Echo Chainsaw Won't Pull With Brake On
- Thread starter Paul Bunions
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Most people don’t start saws on the ground with their foot in the handle. Hardly ever.
Most people either 1)“drop start” (generally considered poor practice nowadays ) or 2)tuck the rear handle between their legs and just pull the cord (generally considered correct).
The best way to start a short bar saw is the latter. Once you’ve done it a few times you’ll wonder why you ever drop-started.
As usual, there are different ways to skin a cat and as usual there are inept, unqualified “teachers” all over the ‘net.
Most people either 1)“drop start” (generally considered poor practice nowadays ) or 2)tuck the rear handle between their legs and just pull the cord (generally considered correct).
The best way to start a short bar saw is the latter. Once you’ve done it a few times you’ll wonder why you ever drop-started.
As usual, there are different ways to skin a cat and as usual there are inept, unqualified “teachers” all over the ‘net.
And there’s this. I never got comfortable this way.
It would be neat if they made saws with 4-sided holes on the ends of the shafts, so you could start them with power drills and socket-drive attachments. Would be a big help when dealing with a flooded saw or trying to start a saw repeatedly while making repairs.
Canyon Angler
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I treat the chain brake like the "safety" on a firearm: If there aren't flames coming out of one end, then the safety/chain brake is ON.
It takes a quarter-second to turn the chain brake ON and half a second to turn it OFF. I figure a limb or my life is worth it. YMMV.
OP, good luck with your saw.
It takes a quarter-second to turn the chain brake ON and half a second to turn it OFF. I figure a limb or my life is worth it. YMMV.
OP, good luck with your saw.
I plan to keep using the brake because I can't see any reason not to, and someone somewhere must have thought there was a good reason for creating it.
When engineers don't come up with safety devices on their own, lawyers for injured people help them spot their mistakes later. We are inundated with such devices now, along with insulting warnings telling us not to play inside plastic bags, but sometimes the devices make sense.
When engineers don't come up with safety devices on their own, lawyers for injured people help them spot their mistakes later. We are inundated with such devices now, along with insulting warnings telling us not to play inside plastic bags, but sometimes the devices make sense.
I seldom drop start a saw unless the engine is warm. When cold, I also do not hold the saw down with my foot. I simply look for a flat surface, hopefully about 16" high, such as a round log. If that's unavailable, I use the ground. I hold the saw down with my left hand atop the shroud and pull the cord with my right hand.
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I hold the saw with my left hand and pull on the rope with my right. Never had to place a saw on the ground to start one.
If you're comfortable using the brake, do so. I never have and that's the way I was taught. I don't cut anywhere's near as much as some might. But, I can say that I'm just as cautious as the pros. Maybe even more so, as it's not an everyday occurrence for me.
If you're comfortable using the brake, do so. I never have and that's the way I was taught. I don't cut anywhere's near as much as some might. But, I can say that I'm just as cautious as the pros. Maybe even more so, as it's not an everyday occurrence for me.
Trying to find a clear place in the brush makes holding the saw down with a foot a useless option. I grew up with saws that didn't have brakes and most of the ones I now own don't either. Paying attention to what you are doing and your ability to focus on safety issues like where the tip of the bar is are the things that keep you safe.
Yeah, to each their own.
I was simply pointing out to the OP, since he made it sound as if his excessive brake use/and forgetting to release it 'possibly' contributed to his clutch issue, that it's not really necessary to use it like a 'parking brake'.
Yes, there are times when handing a running saw to someone else, or many other awkward situations, that it's probably very wise to set the brake.
I can even see some logic in setting it when 'starting' the saw, especially for someone less experienced. I personally never have.
But the brake's primary function is a KICKBACK safety device, not a parking brake that must be set 'every time' the saw is sat down for a minute or two.
If there's little kids around, or other inexperienced Looky Loos in the vicinity, probably shouldn't be running a saw anyway until they leave your work area.
I was simply pointing out to the OP, since he made it sound as if his excessive brake use/and forgetting to release it 'possibly' contributed to his clutch issue, that it's not really necessary to use it like a 'parking brake'.
Yes, there are times when handing a running saw to someone else, or many other awkward situations, that it's probably very wise to set the brake.
I can even see some logic in setting it when 'starting' the saw, especially for someone less experienced. I personally never have.
But the brake's primary function is a KICKBACK safety device, not a parking brake that must be set 'every time' the saw is sat down for a minute or two.
If there's little kids around, or other inexperienced Looky Loos in the vicinity, probably shouldn't be running a saw anyway until they leave your work area.
In Post #47 I say that I sometimes start a saw with it resting on the ground, but I hate doing that and avoid it if at all possible. And, if I do, I make sure that the bar is as far from the ground as possible. I look for any solid support I can find to raise the engine up. Nothing makes a running chain dull much faster than rubbing the ground.
Canyon Angler
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In just the same way, your car brakes' primary function is to STOP your car by converting kinetic energy into heat.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't also use your brakes to HOLD your car in place at a stop light.
