Drop starting?

[deye223]

So I guess it must take a certain amount of Intelligence to drop start saw with no problems

 

[Wood Doctor]

Stihl offers a very nice Elasto-Start for several of their professional saws. It was designed to be destroyed by drop starting. I've repaired or replaced about a dozen of them. One guy whose gone thorugh three on his MS 660 says that he never uses the decomp valve.

 

[Canyon Angler]

Back to the thread title. I drop started my Husqvarna 257 today by using its decomp. No problem. Then I picked up a vintage 51 with no decomp that likely has a new 55 top end and tried to drop start it. Did it, but dang near tore my arm off my shoulder. I guess guys really like to show they can do it. Years ago we called it chauvinism. What dio they call it today?

I find it easier to drop-start my 660 (it has no decomp) than to do it with my foot. There's a trick -- first you full-choke it, and just pull it over easy once or twice to pull some gas into the cylinder. Then pull the rope gently until you're getting compression with the piston approaching TDC. Then rewind the starter, engage the pawls and keep some tension on the rope, then simultaneously throw the saw downward with left arm and pull on cord with right arm. That way, two arms are doing the work that only one arm would be doing the other way (and with the added help of gravity).
Not "chauvinism," just common sense. If you think starting a 50 cc chainsaw is a bear, try a 30 or 40hp outboard 2T motor.

OORAH!

 

[Philbert]

So I guess it must take a certain amount of Intelligence to drop start saw with no problems

And luck.

Philbert

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

Oh yes very dangerous this chainsaw has 220 PSI it is a piece of peace to start


View attachment 903741

I love the outerwear stuff.

 

[Maintenance supervisor]

I teach chainsaw safety class for my institution and I don't teach drop starting.
The classes mostly have inexperienced young people in them so bending down to start a 50-60cc saw really isn't an issue. The "leg lock" method is also taught.(fyi dont put any part of a chainsaw in your baby maker area).
Now that being said I do drop start some of my saws , based on terrain and as noted your dam boot ain't gonna fit in that handle.
I'm 5'8" so I'm super aware of drop starting anything longer then a 28" bar , I absolutely HATE it the chain even touches dirt and having a saw bar combination taller than me is a good opportunity for that to happen.
I love my old mag saws and some just never came with brakes so I accept the dangers of operating them as what it is , the one thing I am not going to do is trade my freedom for the perceived fear that something bad might happen and dont kid myself that only the "lucky" get to be old.

 

[deye223]

And luck.

Philbert

I respectfully disagree luck has nothing to do with .

 

[Woodslasher]

So I guess it must take a certain amount of Intelligence to drop start saw with no problems

I respectfully disagree luck has nothing to do with .

In that order, no and yes. I am unlucky and have not been hurt or heard of anyone getting hurt while drop starting a saw. Actually, I know two guys who’ve gotten hurt drop starting a saw, but that was when the busted recoil pulley would lock up the starter and try to dislocate their shoulder. As for the intelligence part, no, just common sense is needed.

 

[windthrown]

This topic comes up all the time here. For whatever reason. I have rarely started a saw any other way than drop starting. I also rarely start a saw with the chain brake on. As in; I learned with saws that did not have chain brakes, and no one I ever knew started saws any other way. I always assume that the chain brake is not on, regardless of the saw. Some of my saws do not have them. It is also safer, from an engioneering design standpoint to drop start them. Yeah yeah, scream and rant about safety and OSHA and all the BS about it out there. I have NEVER worked with any falling crew, tree butcher crew, land clearing, construction or farming crew that did anything other than drop start saws. That is what, over 40 years now? Even the engineers I met from Stihl drop started the demo saws. I asked them about it, and they said that they were designed to be started that way. But they had to comply with various regulations and say to foot or leg start them. They did not do that in any demos that I was at. Nor have any Stihl or Husky or Dolmar dealers that I have met or been to. End of story. Believe what you will though. I believe that bending over and starting a saw completely off balance, or locking a saw in your legs somehow to start them is a HAZARD. It is also far more of a strain to do that. OSHA be damned. I do not give a rat's ass. I have all my limbs and fingers and I have owned and run well over 100 different saws in my life in hundreds of different situations. Huskies, Macs, Stihl, Oly, Jred, Homelites and Echos. And a few others that I have forgotten.

