Drying vs Non-Drying Vegetable Oils

[Finnlogger]

Now what's the point in ecological awareness?! The expanding sun is going to cook us in 6 billion years anyway...

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[Justsaws]

In the little area where I live there are 6 places that sell many pallets of bar lube every year, so while my neighbor may only use a quart or two, it is a safe bet that thousands of gallons of it being field sprayed every year in the little area where I live.

So if I can field spray a bit of plant oil instead, and I can, why not? Well, currently using petroleum that cost half as much as TSC oil and does not require any extra maintenance, yeah that extra 10-15 minutes once a week was horrible.

The occasional user is the person that should still be using petroleum, commercially it should all be plant based. The maintenance needed to use plant based lubes can be absorbed in industrial/commercial settings. Sell petroleum in pints and quarts only, next to the cans of premix. Only availible gallons being plant based.

 

[GerrySM]

the results came back that the soil microbes quickly digested the oil,

That depends entirely on the type of soil and species of microbes in the soil. Some sandy soils, for instance, are low in microbe life. There's a reason the USDA recommends vegetable oil, and there's a reason the Austrian forestry people forbid use of mineral oils on bars.

It would be interesting to see the amount breathed in would be, but I'd dare say it wouldn't be any worse that driving down a busy multi lane highway that had heavy traffic on it

Er, no. Vehicle internal combustion engines do not spew oil mists / oil particles into the air. A couple of years ago I got a lungful of oil mist from my old Husky, and I coughed for weeks. That's what changed my mind about bar oils.

REAL LIFE scientific testing is discounted by folks with a political agenda they want to impose on all others

How ironic, considering how many people discount the science on climate change because of their right wing political agenda. (Ducks)

I don't think a liter run through a saw has even remotely the same effect

So you think that because you have finely distributed the oil in the environment, it will somehow evaporate? That rain will not move it through the soil profile? Funny.

By late summer, however, that patch was the greenest in the yard

If oil has moved below ground, it will form a barrier to rainwater loss via leaching, thus keeping the ground above it wetter after rain (and therefore the grass greener) than other areas. Simple physics.

 

[Boogedy_Man]

So you think that because you have finely distributed the oil in the environment, it will somehow evaporate? That rain will not move it through the soil profile? Funny.

Huh? How did you get that from my post?

If oil has moved below ground, it will form a barrier to rainwater loss via leaching, thus keeping the ground above it wetter after rain (and therefore the grass greener) than other areas. Simple physics.

While you're trying to insult everyone's intelligence, you do understand that antifreeze is not oil, right?

 

[holeycow]

I've been watching this hogwash for a few days. My fury has mounted and I can't hold back any longer.

If you think for a second that promoting the use of a vegetable oil produced in a commercial farming enterprise (meaning GMO chemical farming) is better for the environment than spraying a tiny, fine mist of mineral oil around then you have obviously jumped on the green bus of lies.

You started this thread with an agenda and some have joined your bandwagon and some have not.

I have seen it as ridiculous from the onset.

And obviously you think you're smart, yet you have no arguments whatsoever, IMO, because the premise of using an oil produced through all manner of large scale chemical spraying, genetic modifying, land ruining, and processing nullifies your knowledge of the subject. Again, IMO.

Anyway; you, Jane Fonda, Neil Young, and Leonardo Di Capprio are on my ignore list.

on The Green Bus Of Lies...

Use whatever oil you want boys, because the real polluters in this world make our little oil spray insignificant.

And climate change is more largely due to deforestation (deforestation mostly to grow GMO chemical "food") than any other cause. So shut the chainsaws down...

 

[GerrySM]

Huh? How did you get that from my post?

You said a litre of oil dumped on the ground will have an effect on groundwater, but if dumped on the ground via running through a chainsaw, not. You're wrong.

While you're trying to insult everyone's intelligence, you do understand that antifreeze is not oil, right?

Sorry, I was in a rush and parsed that as you dumping more oil on the ground. In fact, you dumped ethylene glycol, which has an affinity for water, so would keep the ground there moister. Simple physics

 

[GerrySM]

If you think for a second that promoting the use of a vegetable oil produced in a commercial farming enterprise (meaning GMO chemical farming) is better for the environment than spraying a tiny, fine mist of mineral oil around then you have obviously jumped on the green bus of lies.

