Just Mow
Don't touch my Willie !!!
Yes it is a combination of both. I have never used the dual throttle so no opinion here.
Echo guys- what is the breakdown of their "commercial" and "consumer" lines?
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Yes it is a combination of both. I have never used the dual throttle so no opinion here.
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
True, but I still suspect it would do better with a slightly larger pipe. There will be a balance point where the advantage falls off. (think no tube)
Consider a 4" pipe versus a 5" pipe. The 4" will have 4pi of cross sectional pipe area, whereas a 5" one will have 6.25pi of area. So, a 25% increase in pipe size gives a 56% increase in cross sectional area. That's a lot of difference when you're figuring how much volume a tube can move.
True, the increase will lose a little velocity, but I suspect it will gain more than enough to offset the difference in volume moved. I would bet the reason some manufacturers don't implement the best ratio has to do with marketing, as you've alluded. People don't relate to cfm's, but they do relate to mph because they deal with this every day in their cars.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Good theory
RED-85-Z51
Addicted to ArboristSite
I think the 2 handed style gives a better balance, plus a free hand makes me spiral into an anxiety attack..:help:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ... na.. forget it...
THanks M.L. that site did in fact have Echo power ratings! I am hesitant to go with anything longer than 18", as I currently use an 18" with a 42 C.C. and it tends to bog down. I just figured 16" with a 50 C.C. would be nice in that regard, but with high end chainsaws it might be a different story altogether and 20" would be fine for any of these as in your experience.
Assuming Echo's C.S. 520 (50.1 C.C.) is at least as powerful as their C.S. 5100 (49.3 C.C.), which that site has rated at 2.85kW- that's even more than the M.S. 260, which Stihl lists at 2.4kW... on paper (I.E. I understand these ratings aren't necessarily apples-apples etc).
EPA is voluntary? Steve
My CS510 pulls a 20" bar just fine even buried in hardwood, no you can't dog in and lean on it with a good sharp chain and the rakers a little too low that would take a 90cc saw. Like I've said before I don't put much stock in published numbers. I do know that my CS510 will cut a little faster than my brothers MS260, they're real close and both nice saws with my 510 haveing a wider powerband. You'll find a night and day difference between your 42cc saw and a good 50cc saw. Didn't take long to get the Echo bashers out!! Steve
SawTroll
Information Collector
I don't believe those ratings for a second, as they are just too different from the ratings I have seen elsewhere.
I don't believe that the 67cc one has gained 1.02kW in a few years..........:monkey: :monkey:
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O.K. I'll forget about the published specs guys. I was just curious more than anything. Now what about the factory settings? If I buy a C.S. 520, it would be sealed in the box. If it's not ready to go as-is, I've read you have to mutilate some plastic over the adjustments first (and do you have to have a tach)?
Also, anyone have experience purchasing with Alamia.com?
Also, anyone have experience purchasing with Alamia.com?
That's why I don't put much stock in numbers or lack of them. What do you think of a Stihl MS260 3.2 HP vs MS290 3.8 HP ? Steve
I've had 4 new ones 2 510 and 2 440. One 510 I didn't have to touch the other would'nt even rev up, pulled the caps 1/4 turn out and it runs great. My 440 had to pull the caps and adjust, My relatives CS440 ran good with gas without ethonal, the he put 10% ethonal gas in and it got lean, pulled the caps, adjusted and it runs great. Chances are good it will need adjusting, almost for sure if you use ethonal gas. They make more torque a little rich on the high adjuster. I adjust mine so they burble some and clean up soon as I start cutting. If using a tack I'd keep the RPM's a little less than specs (EPA specs so most likely too lean) just so it cleans up when cutting. Steve
"Yes, some uquipment may seem "lean" at first, but Ive never seen any product we've sold come back with lean damage. The fact is that there is a break in period where the motor may seem less than powerful, usually after a dozens or so tanks the motor is fully broken in, compression is peaked, and its ready to work. Many people assume this is a lean condition. Echo sets all carbs at the factory on all models except the CS-670 and CS-8000, which are only available at a dealer where they unpack it and tach it out to set the engine speed."
RED-85-Z51, very good information, just a few things to add.
Just a comment on fuel quality. Keep in mind that fuel quality has changed in the past couple of years. We have found that it is necessary to custom tune just about 100 percent of the saws and other 2 stroke equipment that we work on here.
Echo saws specifically will require a small adjustment to add some fuel to keep them from going lean at WOT. It's never good to have any 2 stroke engine revving "clean" at WOT and no load. When set to "two stroke" at WOT, the rpm's should clean up as soon as the engine sees some load. We have had to re-set all of our Echo power equipment, even though it was set up at the factory, or serviced prior to being sent here.
The reed valve top handle saws are the most difficult to set, as they simply will NOT run high rpm's at no load without going lean and nearly stalling out in the cut. They need to be adjusted a bit "fat" at no load, so they cut with decent rpm/power.
The 510/520's are maxxed out with an 20" bar as mentioned, very good with an 18" bar, and absolutely KILLER with a 16" bar. Those saws are used nearly daily here, and will cut more wood per gallon of fuel than anything else we have.