I also do not see how an Easy Start handle will fail any faster drop starting a saw. I have a drawer full of Easy Start handles that I got at a GTG one year and other than replacing solid handles with them, I have never had to replace one. I start all saws left handed... just works way better. Always has. Of course I also have yellow bars and I only use non safety chain. Must me a lethal combination all this according to OSHA, but I am still alive. Amazing! Not... just common sense. And I am an engineer. So please spare me some BS physics about how unsafe drop starting is.

 

[Czed]

How did the safety watchdogs decide that this technique was so dangerous it should be banned? Are there actual statistics that support this view or is it mainly a perceived danger by safety committees that don't really use chainsaws? I'm talking about drop starting where you hold the saw on the front handle with the left hand and pull the cord with the right hand, I'll concede that there could be some risk with a newbie trying this without a chain brake but if a brake is on, what kind of serious injury could happen? Some guys with much better arms than me like to hold the saw with their right hand on the rear handle and pull straight back on the cord with their left hand, I would like to do this especially with long bars where you have to rest the tip on something and it also gives direct control of the trigger. Again, don't see anything too dangerous here when done by an experienced operator.
The safety police would like everyone to start the saw on the ground with one foot through the rear handle, good for people who have bought their first saw but the reality of working in the bush where there is no uncluttered ground make this a useless approach. An often recommended technique is the leg or "crotch" starting where you hold the saw with your left hand on the front handle and the rear handle tucked under your right leg and this seems like a good compromise which I will often do but if the saw is a real bear to pull over, the leg bruises put me back to drop starting. How many are forced to use some technique by the agency you work for, but go back to regular drop starting when you are on your own?

I'd like to see your safety police start without
Drop starting a 220# 266xp
I'm liking the new generation Husqvarna pull rope handles
On the 372s and whatever
I retrofitted all my 30+ saws with high compression and no decomp with them
More comfortable to me than that stihl easy start whatever handles they use.

 

[deye223]

In that order, no and yes. I am unlucky and have not been hurt or heard of anyone getting hurt while drop starting a saw. Actually, I know two guys who’ve gotten hurt drop starting a saw, but that was when the busted recoil pulley would lock up the starter and try to dislocate their shoulder. As for the intelligence part, no, just common sense is needed.

No such thing as common sense these days it's very uncommon hence I call it intelligence

 

[Old2stroke]

I also do not see how an Easy Start handle will fail any faster drop starting a saw. I have a drawer full of Easy Start handles that I got at a GTG one year and other than replacing solid handles with them, I have never had to replace one.

Are we confusing Easy Start handles with the "quick start", "E-Z pull start" systems where there is a secondary spring in the rope drum that winds up and "aids" the rope pull to kick through compression? This is the system that is prone to damage when drop starting.

 

[lone wolf]

This topic comes up all the time here. For whatever reason. I have rarely started a saw any other way than drop starting. I also rarely start a saw with the chain brake on. As in; I learned with saws that did not have chain brakes, and no one I ever knew started saws any other way. I always assume that the chain brake is not on, regardless of the saw. Some of my saws do not have them. It is also safer, from an engioneering design standpoint to drop start them. Yeah yeah, scream and rant about safety and OSHA and all the BS about it out there. I have NEVER worked with any falling crew, tree butcher crew, land clearing, construction or farming crew that did anything other than drop start saws. That is what, over 40 years now? Even the engineers I met from Stihl drop started the demo saws. I asked them about it, and they said that they were designed to be started that way. But they had to comply with various regulations and say to foot or leg start them. They did not do that in any demos that I was at. Nor have any Stihl or Husky or Dolmar dealers that I have met or been to. End of story. Believe what you will though. I believe that bending over and starting a saw completely off balance, or locking a saw in your legs somehow to start them is a HAZARD. It is also far more of a strain to do that. OSHA be damned. I do not give a rat's ass. I have all my limbs and fingers and I have owned and run well over 100 different saws in my life in hundreds of different situations. Huskies, Macs, Stihl, Oly, Jred, Homelites and Echos. And a few others that I have forgotten.

I also do not see how an Easy Start handle will fail any faster drop starting a saw. I have a drawer full of Easy Start handles that I got at a GTG one year and other than replacing solid handles with them, I have never had to replace one. I start all saws left handed... just works way better. Always has. Of course I also have yellow bars and I only use non safety chain. Must me a lethal combination all this according to OSHA, but I am still alive. Amazing! Not... just common sense. And I am an engineer. So please spare me some BS physics about how unsafe drop starting is.