Haha! Holy Cow! Would you be on board if the vegetable oil came from non-GMO certified-organic permaculture commune? And since most of us go through gallons of bar oil, I think your description of a "tiny, fine mist" is deliberately misleading

And climate change is more largely due to deforestation

Deforestation is one of the many factors, but not the major one. CO2 and other GHGs are the biggies. Let's not get off topic.

 

[Boogedy_Man]

You said a litre of oil dumped on the ground will have an effect on groundwater, but if dumped on the ground via running through a chainsaw, not.

Not at all what I said. I said it would not have remotely the same effect. A better choice of words would have been impact. Running a chainsaw versus dumping oil from the container are not one and the same.

Sorry, I was in a rush and parsed that as you dumping more oil on the ground. In fact, you dumped ethylene glycol, which has an affinity for water, so would keep the ground there moister. Simple physics

What actually happened is that the once toxic anti-freeze degraded into useful organics.

 

[GerrySM]

A better choice of words would have been impact.

I say, change the impact YOU are having on the environment by using vegetable oils.

Bar and chain lubrication is a system that results in the total loss of the oil. No oil is recovered from the chain and recycled. All of it enters the environment in one form or another, whether it is misted off the bar and into the air or sprayed across the general vicinity, including the operator. Many organisations, including some government departments, are demanding that an environmentally friendly alternative be used when working on their projects. Chain oil can have very negative effects on ornamental garden areas that contain water features and live fish (it can kill the fish if it coats a pond), so it is best to be cautious when using a saw to prune in these areas. Beyond the negative effects on the environment, bar and chain oil, any oil really, has the potential to have some significant health consequences for anyone in regular contact with it. Because the oil is misted off the chain, operators not only get it on their skin, but also inhale is on a regular basis. This can cause respiratory problems as well as skin irritations. Some studies have linked regular contact with petroleum products to increased cancer risks, although none specifically address bar and chain saw oil.

In response to all of these factors, many companies are starting to produce bio-oil varieties of bar and chain oil. These lubricants tend to be based on cold pressed vegetable oils with some additives to increase their ability to adhere to the chain. Several companies advertise their bio-oils as being highly biodegradable with over 90% of the oil degraded in three weeks. Most users are having great success using these products and the reviews suggest that they are just as effective and long lasting as petroleum based lubricants. However, they are more expensive than the regular versions of bar and chain oil.

Is Vegetable Oil a good idea?

For those users wanting to not only cut costs, but also protect the environment and their own health, using simple vegetable oil is a good alternative. Vegetable oil, especially canola oil, serves as the base for several industrial lubricants. When using vegetable oil in your saw be sure to keep an eye on your reservoir. In warmer weather vegetable oil is thinner than most of the off the shelf varieties (no additives or tackifiers) so it will flow more quickly. It is a good idea to run a few tanks and then adjust your flow screw if the saw weeps oils when not running. Some users who switched to vegetable oil noted that they were using more bar and chain oil than previously, but this problem should be largely mitigated by proper tuning of the saw. A few words of caution: vegetable oil has no added anti-freeze and you may start to run into problems with it thickening, or even hardening completely, at temperatures below minus 10-15 degrees Celsius. Don’t leave saws containing vegetable oil out in the cold. Also, vegetable oil can thicken over time, so if you do not plan on using your saw for several months you should drain the oil reservoir. Beyond these cautions, vegetable oil is a cheap, readily-available, environmentally friendly, biodegradable, more healthy & renewable alternative to petroleum based bar and chain oils.

From http://www.toolerant.com/whats-the-best-chainsaw-oil-summary-of-a-heated-debate/

All I am adding to this is that we should consider using a vegetable oil with a lower iodine value, so less chance of thickening. Thanks.

 

[farmer steve]

Thanks Thommo, that will be my next step if the tuning fails.



Just following the manual.

