E3 Spark Plug Issue!!!

[shadow745]

I recently bought an E3 spark plug for my Husky 455 Rancher. Even though the existing NGK plug number matches up with the E3 number, the E3 is slightly longer. Not from the threads down where it counts, but a longer overall profile. When installed this causes the air filter cover to rub against the plug boot. I haven't noticed the cover becoming more than warm during use with the stock plug, but I don't want it to warp or even burn through because of the plug boot touching it with the E3 installed. I really want to use this plug in my saw based on what I've seen from my other equipment that I installed these plugs into. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for any info. Later!

 

[DGG]

I have never used one but that doesn't sound right. I'd email Husky and ask for their recommendations, thoughts. I use the Champ RCJ7Y on my 55 Rancher and it fits fine. It probably isn't the greatest plug ever invented but I can get them easily and they work okay for my purposes around the property.

 

[ShoerFast]

Shadow745

Welcome to the site!

Respectfully, I am from a different school then you.

If you have noticed a gain in performance replacing a spark-plug with an E3 plug, the replaced plug needed replacement!

My .02 cents worth here, there is only so much power in a coil, and once it bridges the spark-gap, that's it, fire is fire. But for a penny, here is a test, will take a couple minutes. Take an AM radio, set it off station and crank the volume and listen to the engine on it while under load,,,,, swap plugs and repeat,,,, take one of the plugs and widen the gap and try it again,,,,, you will have a louder AM with more gap and the same plug,,,,, what your hearing is the coil collapse/RFI (radio frequency interference) ,,,but what you will notice is there is not a lot of difference between plug brands, they all get the spark into the fuel about the same. E3 is just a gimmick plug IMO.

 

[cuttinscott]

Shadow745

Welcome to the site!

Respectfully, I am from a different school then you.

If you have noticed a gain in performance replacing a spark-plug with an E3 plug, the replaced plug needed replacement!

My .02 cents worth here, there is only so much power in a coil, and once it bridges the spark-gap, that's it, fire is fire. But for a penny, here is a test, will take a couple minutes. Take an AM radio, set it off station and crank the volume and listen to the engine on it while under load,,,,, swap plugs and repeat,,,, take one of the plugs and widen the gap and try it again,,,,, you will have a louder AM with more gap and the same plug,,,,, what your hearing is the coil collapse/RFI (radio frequency interference) ,,,but what you will notice is there is not a lot of difference between plug brands, they all get the spark into the fuel about the same. E3 is just a gimmick plug IMO.

+1 I believe as well E3 is a gimmick.

Scott

 

[Poley4]

I guess what bothers me about them is the ones I looked at Home Depot said made in China on the package.

 

[Mike mandry]

I also agree. A waste of money IMO

How do you know that a Chineese made plug has the same heat range as the OEM plug.

Is it really worth cooking your saw over a $3 spark plug ??

Personally I would stick with the manufacturers recommended plug.

I would be willing to bet that the engineers who designed the saw knew what they were doing when they chose the OEM plug they were going to use.

Spend that $5 on some good synthetic oil & a good file to keep the chain sharp.

That will do more for the life & performance of your saw than a gimmick spark plug.

Just my 3 cents......

 

[GPH85]

All fire is not the same... As long as you can control the fuel burn / flame propagation, you not only can get better effiency from the burn, you can also get more power, torque, fuel economy and on and on...

Why do you think so much research goes into developing cylinder head profiles? Well I can just about guarantee it's not just to be blowing millions of dollars for nothing...

I did have a link to a website that showed that the E3's would produce 5 to 10 more hp even over degreed regular "tradition" style expensive ($10 - $20 a piece) type of plug. I posted that site in one of the other plug postings on this site if anyone wants to bother...

Before I get too carried away here, by controlling the flame (igniting it from the center of the combustion chamber and allowing it to spread evenly outwards) you can squeeze every bit out of an engines current effiency out. Just look at how performance heads are made. 9 times out of 10 they control the flame from the center out.

Oh well no use in going on, everyone has already made their minds up after all.

 

[ShoerFast]

confused: All fire is not the same... As long as you can control the fuel burn / flame propagation, you not only can get better effiency from the burn, you can also get more power, torque, fuel economy and on and on...

Why do you think so much research goes into developing cylinder head profiles? Well I can just about guarantee it's not just to be blowing millions of dollars for nothing...

I did have a link to a website that showed that the E3's would produce 5 to 10 more hp even over degreed regular "tradition" style expensive ($10 - $20 a piece) type of plug. I posted that site in one of the other plug postings on this site if anyone wants to bother...

