Echo Gloves: not that Safe?

[Paul Bunions]

I finally broke down and ordered some chaps, and when I read that the top of the left hand was one of the most common sites for injuries, I also ordered some Echo safety gloves. I didn't look at them too carefully. I figured Echo would know how to make a safety glove.

They have two big features: vibration protection and cut protection. I'm all for the vibration protection. My right hand feels a little funny sometimes, and I think it may have something to do with the time I've put in with angle grinders.

I thought the gloves would contain the same stuff as chaps. Looks like they do not. Far as I can tell, they rely on kevlar to prevent cuts.

I am not overly impressed with kevlar. From riding motorcycles, I know it is vastly inferior to leather when it comes to preventing road rash. Not even in the same universe.

I've used kevlar gloves for cutting up fish, but they had stainless wires in them, and a filet knife is not a chainsaw.

Did I get the wrong gloves?

 

[HumBurner]

I finally broke down and ordered some chaps, and when I read that the top of the left hand was one of the most common sites for injuries, I also ordered some Echo safety gloves. I didn't look at them too carefully. I figured Echo would know how to make a safety glove.

They have two big features: vibration protection and cut protection. I'm all for the vibration protection. My right hand feels a little funny sometimes, and I think it may have something to do with the time I've put in with angle grinders.

I thought the gloves would contain the same stuff as chaps. Looks like they do not. Far as I can tell, they rely on kevlar to prevent cuts.

I am not overly impressed with kevlar. From riding motorcycles, I know it is vastly inferior to leather when it comes to preventing road rash. Not even in the same universe.

I've used kevlar gloves for cutting up fish, but they had stainless wires in them, and a filet knife is not a chainsaw.

Did I get the wrong gloves?

Kevlar and courdoura are fairly close. I would say practice awareness and mindfulness instead of relying on gimmicky-gloves.

 

[promechanic]

Not safety advice, but the leather vs kevlar comparison with bikes and chainsaws is apples and oranges. Leather is like cutting butter to a chainsaw, but Kevlar fibers will stop a saw faster than a chain brake.

 

[Michael E]

The only time you can injure your left hand with a chainsaw is when you use the saw one-handed and hold the wood with your left hand. That is simply bad practice. Always keep both hands on the saw.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

Chainsaw gloves? Whether they made them with the right or wrong material really isn't the issue. The issue is why would you need them? Man, if you need gloves, get some latex palm, nylon fabric models. Cut the finger tips out if that floats your boat. That saw will never slip loose. Get them wet for a few days and leave your hand on the saw long enough and they will literally stick to the handle. You'll need Goof-Off to get the residue off the saw

When little Forrest was dangling from that tree, his socks had that latex crap on the back side. That's why Jenny was so angry. Her socks didn't have that.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing PPE that you probably shouldn't need. Just don't let it make you complacent.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

Agreed on PPE if you think you need it. But I don't think Echo is wrong on the material. They've been doing this a long time. Kevlar is what they use in good chaps and chainsaw pants.

 

[moxiemaul]

Sometimes I think I need a kevlar vest, or armor plate in the woods. Recently I've been working on brambles to get into forest areas not touched in quite a few years- got tripped twice already by a loop in a bramble one end rooted the other stuck under the felled tree or whatever- the brambles don't break they might as well be a piece of rope. Last one I nearly faceplanted on a snag, buried the saw tip to break my fall- thankfully got out with just a bruise. Its got me really careful with clearing ground for footing, and foot placement.

The bramble thorns go right thru my gloves too- as bad as black locust. At least swinging the top of the 30" bar pushes everything away.

 

[Hermio]

I finally broke down and ordered some chaps, and when I read that the top of the left hand was one of the most common sites for injuries, I also ordered some Echo safety gloves. I didn't look at them too carefully. I figured Echo would know how to make a safety glove.

They have two big features: vibration protection and cut protection. I'm all for the vibration protection. My right hand feels a little funny sometimes, and I think it may have something to do with the time I've put in with angle grinders.

I thought the gloves would contain the same stuff as chaps. Looks like they do not. Far as I can tell, they rely on kevlar to prevent cuts.

I am not overly impressed with kevlar. From riding motorcycles, I know it is vastly inferior to leather when it comes to preventing road rash. Not even in the same universe.

I've used kevlar gloves for cutting up fish, but they had stainless wires in them, and a filet knife is not a chainsaw.

Did I get the wrong gloves?

I am curious. How does the left hand get injured? It always seemed to me that if you are gripping the handle, your left hand should be quite safe from chain-inflicted injuries. And the saw tends to throw small branches under the saw, not on top. I wear gloves using a chainsaw primarily for vibration protection and only when it is not too hot outside. My main use of gloves is for splinter protection when handling wood. I can see it would be useful for dealing with thorns in some cases.

