Drying vs Non-Drying Vegetable Oils

[Franny K]

Mineral oil here is a clear oil that comes in bottles like rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide from the pharmacy or drug store. I think it is a super laxative, you drink a bit or give some to your dog to combat the constipating effect of anesthesia or if/when you think the dog swallowed something that is making a blockage. It is a problem with KTM motorcycle hydraulic clutches that say use mineral oil on the cover. I think you are supposed to use jack oil or tractor transmission fluid (as opposed to brake fluid) but it is something that gets lost/confusing in translation.

 

[holeycow]

I buy food grade mineral oil by the 20 litre pail for the cattle oiler. Mixed with certain essential oils, it is a non-toxic product for pest control. The cattle love it (as they run to the oiler and play in the mop) and it keeps them bug-free.

I use the same oil in ktm clutch systems. Baby oil is mineral oil, I believe...it also works in ktm clutches.

 

[Justsaws]

So what I have learned is that a KTM clutch needs to be babied?
Cows need oiled. Squeaky cows, possibly the clutch pack.
Australia or Austria, probably both is so freaking oily windshields need scraping. Oxidized oil at that, otherwise just wash it off, with surfactants, or let the cows lick it clean. Total loss system, as long as you are in front of the cow.
There is a list of oils that dry why exposed to air. See above solution for disposing of dry oils. More cows.
Total loss systems defy the laws of physics, completely gone the oil is. Silly cows.
Enzymes eat oil, obviously competition for those cows, better field spray more oil.
Question asked? Not really. Question answered, probably not. More question? No, cause we gonna science this up good and more cows.

Huh, some threads need more cowbell. This one needs more cow.

Cow, cow, cow, cow, cow...

Threads are worthless without pictures...

 

[Yukon Stihl]

From the Los Angeles County website:

Propaganda pure and simple

 

[Rockjock]

I think 7Sleeper has given you some sage advise here. Rapeseed or Canola is widely used by his colleagues and by him as well. That is a first hand account of how it works and his first had observations. Also the misconception that the regular bar and chain oil is no longer available in Austria is false. While the weekend warrior might have a difficult time finding it, the professionals can get it easily AND they are the ones that use a great deal of it. . The real point that Austria is trying to make is a oil that is LESS harmful to the environment. Less being the operative word here. Bioplus is still harmful but has a lesser impact. Herr 7Sleepers inight is spot on.

 

[Philbert]

This is one of the best new / revived thread topics that we have had in a long time.

Aside from the the political crap that emerged, the basic question posted by the OP is: IF you choose to run non-petroleum based bar and chain oil, what is the best kind for occasional saw users, to avoid problems with gumming up?

A lot of interesting information, including the problems that some have faced using vegetable oils: mouse poop; oven cleaner to save chains; differences between greasable and non-greasable nose sprockets; etc.

(@2dogs beat me to suggesting hemp / cannabis oil - that could make everyone 'happy'!)

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

USDA Forest Service :VEGETABLE OIL FOR LUBRICATING CHAIN SAWS

Too bad that USFS did not look into any negatives in this report - anyone know if there have been any updates?

Also, linking to some related A.S. threads - some good comments and interesting ideas:
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...ere-really-a-need-for-bar-specific-oil.20909/
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...oil-for-bar-oil-watch-this-think-this.180882/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/biodegradable-bar-oil-anybody-use-it.17680/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/problems-with-canola-as-bar-oil.46139/

Philbert

 

[Justsaws]

One of the driving ideas behind using a plant based oil for bar lube is simply the idea of reducing petroleum use where it is possible. It is possible, for branded products it seems a touch on the expensive side especially when combined with the expected added maintenance. Unlike the typical blade being lubricated with plant based oils a chainsaw chain is more complex, that complexity seems to add problems that are not as significant on some circular and some band saws. The chain(drive) lubes also do not immediately crossover to a cutting chain, as the additives can be a problem and highly refined lubes are super expensive.

Mixing of the two types of basic oils is generally not recommended as the chemicals found in the oils make make solids(fats, starches) start to drop out of solution, congeal, etc. If it was done under controlled conditions they would call it refining. Usually at least on lubes other than bar lube there is information available out this and the recommended procedures for preventing and cleaning afterwards. To "refine" the oils to the point were this does not occur raises the cost and changes the characteristics of the oils. I have not looked a bottle of the branded bio bar lubes in a long time, maybe the info is there as well.

In terms of plant based oils killing vegetation, they can be really good at that. Compared to petroleum plant based oils are super wetters, they get in all the nooks and crannies. They stick where they are better, can be more resistant to being rained off. Add to that their ability to cook themselves(oxidize) and whatever they are on and even the "safest" oils can kill vegitation and keep it dead. A throughly varnished plant cannot breathe while being cooked. In addition there are some other chemical exchanges that can occur as well, this was waaaay past my understanding, however is still a currently researched area supposedly, killing stuff with plant based oils is not a new idea.

None of this is new ideas, maybe renewed interests. At the end of the day if I need to or even just want to, I know I can use plant oils.

