Ethanol Free gas

[Hermio]

Thanks for reminding me to update Puregas for the ONLY place that sells 87 E0 in the area - or I'd say region. There are a bunch of forest / remote folk who bite the bit to only get E0 premium at its premium price. If you don't need the octane its a complete waste. Unfortunately the fuel depot is out of the normal way.

I run E0 regular in the generator (used daily in the winter), the log splitter and ATV. I tried a tankful in the pickup and , yes, I monitored the results. I gained fuel mileage but it was a break even for E10 when all was said and done at a $0.30 increase for regular E0. I won't get into the political side but if the fuel stop was closer I'd use nothing but their stuff.

The E0 available in my area is 30 miles away and they charge over $5/gallon. Definitely not worth it for use in my cars or anything else used frequently. But if I am going near there anyway, I try to buy at least 5 gallons for use in my saw, UTV and ZTR, though all are rated to run on E10. But for some strange reason, their E0 produces really bad smelling exhaust (like bad gasoline) on my chainsaw, UTV and ZTR. I know it is not because they have little turnover; they have a lot of older trucks filling up there all the time.

 

[Automan]

Funny how the cost of putting etoh in the fuel costs money.(corn vs. oil)
Then a market erupts and to get E0, it costs even more.

Lovely discussion!

cliff

 

[JRM]

And who monitors that process?

Your elected officials, for better or worse.

 

[bwalker]

Got me!
Coming from a guy that uses the end products your industry made.

Not a big deal. Your just reporting what you have read and been told. Tons of terrible information out there. And the old wives tales just get recycled until almost everyone takes them for fact.

 

[bwalker]

I will add to that info by defining detonation, which few understand, and which is often a mis-used term. Detonation is the propagation of a chemical reaction within a medium at the speed of sound within that medium. Essentially, it is triggered by a shock wave or a highly compressed front which travels through the medium. In the case of a fuel-air mixture, the compression wave raises the temperature to the auto-ignition temperature, thus ignition occurs as the compression wave travels through the medium. In the case of true explosives such as dynamite or TNT, the shock wave alone is enough to trigger the decomposition of the explosive. By contrast, gunpowder does not detonate; it just burns quickly. If it detonated, it would destroy the gun barrel.

You definition is 100% correct when it comes to things other than what happens in an engine. Although some of what you said pertains to abnormal combination/ detonation within a motor.
In particular detonation within a motor isn't triggered by a shock wave. Rather it's triggered by excess heat causing the formation of active radicals which become unstable and eventually explode spontaneously. This is when the shock wave you mentioned happens.
For a a better read by a true word Smith Google up Kevin Cameron's take on it. Kevin is an engineer, and has a degree in physics from Harvard. He is also an editor for Cycle World and a two stroke nut. He has forgotten more than most people know.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/confusing-detonation-and-preignition/

 

[StoneyMeadowMaple]

I haven’t read each reply here, so please forgive me if I am redundant.
I buy 10 or 15 gallons of ethanol free at a time and don’t let it sit around, I mix my 2 stroke 2 gallons at a time, sometimes I have to do that more than once a day and sometimes more like once a month. Between some antique tractors and some antique vehicles, I find a way that I never have it sitting around more than a month or so. I really like the no-spill cans, particularly if I vent them with a valve stem. I see a lot of people with gas cans in the rain, they sit in the truck or wherever getting wet, at the end of the day when it starts to get cold the can contracts pulling a vacuum inside. If it only gets a tiny drop every time, that still adds up. It really doesn’t matter if you use E10 or Efree or even 100ll if the storage containers aren’t cared for water will find its way in. It only takes looking at a full gas can that is a bit wet around the opening to realize if gas is weeping out, water is weeping in. The odds of getting a gulp of water from a reputable name brand gas is extremely remote, they have to check their tanks regularly and they don’t draw directly from the bottom. I believe proper fuel storage is as important or more than worrying about how much ethanol is in it.

 

[Hermio]

Funny how the cost of putting etoh in the fuel costs money.(corn vs. oil)
Then a market erupts and to get E0, it costs even more.

Lovely discussion!

cliff

And E85 is cheaper per gallon around here.

