Ethanol Free Gas?

[JRM]

Leaded gas isn’t the devil. Heck, if I remember correctly there was a time when that’s all we used in everything. But the govt has done a bang-up job of protecting us from developmental issues.

1970s autism rate:1/2000
Todays autism rate: 1/50

A little more context is needed. In the 1970's autism was not being tested for unless there was a debilitating problem. It was not well understood. Also, many subtypes have been identified in the last 20ish years.

 

[ihookem]

Leaded gas isn’t the devil. Heck, if I remember correctly there was a time when that’s all we used in everything. But the govt has done a bang-up job of protecting us from developmental issues.

1970s autism rate:1/2000
Todays autism rate: 1/50

That may be true. However, very few went to the doctor to see what was wrong with their kid back then. They were just considered goofy. I am quite sure I am somewhat dislexic but mostly with numbers , but sometimes with letters. Never got tested though.

 

[dennish]

No ethanol free gas here in Nor Cal.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

If it’s not from it’s own dedicated nozzle, pump a few gallons into the car before pumping it into your gas can.

I was told that it can't be advertised as ethanol free unless it has it's own nozzle..

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

I make a pretty good living off E10 - rebuilding and replacing carburetors & fuel lines on everything. I probably do 100 per year, and I operate off word-of-mouth. I'm just a one man show in a tiny shop with zero advertising. I've got a walk behind Toro zero turn mower here right now that the owner drained the fuel out of last year - looking in the tank with a flashlight, I can see balls of water in what little remnants of fuel are at the bottom of the tank. Never fails!

Anyone who doesn't have fuel problems with carbureted equipment today, consider yourself lucky!

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

I go to the Sunoco in Keene on Winchester St for E-0 when I have other business up there. Going today.

Thanks for the heads-up on that. Keene is closer than any of the other places I had been going. I'd normally load up my barrel if I had to pick up or deliver a car up to ME or northern NH, and get it up there, but I went up on my hauling prices so much that I haven't been sent up that way in a long time. I'll probably have to make a dedicated E0 run at some point soon.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Lead does not foul a two stroke much if at all.
It is terrible for your health, even when used outside in a chainsaw.

If you run one long enough and hard enough, it will.

If the stuff was that unhealthy, we'd all be dead, since every single car ran it when we were kids. And everyone at every single airport in the country would be too, since it's still run there on a daily basis. Airport crews breathe the stuff in day in and day out for their entire careers. Pilots do too, by default. At least piston aircraft pilots and crews.

 

[bwalker]

If you run one long enough and hard enough, it will.

If the stuff was that unhealthy, we'd all be dead, since every single car ran it when we were kids. And everyone at every single airport in the country would be too, since it's still run there on a daily basis. Airport crews breathe the stuff in day in and day out for their entire careers. Pilots do too, by default. At least piston aircraft pilots and crews.

Well, I've ran plenty of leaded fuel over the years.
I sold it last fall, but the previous three summers I ran 150 gallons of 100LL through my street legal stroker big bore Banshee. No deposit issues at tear down.
It's a fact that IQ test results increased accross the board with the banning of lead motor gas.
There is no amount of lead that doesn't have an effect on your body. You want to lower your cognitive ability, have at it.

 

[Mad Professor]

All I need. Since prices went up its 5. Plus this VP oil.

Check your options on e-free stations online at puregas.com https://www.pure-gas.org/

View attachment 984515View attachment 984518

Ethanol is NOT the problem with modern fuels. It is just alcohol. The other chemicals in the fuel IS THE ISSUE. Ethanol is just a simple easy target. Look into the content of fuel. I’ll post chemical breakdown graphs if any one wants to offer a counterpoint. Ethanol is not what kills our mini carbs. PERIOD.

It's not any health issues I'm worried about. Running anything outdoors isn't going to be that big of a factor on my health (I have asthma, too). The main concern is lead fouling of the exhaust port, piston crown, transfer ports, and spark plug. Additional maintenance I don't want to deal with when I can just travel a few extra miles and get lead-free E0. You can run TCP to avoid the lead fouling issues, but that stuff is $70 a quart last I checked. It goes a long way, but still - E0 is cheaper, AND has none of those issues. I can keep E0 in decent condition for over 3 years in my air tight barrel.

Yeah Stuart's premium is where I get E0 when I'm in NY. I didn't know they were in VT, though! I appreciate the info on that! Good to know.

I've been running 100LL for ~20 years now and no issues with lead deposits.

