Efficient Home Heating

[SmokeyNY]

Thanks for the input guys.

She says she doesn't want an indoor stove because she doesn't want to mess up the wood floors, and it won't be aesthetically pleasing.

I would prefer natural gas over propane, but I am not sure if I could get it there. She still thinks that I can get an outdoor wood boiler for $1,500 used. I haven't checked into that route yet, but I am doubtful. I guess that is what I'm going to be doing this weekend.

Anyway, it moved from being only about the wood stove to all the other issues with the house last night. The bathroom needs work, but show me a house built in 1901 where indoor plumbing was an afterthought that doesn't. Its nothing outrageous, but would need work just the same. She also has a problem with the fact that it has asbestos cement siding. The siding is in decent shape, and is not easily pulverized, but because it has asbestos in it she is paranoid. I keep telling her that the house I grew up in had asbestos siding until about 10 years ago, but apparently that is different. I got so frustrated yesterday that I told her that I wasn't going to waste my time looking at any more houses. We went through the same thing with the last house that we liked. Maybe I'm being unreasonable. To give her credit she did buy me a 038 for Father's Day.

 

[sdt7618]

we changed or boiler(oil) about 4 years ago from a one that was in my view old, 15 year + to a new combi, best at time. our oil consumption nearly halved.. then I started using the indoor wood burner, it has all but halved again. Only down side is we are back to square 1 as the price of the oil has went up nearly 400% since I first moved in with the wife, some 5 years ago.

Smokey, you have about one choice with the house buying..... give here what she wants, your just going to have to fix all the stuff she don't like eventually, best to find what you can afford and can fix up with the cash you have.

or tell her to get a nice warm winter coat, cause your gonna need them in the living room!! :jawdrop:

 

[mga]

just be sure there are no laws about OWB's in that area before you run out and buy one.

ask the town first...not later!! many places are refusing new installations and have set nearly impossible codes on existing ones.

 

[Zodiac45]

we changed or boiler(oil) about 4 years ago from a one that was in my view old, 15 year + to a new combi, best at time. our oil consumption nearly halved.. then I started using the indoor wood burner, it has all but halved again. Only down side is we are back to square 1 as the price of the oil has went up nearly 400% since I first moved in with the wife, some 5 years ago.

Smokey, you have about one choice with the house buying..... give here what she wants, your just going to have to fix all the stuff she don't like eventually, best to find what you can afford and can fix up with the cash you have.

or tell her to get a nice warm winter coat, cause your gonna need them in the living room!! :jawdrop:

+1 yep that's the problem! Everytime you make a change and half your usuage, the price doubles so you're right back too square one! It was same for me. I was on a "budget" plan with a capped price. Going back 3 yrs. each year my actual usuage was half of the year before, but my monthly payment is miraculously the same! Sheesh!

 

[tatra805]

@ treeco: check out Viessmann their specs.
I know these more than 100% things are calculated values in comparison with the conventional systems but still you are at 115. No typo, just the way of looking at it. (and here all manufacturers do it that way)

Agree with you all, right back to square 1, but that has always been the case. Point is how much did you spend on the way getting there?

min investement, maximum return etc etc etc

 

[ziggy2b]

try this

Good Morning,
Try this site([email protected]) This is one of the cheapest ways to heat a home I've seen in a long time... I believe it will save alot of money on wood and insurance on a home.. Hope I could help!!!
thx----------------------------------------------Ziggy2b

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Here is the situation. My wife and I are looking at buying our first home. One of the candidates is a 1200 square foot 2 story home in Silver Springs NY. Currently the house is heated with fuel oil. As I am tired of being raped on petroleum products every day, I would prefer to heat with wood. The house has two existing masonry chimneys (have not yet been inspected). The fuel oil furnace exhausts through one in an odd configuration. The second chimeny starts on the second floor. Based off of the holes in the floor the wood stove was in the kitchen right in front of the bathroom door and the stove pipe ran through the ceiling, into the master bedroom next to the door and then connected to the chimney.

I believe that I have a few options.
1. Run a wood stove in the kitchen the way it was done originally however, this would make for some tight clearances as well as some fire resistance issues in the floor/ceiling penetrations. I already have an Upland stove that I could use.

2. Tear out the existing furnace and use the masonry chimeny on that side of the house. My problems here are that the chimney may not be suitable for a wood stove. Also depending on the loan I get I may need to have a primary heat source other than wood. Of course this would not hold true in reality.

3. Outdoor wood boiler. My wife does not want a woodstove in the house so this is the next option. I have plenty of room on the lot for one, but I am not sure if I can afford one now. Also wood is not falling from the sky, and I am worried about what I have read about it being a fuel hog.

4. I have also thought about removing the fuel oil, installing propane and then using the wood stove through the side chimeny, but would rather do that as a last resort.

My questions are:
1. Approximately how much does a OWB cost with installation?
2. For those who have one, about how much wood do you burn, and do you use it year round?
3. Any suggestions or recommendations for my situation.