I think they are safe to use and I think they could be better for the environment long term, I do not know those things. Could be very mistaken.

 

[CR888]

The Canadian forestry dept did a report on the use of Canola in forestry saws which is an interesting read. However it was only canola and not other oils.

 

[GerrySM]

More evidence that olive oil is not drying or semi-drying like canola?

 

[holeycow]

I am not sure how the environmental pollution created in the production of most of the oil producing plants could be deemed by any reasonable person as being automatically better environmentally than a petroleum product. Smoke and mirrors propoganda BS.

And some of yous who obviously think you are informed can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[CR888]

Only issue with olive oil for me is price. I can get canola & rice bran about half the price. I may try some olive oil spray on my hedge trimmers, the lanolin spray I use is great but around $12 bucks a can where olive oil cooking spray is $2.

 

[GerrySM]

On another forum, someone stated that he had been using olive oil in his Poulan since 1991. Another poster responded:

Olive oil has a low smoking temperature. You don't use it to fry chicken. I would think the same principle would apply with high temperature chainsaw use.

To which yet another poster declared that

The smoke point of olive oil is just under 400ºF (200ºC), so if your bar is that hot, you've got real problems. I guess I'll have to take my IR gun out tomorrow and check it.

and he followed up with

OK, did the test today on some 18" black cherry. After cutting 3 rounds with my 18" 026, then measuring with an IR gun, my bar/chain was 135 to 145ºF and hit a max of 155ºF right where the bar meets the saw. Soooo ... use all the olive oil you want, it won't smoke.

So this would seem to settle that oft-raised canard.

----------

Another interesting comment, this time about the GUMMING of canola oil. A poster on another forum commented that he was trying to find a way to remove the dried canola oil from his saw, and got this response:

I wonder if your saw had pure canola oil in it. I don't find crud in my saws, not even anything built up in the oil tank.... just clean like new inside that tank and I've been running canola for close to 9 yrs now. But having said that, I have had bars hanging on the wall that weren't used for about 3 yrs and the canola in the sprocket nose seized up. Not a problem, just a little WD 40 spray and then wiggle the sprocket with my fingers and the nose was free again.

This supports the science, which says that canola is SEMI-DRYING and therefore removable, unlike linseed oil (a drying oil), for instance, which would be extremely difficult to move once dried.

 

[Philbert]

Olive oil would make more sense in 'Olympik' chainsaws . . . (sounds Mediterranean),

But seriously, what would / do you use to thin out veggie bar and chain oil. I use clean kerosene to thin dino oil, especially with my electric and battery saws which do not generate heat to warm up the tank on cooler days. In salad dressing, I add vinegar, but since that is acetic acid, it's probably not a good idea.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[Justsaws]

The basic answer to thinning vegetable based oils is heat, get the oil warm enough to become free flowing again. They should not need to be thinned in order to function as long as they are above the temp at which they start to turn solid. Canola oil is roughly 20*F, for turning solid depending on the oil itself.

In terms of what to add that will yield s lot of different questions first. Adding cottonseed oil which can be stable well below zero can result in a glob of canola oil solids suspended in free flowing cottonseed oil. Adding petroleum solvents and oils can/will drop fats out of the plant oil plus defeat the purpose of using plant based oil.

Storing 35lb jugs of various oils in the barn yielded lots of different mushes over the years and some blocks of solid fat. Put the containers in a temp warm enough to melt the fats over time depending on how warm the room was. I am thrifty, barn is not heated.

Olive oil can turn solid in the refrigerator, whipped olive oil spreads for instance, it is generally referred as becoming solid around 30*F which is colder than a refrigerator yet olive oil will solidify in the fridge given enough time. When used as a light machine oil it "butters" on cold parts at a higher temp than other light oils, solution is to warm parts and oil, work oil in and then let parts cool, wipe off excess.

 

[GerrySM]

Why would you want to thin it out?

I hear that orange oil-type solvents work well with vegetable oils, if you are talking about cleaning....

 

[Philbert]

Why would you want to thin it out?

Cold weather.
Folks around here generally cut well below 0°F.
Even conventional bar and chain oil is too viscous to run in conventional saws.
As noted, my electric and battery saws do not heat up the bar and chain oil, like internal combustion saws do.

Philbert

 

[GerrySM]

Cold weather. Folks around here generally cut well below 0°F.

You are referring to viscosity. Viscosity varies with temperature; liquids getting more "runny" when hot. 0ºF is -18ºC. At that temperature, olive oil is solid. Olive oil will harden at refrigerator temperatures -- around 37ºF or 3ºC

I have no idea what to suggest other than to keep the oil and saw warm until use.

 

[Justsaws]

Cutting below zero, price point, availability probably means cottonseed oil.

 

[GerrySM]

Okay guys, reporting back 3 months later as promised.

The good news: OLIVE OIL WORKS! I put it on various chains and even on some hedge trimmers, and none of the equipment has frozen up with dried oil, as it used to do after a few months with Canola Oil.

So I highly recommend that you use Olive Oil on your chainsaws.