Dust coming off sharpened chain

[Dacha]

Hello,

cutting mainly very hard black locust, with stihl ms170.

Mainly 10inch diameter, 9 meter high trees.

I have about 5 chains, 12 inch bar, stihl PMM3 chain, .043 gauge.

When chain is new before first sharpening it creates nice chips when cutting.

Once chains get dull and i take them to stihl dealer for sharpening, they cutt better than when they were dull, but nowhere near new chain performance. Instead of chips, dust is coming out.

When i hand file, i get much better results. But i don't have conditions to hand file often.

Should i maybe move up to .050 " gauge ?
Will i have better luck with those slightly bigger teeth.

Or should i just keep buying new chains ?

Any comments or suggestions welcome.

 

[rogue60]

Hello,

cutting mainly very hard black locust, with stihl ms170.

Mainly 10inch diameter, 9 meter high trees.

I have about 5 chains, 12 inch bar, stihl PMM3 chain, .043 gauge.

When chain is new before first sharpening it creates nice chips when cutting.

Once chains get dull and i take them to stihl dealer for sharpening, they cutt better than when they were dull, but nowhere near new chain performance. Instead of chips, dust is coming out.

When i hand file, i get much better results. But i don't have conditions to hand file often.

Should i maybe move up to .050 " gauge ?
Will i have better luck with those slightly bigger teeth.

Or should i just keep buying new chains ?

Any comments or suggestions welcome.

We can talk about sharpening cutters and depth gauges for hrs.. But in this case I believe a two in one sharpener for .043 picco chain will yield excellent results and the fastest solution.

And yes .050 3/8 low pro is a good upgrade but it won't magically fix the problems we have here with sharpening and depth gauge settings.

 

[Philbert]

Show us photos of your sharpened cutters.

Clear close ups from both sides and the top.

Locust is hard. But no reason that a sharpened chain can’t cut as good (some will say better) than a new chain.

The same issues would likely follow you to the other chains as well. Maybe we can offer some advice after seeing your cutters.

Philbert

 

[cscltd]

Try The new Stihl 61ps3 chain. This way don’t have to change bar.
Cuts faster than pmm series
Also 2nd for pics of sharpened chain before using

 

[Dacha]

Thank you, rogue60.

I have stihl files, and depth gauges for rakers. They are in check.

When i fasten everything up with vices and use both hands to file, i get excellent results.

Now i dont have conditions to do it often.

It would be much more convinient for me to take 5 chains to dealer and have them do it for me. Where i am, sharpening service, doesnt cost much.

I plan to try rhat sharpening service one or two more times.

They have oem stihl grinders. I can't figure how that doesn't come out fairly sharp.

I have also mentioned it to them.

 

[rogue60]

Thank you, rogue60.

I have stihl files, and depth gauges for rakers. They are in check.

When i fasten everything up with vices and use both hands to file, i get excellent results.

Now i dont have conditions to do it often.

It would be much more convinient for me to take 5 chains to dealer and have them do it for me. Where i am, sharpening service, doesnt cost much.

I plan to try rhat sharpening service one or two more times.

They have oem stihl grinders. I can't figure how that doesn't come out fairly sharp.

I have also mentioned it to them.

More than likely the shop aren't setting the rakers or they are just terrible at sharpening chains.
Sadly we now live in a world were if you want a job done properly you have to do it yourself.

 

[Dacha]

More than likely the shop aren't setting the rakers or they are just terrible at sharpening chains.
Sadly we now live in a world were if you want a job done properly you have to do it yourself.

Thanks.

I experimented with rakers height before. Shorter ones cut faster in green or soft wood...They are presently on mark.

Problem has to be something about sharpnes of the edges on teeth...

Once i have my chain with me i will post pictures.

Easiest thing to do is to buy like 3 new chains and follow from there.

At the moment too many variables with those older chains.

I mean, once grinder sharpened at shop, they cut, but it takes twice as long as with new chain.