Before I get too carried away here, by controlling the flame (igniting it from the center of the combustion chamber and allowing it to spread evenly outwards) you can squeeze every bit out of an engines current effiency out. Just look at how performance heads are made. 9 times out of 10 they control the flame from the center out.

Oh well no use in going on, everyone has already made their minds up after all.

I guess I am not fallowing your post?

Are you saying that there is a substantial gain to be made from the E3 plug?

There is a chance that I have a lot to learn here, that may be why most of us are here. But it was my understanding that getting the spark to the mix plenty of time before it is absolutely needed would take care of a lot of problems. One of the main reasons is that the spark ignites the mix in advance, but not much happens in tell the mix is compressed more, then the flame spreads and pressures rise? Along that line, the amount of fuel burning before it really takes off, controls the firing pressure, higher octanes help this from going nutz, not the plug. And to further the example, it is the cylinder shape or combustion-chamber that contrails the first portion of ignition and the rest of the head after the piston is already heading down the cylinder, again, not that dependant on how the plug fired the fuel?

 

[DGG]

GBH85, do you have some independent test results that prove this assumption? I'd be interested in seeing them.

I'm sure if the chain saw manufacturer could crank out an additional 10-20% horsepower by just changing a spark plug they would do this for marketing reasons. Know what I mean?

I'm curious to know if the claim of greater efficiency is marketing hype or based on some serious testing by independent qualified engineers.

 

[GPH85]

Here's a private testing done by a dodge 3.9l engine builder. If there is anything out there to be disproved or tried out in an engine he will not only do it, but he will also show credible truthful results...

http://www.dodgedakotas.com/boards/v6/14623.html

I never said it would show a 10 - 20 % gain.

Also think about it this way (If I had a demo it would better represent this, but I don't). It also helps if you understand how air moves from blockage to blockage. In most, not all, engines the spark plug goes into the cylinder on a angle. In degreeing spark plugs you turn the opening of the gap upwards "toward" the intake, pointing in between each valve. By doing this the fuel burn will travel outward from the open gap and focus the propagation in the majority area of the cylinder -- focusing the burn... One very important thing here... The spark on a tradition plug once jumped across the gap of the plug ignites and starts the fuel burn outward through the opening of the plug --- not traveling or igniting equally like most think. This is because the actual ground electrode blocks or shields all of the area behind the opening of the plug "this is where airflow and flame burn understanding comes into effect" and because of this the flame burn has to "bounce" around the combustion chamber to burn all of the air/fuel mix...

Now "hopefully" understanding this, you should be able to realize why a plug installed with the opening of the plug pointing straight in a small corner of the combustion chamber wouldn't be all that efficient... This has not only been proven on the dyno, but it has been proven on the road with fuel efficiency. Some "in the right engine where there is a gain to be made" have gained 1 - 2mpg...

When I use E3's in my saws the main thing I noticed was that they pulled a little better, even over the degreed plugs I was running in them previously...

Sorry it took so long for me to get back on this, but I wasn't around the computer yesterday.

 

[cuttinscott]

Here's a private testing done by a dodge 3.9l engine builder. If there is anything out there to be disproved or tried out in an engine he will not only do it, but he will also show credible truthful results...

http://www.dodgedakotas.com/boards/v6/14623.html

I never said it would show a 10 - 20 % gain.

Also think about it this way (If I had a demo it would better represent this, but I don't). It also helps if you understand how air moves from blockage to blockage. In most, not all, engines the spark plug goes into the cylinder on a angle. In degreeing spark plugs you turn the opening of the gap upwards "toward" the intake, pointing in between each valve. By doing this the fuel burn will travel outward from the open gap and focus the propagation in the majority area of the cylinder -- focusing the burn... One very important thing here... The spark on a tradition plug once jumped across the gap of the plug ignites and starts the fuel burn outward through the opening of the plug --- not traveling or igniting equally like most think. This is because the actual ground electrode blocks or shields all of the area behind the opening of the plug "this is where airflow and flame burn understanding comes into effect" and because of this the flame burn has to "bounce" around the combustion chamber to burn all of the air/fuel mix...

Now "hopefully" understanding this, you should be able to realize why a plug installed with the opening of the plug pointing straight in a small corner of the combustion chamber wouldn't be all that efficient... This has not only been proven on the dyno, but it has been proven on the road with fuel efficiency. Some "in the right engine where there is a gain to be made" have gained 1 - 2mpg...

