Eastonmade Wood Splitter

[NSMaple1]

And who finances $20K in gear for a non-commercial operation?

 

[farmer steve]

And who finances $20K in gear for a non-commercial operation?

+1

 

[c5rulz]

Insurance wouldn't allow it, underwriting threatened to cancel all policies

Well it is comforting to know that the abuse that caused the damage was done by either your or your minions.

 

[c5rulz]

Yes this reminds me of a similar splitter story where the operator was given an almost complete new splitter by the mfg and still destroyed it because he was to dumb to understand the concepts of splitting gnarly wood. @Bryan Dodge 200 cords is a commercial operation.

I remember the incident you are referring to. Similar to say the least. The guy had a processor and cut the "uglies" out to run through a small conventional splitter he equipped with a bolt on 4 way that was labeled, "Not for hardwoods". (Even this cretin knew that running it through the high end processor would wreak havoc with this kind of abuse) The guy wrecked quite a few 4 ways and eventually the splitter. The forum sponsor bent over backwards for the guy but that was not good enough.

 

[bubmiller]

In the one email I offered to give you a full refund on your 22-28 if purchasing a 38-40. In the email after that you proposed that I send you down 38-40 and a new STK24 conveyor (a value of $32,000) in exchange you would tell me what I had to do differently with my splitters to make them better and not blackmail me. I declined. I didn't feel that you were the correct person to partner with in this venture. You had a problem with a hydraulic filter and you were unable to tell me exactly what was wrong with it. This is a very simple component. If you couldn't tell me where the fault was in the filter than I doubt your engineering expertise is up to par.

In the next email you said "okay, are you absolutely sure?" I responded with going into detail about the new frame we were working on specifically for you. I feel this one is pretty much indestructible and a good solution to your problem. I wanted to send you one at the end of January after we have tried to wreck it ourselves.

In the next email you responded with how upset you were with this proposal and my equipment. You brought up your proposal and how much it would benefit myself and not you (I think anyone would appreciate a $32,000 gift). At this point I felt there was nothing I could do to satisfy you, and I felt as though you were being unreasonable. I did not want to exhaust any more of my time and energy into you or the MD group.

Andrew

I can't believe you won't give him a free $12k upgrade, or partner with someone that asks for a free upgrade.

JK! You need to select your customers more carefully.

 

[Bryan Dodge]

Yes this reminds me of a similar splitter story where the operator was given an almost complete new splitter by the mfg and still destroyed it because he was to dumb to understand the concepts of splitting gnarly wood. @Bryan Dodge 200 cords is a commercial operation.

And who finances $20K in gear for a non-commercial operation?

Somebody that is trying to get ahead

 

[Bryan Dodge]

I can't believe you won't give him a free $12k upgrade, or partner with someone that asks for a free upgrade.

JK! You need to select your customers more carefully.

Customers need to choose manufacturers more carefully, unfortunately my lack of due diligence on this purchase has costed me dearly. I asked for a upgrade due to the amount of changes that are needed for these units. Didn't ask for a partnership, I asked to be compensated for time, material, data and R&D which has been grossly overlooked.
I didn't ask him for anything prior to these issues, only asked why? Never experienced any of these issues with other equipment, so, had to ask why? I specifically sent photos and asked if he had dealt with theses issues in the past, repeatedly, not one, not two, not three or four instances. I am only warning potential buyers that this is what you will encounter.

 

[Bryan Dodge]

+1

Someone trying to get a step ahead

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Somebody that is trying to get ahead

Okay, so you ARE commercial now.

 

[c5rulz]

Somebody that is trying to get ahead

I am now amused by this thread. Reminds me of the old saying, "when you hit rock bottom, start to dig".

