Electric/gas 37 ton Northern

[rx7145]

dumb question here....

did you run splitter stock first before adding all the extra fittings/pump etc? if so... did splitter overheat without any mods done?

Good question. When I first got the splitter before I put oil in it I installed the tee fitting in the suction line. I also installed the check valves. Then I filled the oil and started the engine for the first time. After I found out that the splitter was running hot I changed the high pressure lines back to stock useing all of the Northern fittings. The suction lines/fitting have never been stock. That is why I'm thinking they must be the problem.

usually factory will not honor warranty, once they find out splitter has been extensively modded.

True, All the "stuff" I installed is bolted on and nothing factory was cut. If they found out they might say I caused it and if I did I will accept responsibilty for what I did. As of now I don't see what I have done to cause this problem.

totally agree with comments about Northern selling splitter with no fluids installed (including engine). this opens Northerns to potential problems if wrong fluid is used and/or not installed correctly.

I wish fluid was included also. But I used the fluid recomended in the manual.

my 35ton Speeco came with all fluids installed ready to run. I've had zero issues....

Ok rub it in.

 

[rx7145]

For all intents and purposses you could run 30 wt motor oil and it should not get hot.Most likely not a grand plan though.

Ya know,it's about as hard to diagnose hydraulic problems over the internet as it is to suggest a fix for a chainsaw.

True. Just keep giving me ideas/things to try and I'll figure it out,.

 

[rx7145]

RX,
Well yeah, it did look like an NBC pump – I guess it’s a small world.
And I certainly won’t dispute that $1900 isn’t pocket change!
Removing the strainer if you only have a 3/4” suction port is a good idea. Most hydraulic systems don’t use any intake strainer so as not to restrict it, but they are common on log splitters because of all the potential contamination. I would remove it – the suction port should be at least 1”, and have a 1” hose to the pump. However, if the pump isn’t whining, it may not make a difference. (The whining is louder when the pressure goes up.)
If the oil is getting hot just circulating through the valve, then I would have to agree with some of the others who suspect a flow blockage somewhere. If you can find such a blockage, you may solve the problem all at once. If there isn’t an actual blockage, then you probably won’t be able to just make one change and make it cooler. It may require several changes, where each helps a little. . I encourage you again to get a pressure gauge.
I think someone is getting mixed up about ATF and temperature. It’s usually recommended for cold weather, and not hot weather. That comes from tech people giving advice based on what they have heard, rather than from experience.
It’s true that some systems use ATF year-round and that is fine, but if you’re having overheating problems, changing oil is one thing to try.

Your problem, and persistent questions, have sure provoked a lot of response and ideas, which I think is really great – it gets us all thinking. Which is what this site is all about.

[email protected]

So sounds like you are saying I should not reuse the 3/4 fittings. If I remove the strainer I could upgrade to 1in suction fittings. Would cost more but I might need to. Here is a picture of the suction lines/fittings.

 

[drmiller100]

if you want to reduce the problem, buy a 1 inch nipple, 1 inch T, and a 3/4 by 1 inch reducer.

then swap out the 3/4 T to the one inch T. Will help restriction issues, but won't help your problems I bet.
for sure the 3/4 T will have more restriction then the original setup.

 

[drmiller100]

i find it kind of lame that you are calling the northern tool tech support adn making them solve your problems.

you modified the splitter. that means you should take responsibility for figuring out the problems.

your lame phone calls to tech support mean the rest of us pay more for our products.

 

[046]

rx... I would change anything further!

first step in trouble shooting is to isolate the issue. this mean you should disconnect ALL non-stock fittings etc.

in other words return splitter back to stock configuration. Then see if unit quits overheating. my guess is once splitter is returned to stock configuration. your overheat problems will go away.

assuming that's the case, then T your secondary system in to see what happens.

you are the only person that's ever posted any issues with northern splitters.

Originally Posted by 046 View Post
dumb question here....

did you run splitter stock first before adding all the extra fittings/pump etc? if so... did splitter overheat without any mods done?

