huffing like that, its burning faster than the air supply coming in can accommodate. You need a damper in the flue to balance what's coming in with what can escape. In other words, make the "out" hole smaller in relation to the "in" hole. Sort of like balancing saw muffler mods with the right intake/carburetor changes or tuning. That will settle things down on a stove that's burning that hot. It will also help hold the heat in the stove and make the fire last longer, but if you choke it down too much, especially if your wood is wet like you say, then you will create a creosote problem in your flue. The insulated pipe will help that some, but as you say it just takes some time and experience to sort things out and see what works best for your setup. The stoves in my house and workshop are very similar old-school design, venting into identical masonry flues of almost equal height, but they both have to be managed differently as far as loading and air flow.

If you stove has a built-in flue damper that I missed, or if you already know all this, then I apologize. This is offered in the spirit of help and not criticism.

The stove doesn't have a built in flue damper ...it just has a baffle in the fire box just under the exhaust exit .
It's just a flat plate connected to the rear and sides of the stove .
Id assume that would act as a type of damper but I'm not sure .
When I installed the stove 2 years ago I had a damper in it and it didn't make any difference..i still had the same issues.

Thanks
Ernie

 

[woodchuckcanuck]

The stove doesn't have a built in flue damper ...it just has a baffle in the fire box just under the exhaust exit .
It's just a flat plate connected to the rear and sides of the stove .
Id assume that would act as a type of damper but I'm not sure .
When I installed the stove 2 years ago I had a damper in it and it didn't make any difference..i still had the same issues.

Thanks
Ernie

We have a Harmon Oakwood in the house. 10 years we've been dealing with backdraft. Have tried everything under the sun. It's gotten better but still occurs. Days when it's about 0ºC/32ºF and no wind are the days with most trouble. We have to burn hot at the start 6-700ºC for about 15 minutes to heat up the pipe. We're looking to replace the stove this year with something else. Hope you can figure it out.

 

[Woodtroll]

The stove doesn't have a built in flue damper ...it just has a baffle in the fire box just under the exhaust exit .
It's just a flat plate connected to the rear and sides of the stove .
Id assume that would act as a type of damper but I'm not sure .
When I installed the stove 2 years ago I had a damper in it and it didn't make any difference..i still had the same issues.

Thanks
Ernie

I'm sorry, for some reason I thought this was a fairly new install. I didn't realize you'd been working on this issue for a while. I hope you find a good solution soon!

 

[ErnieG]

So after a visit to my local stove shop today the older gentleman that owns the place said he'd add another length of pipe on the top ..he thinks the roofs affecting the draft especially when the winds are coming over the peak which usually they are being a westerly prevailing wind .
I think for now I'm gonna bear with it and when the weather gets a little nicer I'll add a piece and a roof support bracket and go from there .
He also said when the fire really gets going the smoke cant escape fast enough and that causes the back drafts ...very similar to what others have said here .
I also looked at a new Quadra-Fire 2100M ...they are offering a 30%tax refund on that model which is sized perfectly for my needs ...maybe Santa will bring me one ...lol

Thanks
Ernie

 

[VirginiaIron]

I'm having some issues with my chimney in my garage drafting correctly.
I can't seem to get a good draft with it ...I lite it and get it hot and it seems good for a day or so then after that I get a lot of moisture running down the inside of the pipe and it ends up coming out the seems above the stove then I get a terrible smell.
My woods been drying around 2 years now so im confident it's plenty dry .
Its worse on colder and windy days ...I get puffs of smoke back out the draft knobs on the door .
I don't know if the vertical pipe going out the wall is to long at 2' and it's slowing down the draft to much and causing the moisture problem .
Id appreciate any help someone may have .

Thanks
Ernie

So sorry you are experiencing problems with your heating system. We need more information.
1. What are the names of the manufacturer of your stove and chimney?
2. Was the metal chimney installed EXACTLY as the installation manual required?
3. Does the chimney height meet the minimum height the stove manufacturer recommends? Have you measured your draft?
4. Is the chimney the correct diameter the manufacturer recommends?

 

[sean donato]

The stove doesn't have a built in flue damper ...it just has a baffle in the fire box just under the exhaust exit .
It's just a flat plate connected to the rear and sides of the stove .
Id assume that would act as a type of damper but I'm not sure .
When I installed the stove 2 years ago I had a damper in it and it didn't make any difference..i still had the same issues.

Thanks
Ernie

The baffles can have a few functions, but primarily it's there to help slow down gasses to keep heat in the fire box. That stove out in my shop, didn't have one installed when I got it.(burned out and not replaced by previous owner is my guess.) It burned great, but lost a lot of heat out the pipe and burned wood like crazy. I just made a replacment baffle and put it in. Big difference. They don't typically restrict flue gases leaving the stove though, just give more area for it to travel before leaving the stove.

 

[ErnieG]

So sorry you are experiencing problems with your heating system. We need more information.
1. What are the names of the manufacturer of your stove and chimney?
2. Was the metal chimney installed EXACTLY as the installation manual required?
3. Does the chimney height meet the minimum height the stove manufacturer recommends? Have you measured your draft?
4. Is the chimney the correct diameter the manufacturer recommends?

I'll try and answer your questions the best I can ....
The stove is a Kodiak..id guess it dates back to the 80-90's so it's older pre EPA emissions restrictions .
Chimney is Selkirk brand
I didn't get a manual or instructions with it but I'm sure I could find something via the Internet but I didn't ..I did a lot of research prior to installing it .
I don't know the height requirement for the stove and no I haven't measured the draft but I can actually feel the draft with my hand in the pipe .
The stove outlet is 6" so I assumed that would be the manufacturers recommend diameter chimney size .

Thanks
Ernie