When I use E3's in my saws the main thing I noticed was that they pulled a little better, even over the degreed plugs I was running in them previously...

Sorry it took so long for me to get back on this, but I wasn't around the computer yesterday.

From that link you will get better performance gains from using the ROYAL PURPLE on the right side of the link.. LOL
Best damn oil money can buy..

Scott

 

[Wood Cutter]

All I'm going to say is that I agree with GPH85.

 

[ShoerFast]

Testing coil-over or computer controlled engines at wide open throttle for what spark plug works best is very close to worthless.

All the final product or engine output will tell you is what heat range a spark-plug is. It has nothing to do with how well it is lighting the mixture. (by spark)

Feed-back engines have been using Knock sensors since the early 80's, coil-over engines are the finest user of knock sensors, as each coil can have a separate timing advance.

Changing heat ranges can effect what the knock sensor hears but saying that it's do to a better burn is truty not someone I would be asking for engine advice. Different heat range plugs can dramatically change what the knock sensors hear,,,,,, for an example, picture a very cold plug in an emissions style or slower burn head,,,, the computer can give the plug more timing advance,,,,, or take a very hot plug in something more drastic, like a vortec head, the computer / knock sensor will sense backing the timing way back.

Now WOT is nothing like what the computer needs to correct for on a daily drive. Just like a chainsaw needs the plug to start good cold, and handle WOT

 

[GPH85]

The 3.9l's aren't coil on plug engines. In fact they still use a distributor to deliver spark and syncronize the fuel injectors. Oh and they don't use knock sensors either. In fact coil on plug engines weren't really that popular until 2000 and newer models because they weren't demanded by the EPA until around that time so that each individual cylinder on an auto engine could individually be controlled. It won't be that long until each cylinder has it's own O2 sensor...

Like I pointed out, you have to know or have understanding as to how the burning fuel travels through the combustion chamber to see why this helps. The E3's "spray" the fuel burn outward into the center of the combustion chamber via the restrictions or shroudings of the horse shoe shaped ground electrode (Imagine how a fuel injector sprays outward - The E3's using the right shrouding do this). If Bosch had this on their quad 4's and so on it would do the same thing. A tradition plug sends the fuel burn outward from the opened side of the gap of the plug. This is what makes the E3's so effecient. They focus the burn where it matters --- in the center of the combustion chamber.

By dyno proven I am referring to both carbureted and fuel injected engines done by engine builders throughout... The website I pointed out was comparing the same heat range "even though it's colder than what the engine calls for" of make of plug to make of plug. The E3's obviously beat the competition.

Like I said before. If I had a demo or video of some sort showing you what I'm talking about you would understand it then, but I don't have any videos like that here that shows how fuel burns in the combustion chamber...

 

[Butch(OH)]

Weeeelll, if we are to rely on Internet testimonials for our info lets see what the Internet tells us. When I punch in E3 spark plug test or E3 whatever on search I get lots more negative or no difference tests than positive, that is assuming one doesn't take into account data from E3 site or data quoted from them. I don't think I am closed minded but may I am? If I had to bet I would bet that we will see the day when E3s take there rightful place mung the bucket full of other magic spark plugs that have come and gone.

 

[ShoerFast]

The 3.9l's aren't coil on plug engines. In fact they still use a distributor to deliver spark and syncronize the fuel injectors. Oh and they don't use knock sensors either. In fact coil on plug engines weren't really that popular until 2000 and newer models because they weren't demanded by the EPA until around that time so that each individual cylinder on an auto engine could individually be controlled. It won't be that long until each cylinder has it's own O2 sensor...

..

I said: "Testing coil-over or computer controlled engines at wide open throttle for what spark plug works best is very close to worthless." The adaptive memory can up-date it's self so fast that before an engine is fully up to speed, it can recalibrate fuel and spark schueduling making claims that the power gain from a spark plug worthless, just picture a partial misfire , and the computer broadening the pulse width of the injector, resulting in more HP,,,,, again, an incomplete test.

It was your motor wizard that said he got better gains from the E3 plugs in coil over engines, Here is one of his quotes from your link:
"We have been testing the e3 and halo the most
amazing resaults we are seeing are in the foren
motors and the coil over setups 1 to 3 mpg gains
and 5 to 10 hp "

Like I pointed out, you have to know or have understanding as to how the burning fuel travels through the combustion chamber to see why this helps. The E3's "spray" the fuel burn outward into the center of the combustion chamber via the restrictions or shroudings of the horse shoe shaped ground electrode (Imagine how a fuel injector sprays outward - The E3's using the right shrouding do this). If Bosch had this on their quad 4's and so on it would do the same thing. A tradition plug sends the fuel burn outward from the opened side of the gap of the plug. This is what makes the E3's so effecient. They focus the burn where it matters --- in the center of the combustion chamber.

