CharlieG
Addicted to ArboristSite
I think they mean C="cap", Lakeside.
Echo guys- what is the breakdown of their "commercial" and "consumer" lines?
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
ah....
RED-85-Z51
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sorry I missed this one.
alright, where to start???/
First off, Echo doesnt seperate their equipment by Quality or projected product life, like some other manufacturers do. They dont make a Low end, mid grade and pro grade piece of equipment...All their products are Pro-Grade, with the industries highest emissions compliance longevity rating of 300+ hours across the board. NO other manufacturer can say that...NONE.
Echo is devoted to maximizing 2 stroke technology, not strato-charging, not 4 strokes or 4 stroke hybrids,
Yes, some uquipment may seem "lean" at first, but Ive never seen any product we've sold come back with lean damage. The fact is that there is a break in period where the motor may seem less than powerful, usually after a dozens or so tanks the motor is fully broken in, compression is peaked, and its ready to work. Many people assume this is a lean condition. Echo sets all carbs at the factory on all models except the CS-670 and CS-8000, which are only available at a dealer where they unpack it and tach it out to set the engine speed.
Pricing is set by Echo, so if you buy at a Dealer, or buy at HD..the price will be the same. However I suggest buying at a dealer, the saw will be prepped and setup and ready to go and you will be shown how to use it.
The 520 will pull the stock 20" bar and chain pretty good, pine, oak, etc...really a great running well balanced saw. If yu put an 18" bar on chain on it, it's unstoppable. The saw comes shipped to dealers and HD with a 20" .325"/0,050ga bar and oregon safety chain. The bar is very nice, the chain is a good learner chain, but the saw wakes up BIG TIME with non-safety chain.
The 440 will not be happy with a 20" bar...only 6cc's less, but it just wont pull it in hard wood with the bar buried. So it comes with an 18" bar, and runs that bar fine.
The top handle units with the air filter up front are extremely popular, people that own them rave about how well they perform. People who dont know, like to talk about how the air filters plug quickly on these models, but that is a lie. IF you cut regularly, and dont tap out the filter for a week or so, you may encounter some build up...maybe. We had one of these saws come in that the owner had removed the filter and forgot to replace it, and used it for a season like that. The filter box was packed with debris, the carb itself was totally covered except for right at the air horn. It took a whole bottle of brake kleen and an air hose to clean it up, but the saw ran normally, compression read over 140 as I recall.
The orange saws, the 370 and 400 currently, soon to include the 450, have a new engine that featured a single ring piston. Now dont be fooled, they have really done their homework and the saws dont fall off in power at all. The new style does with one ring, which has less friction and runs cooler, than a conventional 2 ring design. Yet it more easily passes emissions regulations. We've got 370's that have been in the field for a year and a half + and have not heard a peep out of any of them as far as repairs are concerned, just a new chain avery now and then. The old 2 ring style is going to very slowly be phased out and replaced with the 1 ring style engines, as their respective models are dropped and new models are added. The first saw to be dropped and replaced is the CS-440, with the new 1 ring CS-450.
Echo has just done amazing things with the new engines. For years the mentality was that 1 ring was bad. But the new ring with its unique shape, and the unimaginable engine tolerances, makes it all come together in a long lasting reliable package that will last as long if not longer than a 2 ring model, simply because 1 ring means 1 less ring rubbing the cylinder every cycle. This results in less heat in the piston, less heat in the cylinder, les parasitic power loss, and less expense. If the new design wasnt absolutely sound, yo ucan bet Echo wouldnt offer it, but Ive heard only great things about it.
As for the death rattle, and CS-360T models, Im not sure what you are talking about. Its not my favorite design, but the powerhead is nice and they seem to run well. People cant seem to hurt them, and arborists love them as climbers. There was some problems initially with the intake boot ripping, ended up being the problem was a weak tether loop that would break, causing climbers to tie the rope around the handle. The violent jerking of the saw, which would occasionally be dropped and stopped from hitting the ground by the tether, would result in extreme excusrion by the AV mounts, resulting in a ripped intake boot. It took almost a year for the dealer network to figure out the common link in all the failures, but once found Echo redesigned the whole saw with a much beefier AV system and a beefier nearly unbreakable tether loop..problem solved.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
alright, where to start???/
First off, Echo doesnt seperate their equipment by Quality or projected product life, like some other manufacturers do. They dont make a Low end, mid grade and pro grade piece of equipment...All their products are Pro-Grade, with the industries highest emissions compliance longevity rating of 300+ hours across the board. NO other manufacturer can say that...NONE.