 

[Mad Professor]

Ethanol is NOT the problem with modern fuels. It is just alcohol. The other chemicals in the fuel IS THE ISSUE. Ethanol is just a simple easy target. Look into the content of fuel. I’ll post chemical breakdown graphs if any one wants to offer a counterpoint. Ethanol is not what kills our mini carbs. PERIOD.

I'll call BS on that!

Alcohols will react with aluminum and magnesium to form alkoxides, which when comes into contact with water form metal hydroxides.

Alcohols facilitate the absorption of water into hydrocarbon fuels which normally phase separate from water almost entirely. When alcohol containing hydrocarbon fuels absorb enough water, a very large aqueous phase separates consisting of water and alcohol. When a engine ingests this aqueous phase it will contain virtually zero mix oil.

As far as what is in fuels, I've taught Instrumental Analysis, and in one experiment students had to determine the components of various fuels (auto gasolines, aviation fuel red and blue eg 80LL and 100LL, Jet A , diesel, home heating oil) and the percentages of each component. This was done using gas chromatography to separate the components and mass spectroscopy to identify them.

Edit: one more thing, when the E10 phase separates, given enough time, bacteria will grow in it consuming the ethanol.

 

[mbrick]

No ethanol free gas here in Nor Cal.

Depends how you define NorCal.
There are stations in Shasta County.
Hard to find in the bay area.

 

[dboyd351]

Depends how you define NorCal.
There are stations in Shasta County.
Hard to find in the bay area.

got that right
Some people call San Francisco NorCal but it is a long long way from there to Oregon

 

[mudrat2]

It is simple to test for ethanol. Here is how the pilots can do it:

Recently a member of the Aviation Fuel Club, Gilbert Pierce of Germantown, Tenn., sent us the description of how he tests for ethanol using a few drops of ordinary food coloring:

“While driving 20 miles into Mississippi to get ethanol-free gasoline for my airplane I was contemplating what must be in the blue dye that is in the Quick Check Solution kit. It occurred to me that what ever it was had to be water soluble so it would mix with the ethanol. I always check the suppliers of ethanol-free fuel before pumping any gas as I have been lied to about it. Anyway, the test kit that you add water to is a hassle and takes a few minutes to settle out. The blue Fuel-Check works great but is expensive. When I got home I got my wife’s red, blue and green food coloring out; it’s water soluble. A quick check with pint jars of ethanol-free fuel and adulterated fuel indicated that a drop of any color food coloring will dissolve and turn the adulterated fuel the same color as the food coloring. Putting a drop of food coloring in pure gasoline, the drop just goes to the bottom of the sample and rolls around there as little globules. Now I just carry a bottle of inexpensive and readily obtainable food coloring and a quart glass jar – it’s easier to get a fuel sample into – and have an instant indication of ethanol free fuel or adulterated fuel.”

Remember, always test every batch of gasoline purchased at any location other than an airport — “Let the buyer beware” !

 

[mbrick]

Mudrat, I will give this test a try!

 

[MikeRock]

I'll call BS on that!

Alcohols will react with aluminum and magnesium to form alkoxides, which when comes into contact with water form metal hydroxides.

Alcohols facilitate the absorption of water into hydrocarbon fuels which normally phase separate from water almost entirely. When alcohol containing hydrocarbon fuels absorb enough water, a very large aqueous phase separates consisting of water and alcohol. When a engine ingests this aqueous phase it will contain virtually zero mix oil.

As far as what is in fuels, I've taught Instrumental Analysis, and in one experiment students had to determine the components of various fuels (auto gasolines, aviation fuel red and blue eg 80LL and 100LL, Jet A , diesel, home heating oil) and the percentages of each component. This was done using gas chromatography to separate the components and mass spectroscopy to identify them.

Edit: one more thing, when the E10 phase separates, given enough time, bacteria will grow in it consuming the ethanol.

Thank YOU!! Metallurgical engineer here......you are so right.