Good question. When I first got the splitter before I put oil in it I installed the tee fitting in the suction line. I also installed the check valves. Then I filled the oil and started the engine for the first time. After I found out that the splitter was running hot I changed the high pressure lines back to stock useing all of the Northern fittings. The suction lines/fitting have never been stock. That is why I'm thinking they must be the problem.
-----------

So sounds like you are saying I should not reuse the 3/4 fittings. If I remove the strainer I could upgrade to 1in suction fittings. Would cost more but I might need to. Here is a picture of the suction lines/fittings.

 

[rx7145]

i find it kind of lame that you are calling the northern tool tech support adn making them solve your problems.

you modified the splitter. that means you should take responsibility for figuring out the problems.

your lame phone calls to tech support mean the rest of us pay more for our products.

The one and only time I called Northern was because the auto return kickout broke. When I called, I asked what the "normal" temp of the splitter should be. After asking about what kind of oil I had and what not she wanted me to take it in to a Northern tool repair center. I have not taken the splitter to be checked out because I was not 110% sure that I had caused the problem. I also never ran the splitter above 180f to pervent the seals from being damaged.

 

[rx7145]

rx... I would change anything further!

first step in trouble shooting is to isolate the issue. this mean you should disconnect ALL non-stock fittings etc.

in other words return splitter back to stock configuration. Then see if unit quits overheating. my guess is once splitter is returned to stock configuration. your overheat problems will go away.

assuming that's the case, then T your secondary system in to see what happens.

you are the only person that's ever posted any issues with northern splitters.

That is what I'm going to do. Also going to look at the in tank strainer to see if that is plugged.

 

[Al Smith]

your lame phone calls to tech support mean the rest of us pay more for our products.

Well now,that certainly is a spark of brilliance on your part.

Just what pray tell does this mans phone calls have anything thing to do with the price of goods you purchase.Kindly explain that one .

 

[CylinderService]

Yes, remove the small suction strainer. Install the largest suction fittings you can. Make sure your tee is 1" too. Suction lines should not be restricted.
I agree with the other guys about trying it in the factory configuration to see if it overheats

[email protected]

 

[drmiller100]

The one and only time I called Northern was because the auto return kickout broke. When I called, I asked what the "normal" temp of the splitter should be. After asking about what kind of oil I had and what not she wanted me to take it in to a Northern tool repair center. I have not taken the splitter to be checked out because I was not 110% sure that I had caused the problem. I also never ran the splitter above 180f to pervent the seals from being damaged.

my apologies. i was under the incorrect impression you were expecting northern to solve the issues.
sorry.

 

[rx7145]

Update

Well I removed the 3/4 inch strainer and all other 3/4 inch suction fittings and installed a 1.5 inch to 1 inch bushing and 1inch suction fittings. NO DIFFERENCE. I then bypassed the check valves and ran the hose from the pump right to the valve. Still got hot but took much longer. (about 45min)

Cylinder Service is right (I know he always was). There is not one thing that is making the oil get hot but many things together that are.

So the check valves got to go ($137 down the drain). Now I'm thinking about putting quick disconnects on both pumps and switching back and forth. I have some 3/4 inch quick disconnects that I think would work. Would these also cause a heat problem? I don't know the flow but 3/4 would seem to be enough. The part number is 6602-12-12.

Edit: The quick disconnects are rated at 28gpm.

Also Drmiller said that pressure on the pump would be ok(?) I would think that it would turn into a hyd motor but as you can tell I know little about Hydraulics.

 

[CylinderService]

Quick couplers instead of check valves

Those are large quick couplers, but they may restrict the flow almost as much as the check valves - quick couplers are notorious for making heat. I agree with you however, that pressure against the outlet of the pump may well make it turn backwards.
Have you considered putting a cooler (radiator) in the return line? There's not much pressure there so you might be able to find an oil cooler from a car or truck to plumb in your line. (Factory heat exchangers with fans are expensive.) You'll have to provide air flow through it and a shroud to make the air go through rather than around. If you did that I think you'd be surprised what a difference it would make. Just a thought.

[email protected]

 

[rx7145]

Well I did think of adding a cooler but I didn't want to just to mask the problem. It looks like the heat issue is not going away so I'm going to look into a cooler set up. The only problem I see is, how to run the fan with the gas engine. With the electric engine it would be easy might have a 1.5 hour limit with the gas engine. Thanks for your help.