...

If you would like to explain why you don't think I understand how a cylinder fires?

Just because I think that E3 plugs are a complete rip-off and a waste of intellectual gains, dose not condone an incomplete understanding of the finer points of an internal combustion engine.

In fact, I do believe the engines in your description would be predestian to extreme combustion pressures, incomplete combustion and / or possible detonation? If "spraying" the flame front worked, it would surly detonate.

My understanding is that fuel burns more like particles of dust in a granary fire, from one particle to the next, a granary fire will push the walls of a granary out very far, but not as far as if the granary exploded.

By dyno proven I am referring to both carbureted and fuel injected engines done by engine builders throughout... The website I pointed out was comparing the same heat range "even though it's colder than what the engine calls for" of make of plug to make of plug. The E3's obviously beat the competition.

Like I said before. If I had a demo or video of some sort showing you what I'm talking about you would understand it then, but I don't have any videos like that here that shows how fuel burns in the combustion chamber...

Having ran a lot of engines on dynos, I know that I could prove a gain with E3 plugs, if I cheated the test, sort of like people that tested the "Tornado" thinggy that goes in the air-filter to spin the air around to get better mileage, bunk! The first test was at 55MPH,,,,, after the "Tornado" the test was at 65MPH,,,,whalla, more HP! (cheating bastards)

I do feel a need for exposing scams, gas prices going up, some on fixed incomes would be easy pray to vultures that would love to have a few extra million laying around from selling scam spark-plugs

Here a simple BS test that can be applied to most mileage improving scams:

Economy hardly ever comes with more HP, unless something was inadequate to start with!

 

[goof008]

I have (or had) a lot of toys and have gone thru a lot of plugs trying to get every 1/10 of hp out of everything from 454's to jet ski's and snowmobiles. I love NGK's, run them in every 2-stroke I've owned. But I did put an E3 in my Stihl and I like it. I can't say that it runs faster, cooler or a tank lasts any longer. But it does work good, not that the other ones didn't.
Long and short of it, find a plug you like and one that works like it's supposed to and be happy....you'll go crazy(and poor) trying every new plug that comes out. The E3 isn't expensive, is guaranteed not to foul, and is readily available. Sounds good to me.

 

[ShoerFast]

Goof

If I may?

One of the least expensive item we can buy for our saws are the spark-plugs.

One of the weakest links to a saws reliability and longevity is the coil/ignition module.

If an other then stock or factory recommended spark-plug is used that has an other then stock running resistance , that could lead to coil or module failure. Increasing the plug gap definitely increases the demands on the ignition system.

We can get factory recommended spark-plugs for what? $2 - 3 bucks, we can maybe get a used ignition module/coil for what? $100 bucks, + the losted day of cutting.

I have not seen one timed cut supporting an E3 plug, but would have to say that it would have to be by a huge margin before I would run one.

 

[ray benson]

In this day of EPA mandated emission standards the manufacturers of small engines are scrambling to meet the standards. Some are going to great lengths, even trying catalytic mufflers to meet them. If Husky or Stihl could get more power and cleaner burning in chainsaws by a simple plug change - don't ya think they would?

 

[goof008]

I'm not recommending one plug over another, I'm saying find one you like and works for you. My 95 snowmobile came with a Champion and I switched to NGK (a few years later the factory switched to NGK also). I put over 6000 miles on NGK plugs on that sled and two more after that. Manufacturers look at many things when they choose what to use, not just what makes the saw run the best. You have to look at things like pricing, ability to deliver enough plugs, and the relationship they have with the OEM. There are enough "other" choices out there that if one supplier gets in the dog house with an OEM, they can easily switch suppliers.
It would also be a huge waste of time to run a saw that works well on NGK's on split fires, bosh, E3, Champion, etc. They run it on what they have run it on before, at least that is how they do it in the Auto industry.
I picked up my E3 at Lowes while I was getting a bunch of things, including a plug and fuel filter for my tractor. I thought it couldn't hurt to have a spare plug. When the saw was difficult starting, which it never was until that time, I thought I'd switch out the plug. I'm not saying it's any better or worse than the original, I'm just saying it works for me and my Stihl just fine.
And a person mis-gapping the factory plug can mess up a saw's electricals too. So not even the factory plug is fool proof.