First I wouldn't go with a OWB. I have used a Wood /Oil Combination for years. I now just burn wood with it, no oil. You will have oil as backup heat, if both you and your wife work out. My biggest blocks I split the dementions that they just go inside the door. I cut them at 12" lengths. This type of furnace is very efficent in heating your home. The OWBs are not as efficent as the Oil/Wood Combination Furnaces are.
I keep the fire going steady all day long, because I'm hear most of the day, because I also work out of a shop, as well out of my barn. Last winter I burned a little over 20 Bush Cords (80 Face Cords) with my furnace.
If i was going to heat with wood, I would go this way. Have a section in your basement to pile your wood nicley in the fall, mid October, and your mess is in the basement. Not through out the hose like you would with a wood stove.
My opinion any way. Hope thhis helps. Bruce.

 

[woodguy105]

My first house was a 1940- 900 sq.ft. 2 story with terrible insulation. I replaced the windows first and then a short time later bought a Lopi Answer. It is a beautiful stove the wife loves it, you can watch the fire and get toasty.. I burned about 4 + cords a year (in Rhode Island). The only time the furnace kicked in was sometimes early in the morning or when I was working early am until late. Windows add future value for resale and save money every year.

Wood stoves that heat with convection (Lopi -convection air passing around the stove) have very low clearances from side and rear. I have since moved to a larger older just as drafty 2,300 sq. ft. farm house in NW Ct. My wife and I use the same stove for primary heat. We have an oil fired air furnace last year we spent about $600 on oil and that included heating hot waterall year. Now we're going through about-7 cords approx.-We do have a wood burning cook stove and an old Nashua in the parlor that kicks ass and gobbles wood.

One thing I noticed in our "new house" the stove pipe is straight up through the roof and has great draft ( no 90 degree angle).The stove is much more efficient, especially overnight.


Good luck with the new house!

 

[Hugenpoet]

+1 yep that's the problem! Everytime you make a change and half your usuage, the price doubles so you're right back too square one! It was same for me. I was on a "budget" plan with a capped price. Going back 3 yrs. each year my actual usuage was half of the year before, but my monthly payment is miraculously the same! Sheesh!

It may seem very frustrating to make all these improvements and do a lot of extra work just to stay "even", however we all know we would be spending $$$$ more if we did nothing but pay the fuel bill every month.

I expect to save about $4,000 this winter, while still paying the same total amount for fuel oil as I did 3 years ago. Hey, 4 grand in my pocket is better than 4 grand in Saudi Arabia.

 

[tatra805]

just a real example, freshly based on our yearly gas consumption calculation that came in...

House1:
i come from belgium where isolated houses are still rare if older than 10years. (nowadays more common) We used to build with a double brick wall separated by airspace. (which they fill with isolation now) Wall thickness: 10cm brick+10cm air+20cm brick

Heated by new conventional gas burner attached to radiators, thermostatic valves, hot water heating included in secondary circuit.

100m2 build surface 2 floor, 10cm rockwool roofisolation.

AVG outside temp winter: +12 celcius

Heating cost monthly (on 12 months): 75 euro = 0.75euro/m2

Cost isolation/heating installation monthly over 30 years: 13.8 euro = 0.138 euro/m2 (investment 5000 euro)

Total cost: 88.8 euro or 0.888euro/m2


House2:
Thermobricks 42cm, 10cm styrofoam isolation on the outside. 2 floor.

Heated by new condensation gas burner attached to radiators, thermostatic valves, hot water heating included in secondary circuit.

200m2 build surface, 25cm rockwool roofisolation.

AVG outside temp winter: -5 celcius

Heating cost monthly (on 12 months): 65 euro or 0.325 euro/m2

Cost isolation/heating installation monthly over 30 years: 64 euro or 0.32 euro/m2 (investment 23333 euro)

Total cost: 129 euro or 0.645 euro/m2


House3:

Massive clay-rock walls 75cm thickness, 1floor

Heated by individual gas radiators, hot water heating electrical

100m2 build surface, no roofisolation.

AVG outside temp winter: -5 celcius

Heating cost monthly (on 12 months): 270 euro or 2.7 euro/m2

Cost isolation/heating installation monthly over 30 years: 0 euro = 0 euro/m2

Total cost: 270 euro or 2.7 euro/m2


Maybe it helps to get an idea of the impact of isolation on heating costs.

We thought house 1 was quite well equiped compared to the 'neighbours'.

We lived in house 3 wondering how legendary these legendary walls were going to be.

We build house 2 by standard of taking 1 size more than the 'neighbours'


note that house 1 is even less efficient as i did not simulate costs if avg temp would also be -5 instead of +12.


Add to your investment in house 2 the costs involved with bankloans and you will still come out cheaper than house 1.

 

[secureland]

Smokey,

I'm just south of you in Alfred Station.

My advice is this.....

Remember that Allegany County has a tremedous amount of hardwood!