Same here 40 or more years of drop starting.

 

[Philbert]

This topic comes up all the time here. For whatever reason. I have rarely started a saw any other way than drop starting. I also rarely start a saw with the chain brake on. As in; I learned with saws that did not have chain brakes, and no one I ever knew started saws any other way. I always assume that the chain brake is not on, regardless of the saw. Some of my saws do not have them. It is also safer, from an engioneering design standpoint to drop start them. Yeah yeah, scream and rant about safety and OSHA and all the BS about it out there. I have NEVER worked with any falling crew, tree butcher crew, land clearing, construction or farming crew that did anything other than drop start saws. That is what, over 40 years now? Even the engineers I met from Stihl drop started the demo saws. I asked them about it, and they said that they were designed to be started that way. But they had to comply with various regulations and say to foot or leg start them. They did not do that in any demos that I was at. Nor have any Stihl or Husky or Dolmar dealers that I have met or been to. End of story. Believe what you will though. I believe that bending over and starting a saw completely off balance, or locking a saw in your legs somehow to start them is a HAZARD. It is also far more of a strain to do that. OSHA be damned. I do not give a rat's ass. I have all my limbs and fingers and I have owned and run well over 100 different saws in my life in hundreds of different situations. Huskies, Macs, Stihl, Oly, Jred, Homelites and Echos. And a few others that I have forgotten.

I also do not see how an Easy Start handle will fail any faster drop starting a saw. I have a drawer full of Easy Start handles that I got at a GTG one year and other than replacing solid handles with them, I have never had to replace one. I start all saws left handed... just works way better. Always has. Of course I also have yellow bars and I only use non safety chain. Must me a lethal combination all this according to OSHA, but I am still alive. Amazing! Not... just common sense. And I am an engineer. So please spare me some BS physics about how unsafe drop starting is.

Well, you wrote the longest comment, so you must be right.
And of the 100,000+ members here, you must be the only engineer.
You probably know lots of people who drove cars without seat belts before 1965 and lived, and probably a few that still refuse to wear them today to prove what bad asses they are.
I have not died from ebola, and don't personally know anyone who has, but I still know that it is a HAZARD.
Safety is about risk, and statistics, and epidemiology (but if 'physics' is BS, you're not gonna like that word); that's what I tried to summarize as 'luck', in a post, above - the chance or likelihood that it will happen to you.
'Common sense', to me, includes paying attention to risk, and taking reasonable steps to reduce it.

Philbert

 

[OM617YOTA]

Be intentional about life.

If, after an honest look at the data and other options, your considered opinion is that the way you've always done it is still the best option, rock on. Make sure that's an intentional decision, though. Not just "welp, I've always done it this way, so that's how I'm always going to do it." A rut is not a decision. Make a decision.

Yes, I'm going to continue drop starting. And wearing my seatbelt, not eating paint chips, and eating bacon a couple times a month.

 

[deye223]

I look at it like this some people can freehand file a chain some people can't some people have a licence and can drive a car perfectly fine others have a licence yet shouldn't be anywhere near one so some people can drop start saw safely others should never attempt it just my opinion

 

[lone wolf]

I look at it like this some people can freehand file a chain some people can't some people have a licence and can drive a car perfectly fine others have a licence yet shouldn't be anywhere near one so some people can drop starter saw safely others should never attempt it just my opinion

That makes sense to me but the same people thant cant safely drop start a saw would be suspect to me as far as how skilled they are.

 

[deye223]

That makes sense to me but the same people thant cant safely drop start a saw would be suspect to me as far as how skilled they are.

I'm glad somebody has seen the point on trying to make I totally agree with your post

 

[lone wolf]

I'm glad somebody has seen the point on trying to make I totally agree with your post

I see it every time i see a new guy.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I look at it like this some people can freehand file a chain some people can't some people have a licence and can drive a car perfectly fine others have a licence yet shouldn't be anywhere near one so some people can drop start saw safely others should never attempt it just my opinion

Which is kind of what I was trying to say back in post #32.
You do not have to use the search feature too hard to figure out some of those against the idea of this unsafe practice of the drop start, have a slightly more vested interest in the field of denying common sense and enforcing safety via written text.