 

[Mad Professor]

It is simple to test for ethanol. Here is how the pilots can do it:

Recently a member of the Aviation Fuel Club, Gilbert Pierce of Germantown, Tenn., sent us the description of how he tests for ethanol using a few drops of ordinary food coloring:

“While driving 20 miles into Mississippi to get ethanol-free gasoline for my airplane I was contemplating what must be in the blue dye that is in the Quick Check Solution kit. It occurred to me that what ever it was had to be water soluble so it would mix with the ethanol. I always check the suppliers of ethanol-free fuel before pumping any gas as I have been lied to about it. Anyway, the test kit that you add water to is a hassle and takes a few minutes to settle out. The blue Fuel-Check works great but is expensive. When I got home I got my wife’s red, blue and green food coloring out; it’s water soluble. A quick check with pint jars of ethanol-free fuel and adulterated fuel indicated that a drop of any color food coloring will dissolve and turn the adulterated fuel the same color as the food coloring. Putting a drop of food coloring in pure gasoline, the drop just goes to the bottom of the sample and rolls around there as little globules. Now I just carry a bottle of inexpensive and readily obtainable food coloring and a quart glass jar – it’s easier to get a fuel sample into – and have an instant indication of ethanol free fuel or adulterated fuel.”

Remember, always test every batch of gasoline purchased at any location other than an airport — “Let the buyer beware” !

Water soluble food coloring don't like hydrocarbons/pure fuel. The ethanol in corn fuel allows it to dissolve in the non-polar hydrocarbon mixture.

An analogy would be in the days before E10. Water would separate from the fuel, and in winter that layer would freeze. A small amount of alcohol/dry gas would prevent the separated layer from freezing, add enough dry gas and the water layer would dissolve and pass through the fuel system.

If you run fresh E10 in your car/truck you don't need to add dry gas in the winter, but if you run pure gas you should whenever it gets very cold.

As a youngster, I've been in friends cars/trucks in below zero oF weather when the car died just like it was out of gas............

 

[Mad Professor]

Thank YOU!! Metallurgical engineer here......you are so right.

Chemist/Biochemist, but I've studied organo-metallic chemistry too.......

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

It is simple to test for ethanol. Here is how the pilots can do it:

Recently a member of the Aviation Fuel Club, Gilbert Pierce of Germantown, Tenn., sent us the description of how he tests for ethanol using a few drops of ordinary food coloring:

“While driving 20 miles into Mississippi to get ethanol-free gasoline for my airplane I was contemplating what must be in the blue dye that is in the Quick Check Solution kit. It occurred to me that what ever it was had to be water soluble so it would mix with the ethanol. I always check the suppliers of ethanol-free fuel before pumping any gas as I have been lied to about it. Anyway, the test kit that you add water to is a hassle and takes a few minutes to settle out. The blue Fuel-Check works great but is expensive. When I got home I got my wife’s red, blue and green food coloring out; it’s water soluble. A quick check with pint jars of ethanol-free fuel and adulterated fuel indicated that a drop of any color food coloring will dissolve and turn the adulterated fuel the same color as the food coloring. Putting a drop of food coloring in pure gasoline, the drop just goes to the bottom of the sample and rolls around there as little globules. Now I just carry a bottle of inexpensive and readily obtainable food coloring and a quart glass jar – it’s easier to get a fuel sample into – and have an instant indication of ethanol free fuel or adulterated fuel.”

Remember, always test every batch of gasoline purchased at any location other than an airport — “Let the buyer beware” !

I just tried that. Amazed. I let set then stirred it too. You could see the e-gas starting to dissolve it. The e-free stayed as beads.

Thanks for this quicker test tip.

 

[Thompson20398]

Leaded gas isn’t the devil. Heck, if I remember correctly there was a time when that’s all we used in everything. But the govt has done a bang-up job of protecting us from developmental issues.

1970s autism rate:1/2000
Todays autism rate: 1/50

Actually leaded gas and lead in general was/is absolutely the devil. It causes developmental delays, lowered IQ, causes heart and kidney issues and brain damage. Banning it in paint and gas has definitely made a positive impact on the health and well being of the population. Especially children.
As for your autism "facts"... Rates of autism are increasing dramatically because of increased awareness and screening, better access to healthcare and broadened diagnostic criteria.
Please take a few minutes to read this. It is a good resource to help you understand autism. https://www.medicinenet.com/why_is_autism_increasing_dramatically/article.htm

 

[bwalker]

Actually leaded gas and lead in general was/is absolutely the devil. It causes developmental delays, lowered IQ, causes heart and kidney issues and brain damage. Banning it in paint and gas has definitely made a positive impact on the health and well being of the population. Especially children.
As for your autism "facts"... Rates of autism are increasing dramatically because of increased awareness and screening, better access to healthcare and broadened diagnostic criteria.
Please take a few minutes to read this. It is a good resource to help you understand autism. https://www.medicinenet.com/why_is_autism_increasing_dramatically/article.htm

Spot on.