One of the best things you can do with any Echo saw is remove the chain they show up with, and get a REAL chain. It's a lesson in humility to try to cut a load of wood with the factory equipped safety chains. After one or two sharpenings, they quit cutting anyhow!
The CS-440 is a decent saw with the 16" bar, OK with an 18" bar, and has it's tongue hanging out with a 20" bar. The slightly larger 510/520's cut better at every rpm and don't use any more fuel.
No experience whatsover with the 370's and 400's, although I have them on my "wish list" so we can test them.
The CS-360T we have been working with is a really nice saw, although slightly bulky, it has really came around since we removed the CAT and modded the muffler. We were told by a few on this site when we first mentioned getting one, that it will fail miserably and develope a "death rattle" in short order. I would tend to agree with that if we had left it alone as delivered. The carb was WAY too lean on that saw, and it spent all it's time on the rev limiter, and then rpm's fell WAY off in the cut as it spitted and sputtered to stay running. When reading this, keep in mind that the rev limiting module makes one think that you have a good setting on the high speed screw. It is a very difficult saw to adjust correctly, as the rev limiter comes in just about when it should be four stroking from a correct high speed carb setting. Adding fuel and opening up the exhaust has given it new life, it cuts equally as fast as any Husky or Stihl top handle saw we've had in here, just doesn't look as good!.......FWIW.....Cliff
RED-85-Z51, very good information, just a few things to add.
Just a comment on fuel quality. Keep in mind that fuel quality has changed in the past couple of years. We have found that it is necessary to custom tune just about 100 percent of the saws and other 2 stroke equipment that we work on here.
Echo saws specifically will require a small adjustment to add some fuel to keep them from going lean at WOT. It's never good to have any 2 stroke engine revving "clean" at WOT and no load. When set to "two stroke" at WOT, the rpm's should clean up as soon as the engine sees some load. We have had to re-set all of our Echo power equipment, even though it was set up at the factory, or serviced prior to being sent here.
The reed valve top handle saws are the most difficult to set, as they simply will NOT run high rpm's at no load without going lean and nearly stalling out in the cut. They need to be adjusted a bit "fat" at no load, so they cut with decent rpm/power.
The 510/520's are maxxed out with an 20" bar as mentioned, very good with an 18" bar, and absolutely KILLER with a 16" bar. Those saws are used nearly daily here, and will cut more wood per gallon of fuel than anything else we have.
One of the best things you can do with any Echo saw is remove the chain they show up with, and get a REAL chain. It's a lesson in humility to try to cut a load of wood with the factory equipped safety chains. After one or two sharpenings, they quit cutting anyhow!
The CS-440 is a decent saw with the 16" bar, OK with an 18" bar, and has it's tongue hanging out with a 20" bar. The slightly larger 510/520's cut better at every rpm and don't use any more fuel.
No experience whatsover with the 370's and 400's, although I have them on my "wish list" so we can test them.
The CS-360T we have been working with is a really nice saw, although slightly bulky, it has really came around since we removed the CAT and modded the muffler. We were told by a few on this site when we first mentioned getting one, that it will fail miserably and develope a "death rattle" in short order. I would tend to agree with that if we had left it alone as delivered. The carb was WAY too lean on that saw, and it spent all it's time on the rev limiter, and then rpm's fell WAY off in the cut as it spitted and sputtered to stay running. When reading this, keep in mind that the rev limiting module makes one think that you have a good setting on the high speed screw. It is a very difficult saw to adjust correctly, as the rev limiter comes in just about when it should be four stroking from a correct high speed carb setting. Adding fuel and opening up the exhaust has given it new life, it cuts equally as fast as any Husky or Stihl top handle saw we've had in here, just doesn't look as good!.......FWIW.....Cliff
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blackoak
Addicted to ArboristSite
Echo is low quality chinese junk.[/QUOTE]
You are wrong. Echo is a Jap company, and "junk" is way out of line. I read this entire thread and will have to say Red has conducted himself and represented the company that he works for well. I have at least 16 Stihl products. Saws, trimmers and blowers and love everyone of them. I have several Echo products and love them to. Some of you guys need to climb down from your high horse that you been riding on for several years.
You are wrong. Echo is a Jap company, and "junk" is way out of line. I read this entire thread and will have to say Red has conducted himself and represented the company that he works for well. I have at least 16 Stihl products. Saws, trimmers and blowers and love everyone of them. I have several Echo products and love them to. Some of you guys need to climb down from your high horse that you been riding on for several years.
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You are wrong[/QUOTE]
That just goes to prove what some people know or don't know. Steve
Bowtie
Gearhead
Its an opinion. Dont tell me I am wrong, Cause I am not.
blackoak
Addicted to ArboristSite
Get off your horse dude you are wrong. That my opinion. I believe I'm am right Echo is not Chinese made.
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Bowtie
Gearhead
Oh, Scuse me..."Asian made" Kioritz Corp...Google it. :monkey:
Bowtie
Gearhead
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