 

[Jhenderson]

Customers need to choose manufacturers more carefully, unfortunately my lack of due diligence on this purchase has costed me dearly. I asked for a upgrade due to the amount of changes that are needed for these units. Didn't ask for a partnership, I asked to be compensated for time, material, data and R&D which has been grossly overlooked.
I didn't ask him for anything prior to these issues, only asked why? Never experienced any of these issues with other equipment, so, had to ask why? I specifically sent photos and asked if he had dealt with theses issues in the past, repeatedly, not one, not two, not three or four instances. I am only warning potential buyers that this is what you will encounter.

Buy a new appliance, tractor, truck, camper, etc and tell them they have to compensate you for ANYTHING! Up grade? No this is what we make. If you don’t like it, build your own. That’s the manufacturing business. As for your ins co dropping you for renting a splitter? B.S. Every rental co in the country rents out splitters. Nobody buys an $8K splitter for personal use.

 

[sirbuildalot]

How he chooses to spend his money is his choice. We shouldn't fault him for that.

I agree it sounds like a commercial application, but I don't believe that is what caused the issues with the machine. There are many commercial operations that produce hundreds, if not thousands of cords a year with minimal breakages, only routine maintenance. For a machine like the Eastonmade to have those issues that quickly, the only logical reason is operator error. If it were a defect in the equipment, other people would have the same issues. Every guy/company I personally know who run multi-way wedges, take them off and use the single wedge when they get into large knotty stuff. Whether a rental customer, or an employee, people need to be held responsible for their actions.

It sucks that Bryan has experienced these issues, but reading the emails it sounds as though he was looking for more than a solution to this problem. It'd be like buying a new house. The roof has a small leak, instead of fixing the leak, you want a new two car garage built.

Bryan, you should talk to your employees about using common sense when splitting wood. If my employees ruined a 20k machine in less than a year, they'd of been spoken too, and if the problem persisted, fired.

 

[bubmiller]

Customers need to choose manufacturers more carefully, unfortunately my lack of due diligence on this purchase has costed me dearly. I asked for a upgrade due to the amount of changes that are needed for these units. Didn't ask for a partnership, I asked to be compensated for time, material, data and R&D which has been grossly overlooked.
I didn't ask him for anything prior to these issues, only asked why? Never experienced any of these issues with other equipment, so, had to ask why? I specifically sent photos and asked if he had dealt with theses issues in the past, repeatedly, not one, not two, not three or four instances. I am only warning potential buyers that this is what you will encounter.

When you asked about the price of an upgrade he offered a full refund on the unit you have. Did you ask him to return this unit for a refund, and can we see the email, or text in which you did that? If he did not ask you to re-engineer the product, then he has no obligation to reimburse you for time, material, data, or R&D.

"Customers need to choose manufacturers more carefully" Thanks for that! If I'm ever in the market for such a product, Andrew is the first three names on the top of my list.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

I am now amused by this thread. Reminds me of the old saying, "when you hit rock bottom, start to dig".

In stereo!

 

[Andrew@eastonmade]

October 31st you send me pictures of what has happened to the wedge. I told you I can get you down and updated replacement. Not quite sure why you would assume that I would send you wings and not an entire wedge. I wouldn't ever expect a customer to weld on wings unless they recommended it or were eager to do it. If not done properly they won't stay on!!! I took holidays the following week (deer season only comes ones a year). I didn't get to excited about the wedge because clearly it still worked. You expressed interest in getting the phenolic sourced locally at this same time. I like and idiot assumed you had this repaired (I did say I would get some down to you). While sitting in the woods deer hunting I thought "I really want to look after this guy". When I got back I starting redesigning this for you. I didn't figure there was any point in sending out new wear plates as there was no possible way you could hurt the machine more than you already have. The new ones certainly wouldn't last with a beam that looked like that anyways. You contacted me on december 12th wondering about the wear plates (38 more hours on the clock in a month. The machine was running) I let you know we were working on a new design for the beam. We got the new frame assembled on december 15th (this is why I said we were working on it) . On december 17th you said that you wanted a new machine AND another conveyor that was $20,000 more than your initial splitter purchase (still not sure what was wrong with the conveyor besides a hydraulic filter. You were unable to elaborate on this for me when I asked. And I was prompt to reply. This was at 9:46. I replied at 9:52 with no return response). At this time I felt this request was "UPSURD". You threatened me with "are you absolutely sure". I sent you pictures of the new frame design and explained to you what was different and why. You expressed zero interest in me sending you a new frame and parts to fix this (Seemed as though you really wanted a machine that was twice the price AND a new conveyor) You assured me that your proposal would only benefit me (at a loss of $32000?). I then told you that I am was putting forth an honest effort to accommodate you and make this right for you. I stated that it may be best if we go our separate ways. I didn't feel there was anything REASONABLE I could do to satisfy you. You then said "This was the response I was looking for" Seemed as though this is what you wanted me to say from the beginning. You then said you were going to post youtube videos and post on other forums after speaking with your attorney (what did he say?). December 19th you start posting here.