 

[Paul Bunions]

Don't mistake me for a person who knows much about safety. I read that people get tons of left-hand injuries from things like kickback and flying chains. I don't know much about it.

I just read that a lot of people are holding things with the left hand while cutting with the right. I may not be smart, but I would never try that. I have probably cut a couple of things one-handed in the past, without involving the left hand, but if so, it was so long ago, I don't recall it.

I have not experienced kickback yet, and I use full-chisel chains. Stories about it have made me paranoid, but I bore-cut a lot, and it never happens. I always try to stand to the left of the saw.

I don't have that much experience. I would guess that if you added it all up, it would be like a couple of months with a professional crew. I fell a tree here and there, and I clean up fallen trees. I don't use firewood.

I am going to wear gloves one way or the other because of vibration.

My first pair of chaps arrived today. Not looking forward to putting all this junk on in Florida. I really have to make a better effort to get this kind of work done in the cool months.

 

[Hermio]

Don't mistake me for a person who knows much about safety. I read that people get tons of left-hand injuries from things like kickback and flying chains. I don't know much about it.

I just read that a lot of people are holding things with the left hand while cutting with the right. I may not be smart, but I would never try that. I have probably cut a couple of things one-handed in the past, without involving the left hand, but if so, it was so long ago, I don't recall it.

I have not experienced kickback yet, and I use full-chisel chains. Stories about it have made me paranoid, but I bore-cut a lot, and it never happens. I always try to stand to the left of the saw.

I don't have that much experience. I would guess that if you added it all up, it would be like a couple of months with a professional crew. I fell a tree here and there, and I clean up fallen trees. I don't use firewood.

I am going to wear gloves one way or the other because of vibration.

My first pair of chaps arrived today. Not looking forward to putting all this junk on in Florida. I really have to make a better effort to get this kind of work done in the cool months.

Usually, kickback endangers the face or chest. Moreover, at least on modern saws, the anti-kickback brake is activated either by sudden movement of the saw (inertial trigger) or by the left hand contacting the chain brake lever. In either case, the chain should stop in less than 0.1s, even at full throttle. I would guess that in peak condition, the brake actually stops the chain much faster than that. I could see that bruising the back of the hand might be possible with a severe kickback due to hitting the brake lever hard, but I don't see gloves helping a lot with that. I also use a full chisel chain, and presently I use a Stihl MS500i, which is a powerful saw with a 62-mph chain speed, but the few kickbacks I have had with it have not come anywhere close to hitting me. My biggest injury risk seems to come from what the tree is doing rather than what the saw is doing. I have had limbs on the ground under tension spring away when being cut, with considerable force. The trick is to make sure your body is not where it will spring. And dead trees can drop stuff on your head while felling. I do often get hit in the shins when cutting small branches off the main trunk with the 500i; the full chisel chain is a bit grabby on anything smaller than 3" diameter.
I hear you on wearing all that stuff in hot weather. Here in Ohio, I rarely cut wood when it is warmer than 60 degrees, so most of it is done in the fall.

 

[Paul Bunions]

I just watched a kickback video, and I think I have experienced it. I thought "kickback" only meant having the saw rotate upward when the tip hit the wood wrong. I didn't realize it also meant having the saw push backward while deep in cuts or when cutting up into wood from the bottom. I think these things have probably happened, but I have never had a saw do anything that threatened my control at all. I am pretty cowardly about pushing saws, so I guess I am not likely to get in much trouble.

Regarding springing branches and so on, to me, this is the biggest safety challenge for me. I am constantly presented with limbs and trunks bent and twisted into springs, as well as things I know are going to fall when cut. My feeling is that a good understanding of the physics is extremely important, because if you can read a tree and predict what it could do, you can avoid problems that would hurt a lot of other people.

I wear steel-toed boots, and when I'm not positive I know where something is going to go, I like to use a pole saw. I have seen people do things you couldn't pay me to do. They were always okay, but it seemed like luck to me. I think a long string of lucky cuts will train a person to be right in the way when the luck runs out.

I was helping a guy cut a tree that was suspended horizontally above the ground, and some parts of the trunk were at least 12 feet up. The trunk was probably 15" thick at one end. He reached up with a pole saw and cut it while standing under it.

Wood is also tricky when putting it on the tractor or just picking it up. It loves to rotate and hit you in the face, and it likes to try to move backward on the loader and try to kill you.

Right now I have two multi-ton piles a crew left. They used a powerful dedicated grapple to make the piles. I thought I would take them apart and put them some place else with the tractor. I decided not to try. They moved really large pieces of wood and put them pretty high up. If they roll around on my forks, they could turn the tractor over or do God knows what to me. I would have to pull the piles apart with a tow strap.

 

[irhunter]

Kevlar and courdoura are fairly close.

No.

Cordura is a type of fabric generally made from nylon fibers.

Kevlar is a type of fiber which can be spun, and then woven, into any number of different types of cloth, rope, or such.