To help with the thread derailment, my older brother got a Husky 281 with an Irish Tillotson carb with the weenie air filter setup and a 42 inch oregon bar that he couldn't get started with the boot in the handlebar method. The now P.O. put the bar tip on the ground and fired it up in a few pulls. Since he learned that (and bought it), the saw only starts, warm or cold, with the bar tip on the ground. Is there a problem with the saw that causes that or is that just a unique quirk? It also has a steel handle chain brake that looks sorta like it's aftermarket. Is it or did those saws come with chain brakes?
The parts for the saw arrived, so at least I have my missing screw, and I replaced a plastic part that had lost a little nub.
I took the clutch off. When I inserted it in the drum, it became obvious that the drum was distorted. The clutch grabs it on one side. This must be my problem.
Here's what I don't get: how does a chainsaw clutch drum get bent? This saw has never been dropped or hit with anything. The clutch issue started on a day when I was starting and stopping the saw to see if I could get the carb fixed. The brake worked properly, and then it locked up.
My wild guess is that since impact wasn't the cause, heat must have been involved.
I am wondering if using the brake could contribute to heat problems. I have noticed that when you run a saw briefly with the brake on, heat builds up very quickly at the sprocket end of the bar. Apparently the moving chain carries heat away, so when you rev the motor with the chain locked, the heat has nowhere to go.
Don't ask me why I would rev a saw with the brake on. It was a different saw. I was probably trying to wake it up after it stalled.
I took the clutch off. When I inserted it in the drum, it became obvious that the drum was distorted. The clutch grabs it on one side. This must be my problem.
Here's what I don't get: how does a chainsaw clutch drum get bent? This saw has never been dropped or hit with anything. The clutch issue started on a day when I was starting and stopping the saw to see if I could get the carb fixed. The brake worked properly, and then it locked up.
My wild guess is that since impact wasn't the cause, heat must have been involved.
I am wondering if using the brake could contribute to heat problems. I have noticed that when you run a saw briefly with the brake on, heat builds up very quickly at the sprocket end of the bar. Apparently the moving chain carries heat away, so when you rev the motor with the chain locked, the heat has nowhere to go.
Don't ask me why I would rev a saw with the brake on. It was a different saw. I was probably trying to wake it up after it stalled.
Eskimo
ArboristSite Lurker
As the revs come up, the clutch shoes start to engage the drum. If the brake is set, then something has to give!
Slipping the clutch means generating heat.
It has been so long since the saw crapped out, I can't remember exactly what happened. I know for sure there haven't been any impacts to the drum.
Until I had this problem, I didn't even know chainsaws had centrifugal clutches. I had no idea what went on in there!
I don't know whether I revved it with the brake on or not, but something went wrong. I'm just trying to guess.
I know one of my other saws got hot while running with the brake on. I can't recall whether I revved it, which would be a strange thing to do, or I just let it sit idling. Anyway, I did notice that running it with the chain motionless caused heat to build up.
I have a new drum and needle bearing on the way. I don't think the needle bearing is bad, but as long as the saw is in pieces, I figure I'll change it.
Until I had this problem, I didn't even know chainsaws had centrifugal clutches. I had no idea what went on in there!
I don't know whether I revved it with the brake on or not, but something went wrong. I'm just trying to guess.
I know one of my other saws got hot while running with the brake on. I can't recall whether I revved it, which would be a strange thing to do, or I just let it sit idling. Anyway, I did notice that running it with the chain motionless caused heat to build up.
I have a new drum and needle bearing on the way. I don't think the needle bearing is bad, but as long as the saw is in pieces, I figure I'll change it.
Eskimo
ArboristSite Lurker
If I'm starting my saw with the brake on and with "fast idle" set, it gets taken off of fast idle right after the saw starts - just long enough to get the starter pull handle back in place and get my right hand on the throttle. It's all part of the drill.
If the saw is ever sitting idling, then it's on regular idle, and the clutch isn't trying to engage.
The drum looks fine on the inside, and the clutch looks okay, too. I don't see any wear to speak of. The outside of the drum has a gouge where the brake strap bit in. It looks like the drum was spinning against the brake, and the brake was only making contact on one side.
I wonder if the drum got bent when I took it to the repair place that failed to fix it.
I think they stuck me with an old carb. The original carb was bright and shiny, and the one it came home with looks oxidized. I noticed this after running Sea Foam through it. I don't think Sea Foam would oxidize aluminum. It wouldn't sell very well if it did. If they would pawn an old carb off on me, who knows what they might have done to the drum?
I don't see why it would have stopped working suddenly, though. If the drum came back to me bent, I would have expected it to lock up immediately instead of waiting for several starts.
I wonder if the drum got bent when I took it to the repair place that failed to fix it.
I think they stuck me with an old carb. The original carb was bright and shiny, and the one it came home with looks oxidized. I noticed this after running Sea Foam through it. I don't think Sea Foam would oxidize aluminum. It wouldn't sell very well if it did. If they would pawn an old carb off on me, who knows what they might have done to the drum?
I don't see why it would have stopped working suddenly, though. If the drum came back to me bent, I would have expected it to lock up immediately instead of waiting for several starts.
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Can you put up a pic of the bearing?
I can grab it tomorrow.