1,200 sq. ft could be heated very easily with a small stove.

Run a classified ad on 790AM Hotline (585-593-6070 from 9:00-9:30 AM every weekday morning) looking for a woodstove with no cracks, some stovepipe, and some firewood. You'll be surprised at the response you'll get.

Buy the firewood cut, I recently saw firewood in Wellsville selling for $35 a face cord (that's right 35, my dad was selling it for 30 in 1972). For under 1k you should be able to install a stove, buy the wood and save the $5/gallon of fuel oil.

Make sure you're chimney is installed for a good draft.

And last but not least, Don't worry about the Lady if she can't take a joke. Remember the best way to convince her that it's a good idea is to suggest what you could with the resulting savings (treat her right)

Bill

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Smokey,

I'm just south of you in Alfred Station.

My advice is this.....

Remember that Allegany County has a tremendous amount of hardwood!

1,200 sq. ft could be heated very easily with a small stove.

Run a classified ad on 790AM Hotline (585-593-6070 from 9:00-9:30 AM every weekday morning) looking for a wood stove with no cracks, some stovepipe, and some firewood. You'll be surprised at the response you'll get.

Buy the firewood cut, I recently saw firewood in Wellsville selling for $35 a face cord (that's right 35, my dad was selling it for 30 in 1972). For under 1k you should be able to install a stove, buy the wood and save the $5/gallon of fuel oil.

Make sure you're chimney is installed for a good draft.

And last but not least, Don't worry about the Lady if she can't take a joke. Remember the best way to convince her that it's a good idea is to suggest what you could with the resulting savings (treat her right)

Bill

$35.00 a face cord! Same is in 1972! These people must not need the Money, or are Retired, and desperate for something to do. With today's prices for Gas, Oil, and Chain Saws, and the cost to deliver, or do they deliver for that price? They are loosing money big time. Bruce.

 

[logbutcher]

Before you go all crazy listening to us here, get a full house Energy Audit. The cost runs from free, subsidized by the state, to +/- $350. It's worth the $$ to literally "see" where the house needs insulating: walls, roof, windows, doors, foundation, etc... The "pictures" of the leaks actually show you where to put the insulating and the money. Do that before putting an offer on any place. Most of the work can be done DIY.

Then, after looking at the payback and the real cost of having an energy efficient home, you can go crazy with the "which wood stove and chimney system" to get. BTW: your neighbors may not like an OWB next to them. The OWB's on the market now are notoriously inefficient.

As a start to wood heating, get a small stove for that kitchen ( Jotul 602)that will just heat a small area that you spend time in. For the first winter, think about closing off part of the house that you don't lreally need to live in or heat, such as extra bedrooms, or an attic. Most northern New england homes had "summer kitchens" and "winter kitchens". Then again, there was either no plumbing to heat, or the pipes ran on outside walls....so they were drained for the winter.
And tell the "little lady" ( what's with that ? :censored: ) that you can keep the house clean with wood...it's all in technique. We have 2 stoves heating 24/7 for 100% of the heat.

 

[secureland]

$35.00 a face cord! Same is in 1972! These people must not need the Money, or are Retired, and desperate for something to do. With today's prices for Gas, Oil, and Chain Saws, and the cost to deliver, or do they deliver for that price? They are loosing money big time. Bruce.

Bruce,
It's true. If you turn over some rocks you'll find $35 face cords.

I should take a picture of the sign I saw the other day on a truck. I stopped to ask and it wasn't false advertising..... $35 a face cord you pick up.

This evening I picked up the local penny-saver classified and found a face cord for $45 delivered!

There's such an abudancy of hardwood here and we're in one of the poorest areas of NY state, that many sell low.

There are folks who buy and resell the firewood that is offered this cheap.

 

[SmokeyNY]

Thanks for all the input.
As of now we are on hold for awhile. We decided to wait and save up some more money so that we are not completely tapped out.

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Bruce,
It's true. If you turn over some rocks you'll find $35 face cords.

I should take a picture of the sign I saw the other day on a truck. I stopped to ask and it wasn't false advertising..... $35 a face cord you pick up.

This evening I picked up the local penny-saver classified and found a face cord for $45 delivered!

There's such an abudancy of hardwood here and we're in one of the poorest areas of NY state, that many sell low.

There are folks who buy and resell the firewood that is offered this cheap.

Now that what I call Making easy Money, off the sweat of other peoples backs, Buying cheap, and jacking up the price for a profit. Bruce.

 

[MJR]

Buy a piece of land with some decent trees on it. Then get a small band mill. Build your own house together. You will be too tired to argue. There is no perfect…Good luck.

 

[Hansson]

Tarm makes a good unit along with others. Here's a link
http://www.woodboilers.com/wood-gasification.asp

I have a Tarm indoor boiler and are very happy whit it.
The gas and oil are only going up so wood is future proof
look at the beauty
http://picasaweb.google.se/725hansson/Panrumsbilder/photo#5074780784929404274