Off to ebay to look for coolers.....

 

[046]

back to the dumb question again...

did you unhook everything and run splitter in stock configuration? and did that solve your overheating problem?

 

[rx7145]

back to the dumb question again...

did you unhook everything and run splitter in stock configuration? and did that solve your overheating problem?

I did not install the stock 3/4 plastic suction fitting. I up sized to 1 inch with no strainer. Does not get hot as fast but still in a hour it was to hot to touch. I'll run it some more this weekend and see how it does.

 

[046]

seems you need to fix stock configuration before moving on...

I can run my 35 ton speeco for hours on end without overheating (split a cord today). yours should be able to do the same.

factory techs cannot trouble shoot with non stock parts added. but should be able to pinpoint troubles in stock mode.

if splitter will not run properly in stock mode. something is wrong with one of the original parts and/or something is plugged.

don't add any more variables, until you fix base configuration first. factory techs should be able to nail down pretty quickly.

I did not install the stock 3/4 plastic suction fitting. I up sized to 1 inch with no strainer. Does not get hot as fast but still in a hour it was to hot to touch. I'll run it some more this weekend and see how it does.

 

[Mike Van]

So what finally happened here? Read this whole thread, there's no...........finish? ending? whatever........

 

[rx7145]

Sorry, I'm still working on it. I think I know what it was but don't want to say untill I am sure of all that facts. I will say this though, I'm planing on making the splitter 95% back to stock (not installing the suction strainer) and using the pump motor for another splitter.

I'm also thinking of using ball valves and not check valves. Just need to spend more money.

 

[reaperman]

That is what I'm going to do. Also going to look at the in tank strainer to see if that is plugged.

Interesting, I havent followed the thread from the beginning in Oct, just picked up on it today. I purchased a NT 22 ton splitter back in Oct as well. I had troubles from the start. I bought the splitter and took it home to assemble. I had the splitter all assembled and noticed the hydro filter and housing unit were missing from the crate. I was kind of pi$$ed after spending my afternoon putting it together and was looking forward to playing with my new toy. I called NT, it was a Sunday, and they were closing in about a hour and told them the situation. They said come in and they will provide me with missing parts. It was then when I took the filler cap for the hydro tank off, by chance, and noticed some PAPER, inside of the tank!! WTF, I thought! I took a little "grabber" I have and reached down in the tank and pulled out a sheet of paper 3/4 the size of a normal piece of printer paper. It had all kinds of Chinese writing all over it, like some kind of Chinese newspaper or something. My first thought was what if I hadn't noticed the paper and filled er up with fluid and started the unit. It most likely would have plugged up something and fast. So I put the paper back in the tank and hauled the splitter back to NT. I told them I wanted another splitter because I wasnt sure if there was any more paper inside of the tank that couldnt be seen. Especially in a baffled tank. The guy questioned the Chinese paper in the tank, saying the units are made right here in good 'ol Minnesota. I said they may be assembled here, but the metric bolts say they are shipped in. So I pulled out my grabber and fished around the tank and pulled out some torn paper with the Chinese lingo. He changed his tune and gave me a different splitter.

I got that splitter home but it was too dark by than to use it. After work I the next day I tried it out. It worked at first, but after about 3 splits the ram was getting slower and the detent would't kick out. I could tell the lever wasnt moving forward enough, thus making the ram run slow. Also there was some kind of thick greyish oil coming from the control valve unit. The first thing that entered my mind was there was more of this Chinese paper in the hydro tank and it ran through and plugged the control lever unit. I called NT right away and said I wanted another new splitter. The guy on the phone said they would fix it. I said BS, if you dont get me a different splitter I will simply return it for a full refund and than go back on the floor and buy another one. And I told him he better give me a set of the 4-way wedges for all of my troubles. I took the splitter in the next day and picked up another one along with my free 4-ways. He said the paper in the tank of the first splitter was some kind of label thats on the tanks when they are shipped to the US.

The unit I have how works great, and I'm happy with it. But I just wonder if your unit had some paper in as well and may have have plugged something up as well. Kind of funny your control went out as well. Good luck