 

[Philbert]

They have oem stihl grinders. I can't figure how that doesn't come out fairly sharp.

Too much to respond to.

Many shops do a poor job of sharpening chains. Pathetic, but true.

For your situation, we would probably recommend a non-standard set of angles, for cutting the hard locust anyway.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

When i fasten everything up with vices and use both hands to file, i get excellent results.

Lots of other options besides vices too, for field and shop use.

Again, we need to see what your chains look like after you have filed them to offer reasonable advice.

Philbert

 

[Dacha]

Too much to respond to.

Many shops do a poor job of sharpening chains. Pathetic, but true.

For your situation, we would probably recommend a non-standard set of angles, for cutting the hard locust anyway.

Philbert

Thanks.

Will do some research on those angles.

 

[Philbert]

For example, this is one of my favorite ‘field vises’ for filing chains:


Philbert

 

[Dacha]

For example, this is one of my favorite ‘field vises’ for filing chains:
View attachment 1217948

Philbert

I like that idea.

Thats a type of sharpener i have as well.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

I saw a chain vise similar to the one pictured below elsewhere on this forum. When I went to the vendor, they no longer sold this item, so I made this using a couple of cheap Harbor Freight (store selling very cheap chinese tools) clamps and a piece of scrap steel channel. Welded the thing up and glued on the wood pads to provide clearance for the saw's chain (the clamps were such poor quality that the anvil was flush with the arm and not even perpendicular to the screws.

I screwed it to a log in the woods and clamped the saw's bar. I used the chain brake to lock the chain and a hand held file - no jig.
The vise can also be clamped to a log with a ratchet strap.

This year I decided to learn how to hand file a chain. I watched a couple of youtube videos, read my Stihl saw's manual, grabbed an old chain, put it on the saw and practiced. I had more than a few problems and little success. Then I read a couple of tips here, bought some new files on ebay, and discovered what I had been doing wrong. Hand filing is NOT all that difficult to learn. I use no filing jig, just eyeballing the inscribed angle on the tooth and holding the file in both hands. It just takes a bit of practice.

My experience with chain saw shops (and my dealer) is you get back a chain with a significant hunk of the tooth ground away. From what I've read, you are supposed to just kiss the tooth with the grinding wheel in a power sharpener. I think the shops aim to grind away half the tooth thinking they will sell you more chain that way. Cynical attitude on my part, but what else can I think?

 

[Philbert]

Even a basic, $10 stump vise works pretty well. Took me a while to figure out that they hold pretty good in a stump (end grain), but not as well in the side of a log (long grain).

Also tried some custom stuff like this:


Philbert

 

[Dacha]

Try The new Stihl 61ps3 chain. This way don’t have to change bar.
Cuts faster than pmm series
Also 2nd for pics of sharpened chain before using

Is it full chisel ?

How is it on very hard wood ?

 

[cscltd]

Yes full chisel. Little bigger cutter than the pmm version which is nice
Already had some guys really like it.

 

[boisafeudunord]

We can talk about sharpening cutters and depth gauges for hrs.. But in this case I believe a two in one sharpener for .043 picco chain will yield excellent results and the fastest solution.

And yes .050 3/8 low pro is a good upgrade but it won't magically fix the problems we have here with sharpening and depth gauge settings.


View attachment 1217934

I have been using these for years now, really an awesome sharpener. Nothing like sharpening and setting depth in the same stroke. I love mine.

 

[Dacha]

Yes full chisel. Little bigger cutter than the pmm version which is nice
Already had some guys really like it.

Thanks.

Over here Stihl dealer has 63 ps3 chain. Do you know if its the same thing ?

Could be the gauge thing.

 

[cscltd]

61 series chain is .043 gauge and 63 series is .050 gauge. But both lo-pro 3/8 pitch

 

[buzz sawyer]

Just watching - to see the chain pics.