View attachment 570521



The damaged side was facing down, to the chassis. The seating area looks free of malformation problems, so ... just a bum filter.

geez Gerry, your worried about bar oil and yet you mix motor oil with you gas.

 

[Bwildered]

That depends entirely on the type of soil and species of microbes in the soil. Some sandy soils, for instance, are low in microbe life. There's a reason the USDA recommends vegetable oil, and there's a reason the Austrian forestry people forbid use of mineral oils on bars

Certainly, but the test plots we did were in in a gravelly rock that was replicating the original disaster, in what I wouldn't even call soil that didn't even support plant growth

As far as driving down a busy highway, there is always someone driving a car , truck or motorbike that is past its useby date & blowing unburnt oil out its exhaust, or dripping oil from its driveline somewhere & throwing a mist of oil into the air you breath, so it would be good to see a comparison done.
Thanski

 

[GerrySM]

there is always someone driving a car, truck or motorbike that is ... throwing a mist of oil into the air you breath

You win, the highway air is full of oil mist, you have to scrape it off the windscreen when you get home. So therefore no need to clean up your act with the chainsaw; proceed as before

 

[mga]

I originally thought this thread was started because the OP'ster was trying to sell a product, not start an environmental issue.

I can see this heading to the political discussion form soon.

 

[GerrySM]

I started the thread to see if someone had worked out that we can use non-drying vegetable oils rather than semi-drying oils like Canola. I found out nobody has looked into it. I answered myself. My saws are now full of olive oil. From my POV, this thread can be locked if moderators see fit; it is becoming a place for anti-enviro people to rant.

 

[Franny K]

It was informative about the iodine rating system. I had no idea iodine had other meanings besides the stuff to put on cuts or cow nipples in the milking. process. Maybe radioactive isotope as well.

When you re phrase deforestation to surface use modification the factor from over in the political section or similar I searched out is about 40% of man made effect.

From my point of view the original poster did get some folks that have used a lot of plant oil to post some interesting reading.

My new electric pole saw (sometimes) leaks bar oil and has made two stains on concrete floors. I bet plant oil will come out easier. I think I would lean towards a Husky or Stihl or similar branded product instead of grocery store.

 

[holeycow]

I am as far from anti-enviro as you could possibly get. Just for the record.

 

[GerrySM]

I think I would lean towards a Husky or Stihl or similar branded product

Better than nothing but

1. Expense
2. Mystery additives (a "complex mixture" to quote the Stihl MSDS)
3. People get gumming with the commercial bio-oils (I think they use a semi-drying oil, probably canola) so you're back to square one. That's why I posted the thread

 

[GerrySM]

I am as far from anti-enviro as you could possibly get. Just for the record.

I see, which is presumably why you wrote:

So shut the chainsaws down..

You're at the wrong forum, Ms Cow. Most of us have to use chainsaws.

 

[Yukon Stihl]

One liter of oil contaminates million liters of groundwater.

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How is that possible,they don't mix.Oil rides on top of water.
They never stay mixed,always separate.

 

[GerrySM]

How is that possible,they don't mix.Oil rides on top of water.

From the Los Angeles County website:

1. An average oil change uses five quarts; one change can contaminate a million gallons of fresh water. Much oil in runoff from land and municipal and industrial wastes ends up in the oceans.
   
   
2. Used oil does not readily dissolve in water and is slow to degrade in the environment. One pint of oil can produce an oil slick nearly one acre in size. Used oil from a single oil change (approximately 4 quarts of oil) can ruin 1 million gallons of water...a year's supply for 50 people. – City of Chicago Used Motor Oil Recycling
   
   
3. A quart of motor oil can contaminate up to 250,000 gallons of drinking water! – DPW Bureau of Sanitation
   
   
4. Used oil poured down your sewer line can damage your community's water treatment system – contaminating your drinking water and costing you money. In most areas improper disposal of used oil is a crime. – American Petroleum Institute
   
   
5. One pint of oil can produce a slick of approximately one acre on the surface of water. Films of oil on the surface of water prevent the replenishment of dissolved oxygen, impair photosynthetic processes, and block sunlight. – Integrated Waste Management Board