Its all in the text messages and emails bryan that you threatened you would post. (figured I would save you some work)

I'm not afraid to throw this out there Bryan. As a business owner I'm not quite sure what I could do to make this right for you (again within reason)? We have hundreds of these units out there. Many of them running in the most demanding commercial environments. And in that many machines I have only ever encountered negligence on this level once before. And we did the same thing for the other gentleman. We sent him down some new parts. He admitted that it was from his own negligence (almost the exact same scenario) and we both continued on with out lives. I have a great happy customer out of it and he has a machine he is happy with and can be proud of.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Buy a new appliance, tractor, truck, camper, etc and tell them they have to compensate you for ANYTHING! Up grade? No this is what we make. If you don’t like it, build your own. That’s the manufacturing business. As for your ins co dropping you for renting a splitter? B.S. Every rental co in the country rents out splitters. Nobody buys an $8K splitter for personal use.

Yeah, every rental company does rent splitters, but I've never seen one with anything but a regular two-way (single knife) wedge, and certainly never with an auto cycle. I love my auto cycle, but the number of people I'd let run it is fewer than the number of fingers I have on one hand, which is still five, by the way.

 

[NSMaple1]

I agree it sounds like a commercial application, but I don't believe that is what caused the issues with the machine.

That is true - something like this could have happened to someone who was only splitting 10 cord a year for themselves in their backyard, in the wrong circumstances.

But the whole commercial/non-commercial issue/question/denial here is raising big credibility issues, IMO. Along with other things that have been said which I won't bother to point out...

 

[Andrew@eastonmade]

That was a point that was shown to me, there are alternatives, I offered these alternatives to him, he was not interested. Unfortunately time is money and nobody works for free.

You offered this to me at a cost of $32000. We have tried alternatives. I have a tremendous amount of experience in the design and fabrication of this equipment. UHMW (teflon) is far to soft and doesn't last at all even under normal conditions, Rollers dont work because they seize. The only other better alternative to phenolic that I know of is brass. I have looked into this. The cost is 20x that of phenolic. Bells has processors with thousands of hours on the original phenolic. I just don't see the advantage of driving the cost of the machine up that much for such little gain.

 

[farmer steve]

Someone trying to get a step ahead

I stay a step ahead by knowing the limitations of my equipment. I'm only running a TSC splitter that cost me less than a grand. I know it's limitations and run it accordingly. It's only my second splitter in 25 years. I split between 25 and 50 cord a year. My first splitter went to friend and it's Stihl runnin. I think if Andrew was building junk there wood be more than 1 person here complaining.

 

[c5rulz]

Yeah, every rental company does rent splitters, but I've never seen one with anything but a regular two-way (single knife) wedge, and certainly never with an auto cycle. I love my auto cycle, but the number of people I'd let run it is fewer than the number of fingers I have on one hand, which is still five, by the way.

Pretty much my thoughts too. There is a big difference in potential for abuse in multi wedge set up and injury with auto cycle compared to a conventional single knife wedge with regular valve. I would not let anyone run my current machine and the old Speeco really didn't matter, you could not hurt it and it was not built near as robust.