Echo is devoted to maximizing 2 stroke technology, not strato-charging, not 4 strokes or 4 stroke hybrids,
Yes, some uquipment may seem "lean" at first, but Ive never seen any product we've sold come back with lean damage. The fact is that there is a break in period where the motor may seem less than powerful, usually after a dozens or so tanks the motor is fully broken in, compression is peaked, and its ready to work. Many people assume this is a lean condition. Echo sets all carbs at the factory on all models except the CS-670 and CS-8000, which are only available at a dealer where they unpack it and tach it out to set the engine speed.
Pricing is set by Echo, so if you buy at a Dealer, or buy at HD..the price will be the same. However I suggest buying at a dealer, the saw will be prepped and setup and ready to go and you will be shown how to use it.
The 520 will pull the stock 20" bar and chain pretty good, pine, oak, etc...really a great running well balanced saw. If yu put an 18" bar on chain on it, it's unstoppable. The saw comes shipped to dealers and HD with a 20" .325"/0,050ga bar and oregon safety chain. The bar is very nice, the chain is a good learner chain, but the saw wakes up BIG TIME with non-safety chain.
The 440 will not be happy with a 20" bar...only 6cc's less, but it just wont pull it in hard wood with the bar buried. So it comes with an 18" bar, and runs that bar fine.
The top handle units with the air filter up front are extremely popular, people that own them rave about how well they perform. People who dont know, like to talk about how the air filters plug quickly on these models, but that is a lie. IF you cut regularly, and dont tap out the filter for a week or so, you may encounter some build up...maybe. We had one of these saws come in that the owner had removed the filter and forgot to replace it, and used it for a season like that. The filter box was packed with debris, the carb itself was totally covered except for right at the air horn. It took a whole bottle of brake kleen and an air hose to clean it up, but the saw ran normally, compression read over 140 as I recall.
The orange saws, the 370 and 400 currently, soon to include the 450, have a new engine that featured a single ring piston. Now dont be fooled, they have really done their homework and the saws dont fall off in power at all. The new style does with one ring, which has less friction and runs cooler, than a conventional 2 ring design. Yet it more easily passes emissions regulations. We've got 370's that have been in the field for a year and a half + and have not heard a peep out of any of them as far as repairs are concerned, just a new chain avery now and then. The old 2 ring style is going to very slowly be phased out and replaced with the 1 ring style engines, as their respective models are dropped and new models are added. The first saw to be dropped and replaced is the CS-440, with the new 1 ring CS-450.
Echo has just done amazing things with the new engines. For years the mentality was that 1 ring was bad. But the new ring with its unique shape, and the unimaginable engine tolerances, makes it all come together in a long lasting reliable package that will last as long if not longer than a 2 ring model, simply because 1 ring means 1 less ring rubbing the cylinder every cycle. This results in less heat in the piston, less heat in the cylinder, les parasitic power loss, and less expense. If the new design wasnt absolutely sound, yo ucan bet Echo wouldnt offer it, but Ive heard only great things about it.
As for the death rattle, and CS-360T models, Im not sure what you are talking about. Its not my favorite design, but the powerhead is nice and they seem to run well. People cant seem to hurt them, and arborists love them as climbers. There was some problems initially with the intake boot ripping, ended up being the problem was a weak tether loop that would break, causing climbers to tie the rope around the handle. The violent jerking of the saw, which would occasionally be dropped and stopped from hitting the ground by the tether, would result in extreme excusrion by the AV mounts, resulting in a ripped intake boot. It took almost a year for the dealer network to figure out the common link in all the failures, but once found Echo redesigned the whole saw with a much beefier AV system and a beefier nearly unbreakable tether loop..problem solved.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
Just Mow
Don't touch my Willie !!!
Texas, what did you expect cap:jawdrop:
Just Mow
Don't touch my Willie !!!
Red, I think they need to hire you. A walking echo billboard you are. All full of their shiiit.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
sigh... marketing speak regurgitated after drinking the cool-aid.
The 50 verses 300 hour emission compliance is BS... It's "voluntary", but the BS for a failed unit randomly grabbed in the field make it not worth the sticker. The major brands just thumbed their noses at it. It's like Echo's highly touted 5 year warranty.. marketing. speak...
Your Echo's wil have cats on them for 2010...
Mow can take over now.
The 50 verses 300 hour emission compliance is BS... It's "voluntary", but the BS for a failed unit randomly grabbed in the field make it not worth the sticker. The major brands just thumbed their noses at it. It's like Echo's highly touted 5 year warranty.. marketing. speak...