Kevlar is what they use in good chaps and chainsaw pants.

^^^^^^^^^^+1

The feds, at one time, were keeping track of where on the body saw injuries occurred. They found the left hand to be a common site. I suspect, most of that was kick-back. Maybe, left-hand-release of the chain brake got some??

https://www.osha.gov/etools/logging/manual-operations/logger/chain-saw/saw-injuries

Roy

 

[moxiemaul]

No way you're getting out clean lol; I was splitting some wood the other day- perfectly harmless mostly dry black locust and damn if a section didn't spall off and smack me in the shins hard enough to draw blood. I guess the move is to adjust the odds as much as possible in your favor.

 

[Paul Bunions]

I'm not supposed to release the brake with the left hand? Do I have to have a Ph.D. to run this thing? Is there no end to this stuff?

 

[diver64]

The only time you can injure your left hand with a chainsaw is when you use the saw one-handed and hold the wood with your left hand. That is simply bad practice. Always keep both hands on the saw.

Not really. I took off 2 fingers on my left hand with a big Jonsered that had no chain brake. Got a kick back and stopped it to the right of my head but I paid a price. Got them sewed on and they work but little feeling from the nerves however I gained a ton of respect as to how fast that can happen. Now if I'm in the woods I always have steel toed leather boots, my LaBonnville chaps and gloves for grip. Eyewear of course

 

[Hermio]

I just watched a kickback video, and I think I have experienced it. I thought "kickback" only meant having the saw rotate upward when the tip hit the wood wrong. I didn't realize it also meant having the saw push backward while deep in cuts or when cutting up into wood from the bottom. I think these things have probably happened, but I have never had a saw do anything that threatened my control at all. I am pretty cowardly about pushing saws, so I guess I am not likely to get in much trouble.

Regarding springing branches and so on, to me, this is the biggest safety challenge for me. I am constantly presented with limbs and trunks bent and twisted into springs, as well as things I know are going to fall when cut. My feeling is that a good understanding of the physics is extremely important, because if you can read a tree and predict what it could do, you can avoid problems that would hurt a lot of other people.

I wear steel-toed boots, and when I'm not positive I know where something is going to go, I like to use a pole saw. I have seen people do things you couldn't pay me to do. They were always okay, but it seemed like luck to me. I think a long string of lucky cuts will train a person to be right in the way when the luck runs out.

I was helping a guy cut a tree that was suspended horizontally above the ground, and some parts of the trunk were at least 12 feet up. The trunk was probably 15" thick at one end. He reached up with a pole saw and cut it while standing under it.

Wood is also tricky when putting it on the tractor or just picking it up. It loves to rotate and hit you in the face, and it likes to try to move backward on the loader and try to kill you.

Right now I have two multi-ton piles a crew left. They used a powerful dedicated grapple to make the piles. I thought I would take them apart and put them some place else with the tractor. I decided not to try. They moved really large pieces of wood and put them pretty high up. If they roll around on my forks, they could turn the tractor over or do God knows what to me. I would have to pull the piles apart with a tow strap.

You are a thinking man. That goes a long way towards preventing injury. Moving logs with a fork seems easy and convenient, but not secure with large logs lifted high with too much tilt. A grapple is better, but we don't all have them. The tow strap is safe but may get your wood dirty. Well, it is not that time consuming to tough up a chain with a file. (I use the Pferd 2 in 1 system, which also files down the rakers.) As for using a tractor, in the woods I strongly prefer a hydrostatic drive for safety. If you get into trouble, you may not be able to push in a clutch fast enough to stop it.

 

[Hermio]

No way you're getting out clean lol; I was splitting some wood the other day- perfectly harmless mostly dry black locust and damn if a section didn't spall off and smack me in the shins hard enough to draw blood. I guess the move is to adjust the odds as much as possible in your favor.

The chaps help with that, too, to some degree. But I have seen some people cut wood wearing shorts and no PPE. If they had what you experienced, maybe they would learn better.

 

[Hermio]

I'm not supposed to release the brake with the left hand? Do I have to have a Ph.D. to run this thing? Is there no end to this stuff?

You can release the brake with either hand. But the left hand normally trips it, unless you hold the saw in a weird way or perhaps when making a back cut in certain situations. But I have never had a kickback when making a back cut.

 

[Hermio]

Not really. I took off 2 fingers on my left hand with a big Jonsered that had no chain brake. Got a kick back and stopped it to the right of my head but I paid a price. Got them sewed on and they work but little feeling from the nerves however I gained a ton of respect as to how fast that can happen. Now if I'm in the woods I always have steel toed leather boots, my LaBonnville chaps and gloves for grip. Eyewear of course

All I can say is wow! I am glad you were able to get to the hospital fast enough to save the fingers. And I am sure the cut was raggedy and full of oil and sawdust, making the surgery more difficult.