Your Echo's wil have cats on them for 2010...
Mow can take over now.
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RED-85-Z51
Addicted to ArboristSite
If Stihl had the Class C rating across the board, and the industries best warranty...you'd be singing its praises on here. But they dont..they cant say they have the endustries best warranty, nor the highest Emissions compliance rating..
Stihl stuff couldnt pull off a class C rating across all lines, so they settle for B...possibly even A on some of their homeowner trimmers...
RED-85-Z51
Addicted to ArboristSite
I see you added some LAke...
Ill take a cat over a strato-charge system...
Ill take a top of the line 2 stroke, with a cat, over a 4 cycle or 4 cycle hybrid.
Ill take a cat over a strato-charge system...
Ill take a top of the line 2 stroke, with a cat, over a 4 cycle or 4 cycle hybrid.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
If Stihl had the Class C rating across the board, and the industries best warranty...you'd be singing its praises on here. But they dont..they cant say they have the endustries best warranty, nor the highest Emissions compliance rating..
Stihl stuff couldnt pull off a class C rating across all lines, so they settle for B...possibly even A on some of their homeowner trimmers...
you're so full of it..
THALL10326
The Champ
If Stihl had the Class C rating across the board, and the industries best warranty...you'd be singing its praises on here. But they dont..they cant say they have the endustries best warranty, nor the highest Emissions compliance rating..
Stihl stuff couldnt pull off a class C rating across all lines, so they settle for B...possibly even A on some of their homeowner trimmers...
Whats better than a great warranty, a product line in which 99.7% never need a warranty, best in the biz by the way, who, Stihl of course,:jawdrop: :jawdrop:
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Ever seen a cat on a 60 or 70cc saw? LOLOLOL Calculate (actually, just feel it..) the heat (oh.. heat = POWER) loss... of course, if all you sell is 50cc and below to homeowners, nobody will care...
THALL10326
The Champ
They don't callem a after burner for nothing,LOLOLOL
RED-85-Z51
Addicted to ArboristSite
So I can assume you are seeing power loss on Stihls with Cats then? Stihl has been using cats to squeak past emmission regs for over 20 years now...as far as I know the 044C was within the 60-70cc range you posted...if not higher.
Echo is just now having to delve into using cats...
Bowtie
Gearhead
case point...Echo SRM 260. I own one, runs good. Went to mod the muffler. CAT...ok no problem just tweak carb...NO IDLE SCREW FOR LOW OR HIGH JET!!!
This is my fault, for not doing my research and buying a strimmer that I cant do #### to for adjustments!!! Echo is low quality chinese junk.
This is my fault, for not doing my research and buying a strimmer that I cant do #### to for adjustments!!! Echo is low quality chinese junk.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Huh? name a current saw or other unit with cat? A few saws in the late 90's and early 2000's for California.. mainly to get epa credits, but even those have long gone. Even cats on the backpack blowers have gone. Much more trouble and power robbing than they were worth.
The 044C was made in very limited quanties 12-15 (?) years ago, and was a problem... and dropped. I'm not sure it was ever formally released here...
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RED-85-Z51
Addicted to ArboristSite
Im assuming you have the Zama Rotary Valve carb right?
Main jet is in the center of the rotary valve, may be a plug to remove to access the screw...dealer should be able to pop it out. For idle mixture, its on the other side of the carb, there is a little recess in the plastic carb layer, you should see a little port in the carb body, may have a plug in it as well usually doesnt..
Ive found the easiest way to make adjustments on these super small screws is actually to take some wire, and cut the end straight, and smack it one good time with a hammer, effectively making a tiny flathead..
The 260 with a muff mod and carb adjustments...Holy crap!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEePijBdgJw
Another gutless echo wonder, the PB755 their most powerful blower. Watch as they have to push the sled to get it to move. This is some funny chit.LOLOLOLOL
Another gutless echo wonder, the PB755 their most powerful blower. Watch as they have to push the sled to get it to move. This is some funny chit.LOLOLOLOL
THALL10326
The Champ
Wow Red, I guess the 4-mix stuff scared me away.....LOL
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedogggie look at all them 4-mixers. I love those trimmers. I got a slew landscapers that swear by them. Got one guy who has 8 of em being used full time going on 7 years now. How many landscape trimmers live that long, only one that I know of, the mighty 4-mixer!!
BTW SAW, I was on the phone today. Got some interesting info. This is another banner year for Stihl. This past July, last month, was the best month ever in the history of Stihl. Can any other OPE manufacture say that in this economy, not likely,
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