 

[Hermio]

You definition is 100% correct when it comes to things other than what happens in an engine. Although some of what you said pertains to abnormal combination/ detonation within a motor.
In particular detonation within a motor isn't triggered by a shock wave. Rather it's triggered by excess heat causing the formation of active radicals which become unstable and eventually explode spontaneously. This is when the shock wave you mentioned happens.
For a a better read by a true word Smith Google up Kevin Cameron's take on it. Kevin is an engineer, and has a degree in physics from Harvard. He is also an editor for Cycle World and a two stroke nut. He has forgotten more than most people know.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/confusing-detonation-and-preignition/

Nice article.

 

[Hermio]

I haven’t read each reply here, so please forgive me if I am redundant.
I buy 10 or 15 gallons of ethanol free at a time and don’t let it sit around, I mix my 2 stroke 2 gallons at a time, sometimes I have to do that more than once a day and sometimes more like once a month. Between some antique tractors and some antique vehicles, I find a way that I never have it sitting around more than a month or so. I really like the no-spill cans, particularly if I vent them with a valve stem. I see a lot of people with gas cans in the rain, they sit in the truck or wherever getting wet, at the end of the day when it starts to get cold the can contracts pulling a vacuum inside. If it only gets a tiny drop every time, that still adds up. It really doesn’t matter if you use E10 or Efree or even 100ll if the storage containers aren’t cared for water will find its way in. It only takes looking at a full gas can that is a bit wet around the opening to realize if gas is weeping out, water is weeping in. The odds of getting a gulp of water from a reputable name brand gas is extremely remote, they have to check their tanks regularly and they don’t draw directly from the bottom. I believe proper fuel storage is as important or more than worrying about how much ethanol is in it.

I never let my fuel cans get rained on. If it starts to rain, I stop cutting firewood and put everything away.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

In summation, the smart habit is Non-ethanol fuel with a good 2T oil, or a good 2T canned fuel like those from Aspen, Echo, Stihl, Husqvarna.

 

[Automan]

Not a big deal. Your just reporting what you have read and been told. Tons of terrible information out there. And the old wives tales just get recycled until almost everyone takes them for fact.

45 YEARS IN ENGINE DESIGN/DEVELOPMENT AND DURABILITY
DESIGN ANALYSIS/COMBUSTION RESEARCH/PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENTS/CATALYST RAPID AGING

I do read old magazines for fun to pick out hyperboles and out-right falsehoods from articles written by "experts" aimed at 15-20 year old kids.
I do not read magazines as a habit.

 

[bwalker]

45 YEARS IN ENGINE DESIGN/DEVELOPMENT AND DURABILITY
DESIGN ANALYSIS/COMBUSTION RESEARCH/PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENTS/CATALYST RAPID AGING

I do read old magazines for fun to pick out hyperboles and out-right falsehoods from articles written by "experts" aimed at 15-20 year old kids.
I do not read magazines as a habit.

You won't find any errors from Cameron. But you are right. Magazines are full of errors. Especially in regards to this particular topic.

 

[dboyd351]

 

[Automan]

You won't find any errors from Cameron. But you are right. Magazines are full of errors. Especially in regards to this particular topic.

Love his prose and smarts, but typically lacking details and adding generalities.
Needed for a 1 page mag. article.
Pre-ign. is not close to BDC.
Deto is not the last 5% MFB.

 

[OM617YOTA]

View attachment 1223209

Haven't seen those prices in a long time.

 

[Hermio]

Haven't seen those prices in a long time.

Saw $2.65 here a few days ago. But for E10, not E0.

 

[bwalker]

Love his prose and smarts, but typically lacking details and adding generalities.
Needed for a 1 page mag. article.
Pre-ign. is not close to BDC.
Deto is not the last 5% MFB.

Both of those points are generally true. And of course he isn't talking about 2 strokes specifically.

 

[JRM]

View attachment 1223209

I can't believe how cheap your E0 is. Ours is over $4/gallon.

 

[Automan]

I remember back in the '70's a few stations were farm something owned.
They sold Etoh at 1/2 price of petrol.
I cannot say by how much or what percentage.

Claimed to be OK for normal carbed cars.
cliff

 

[dboyd351]

I can't believe how cheap your E0 is. Ours is over $4/gallon.

it isn't usually anywhere near that cheap. I fact, I have never seen it selling for almost the same price as E10. Usually it is 60-80 cents higher than E10.
That station is very near Kiptopeke State Park where lots of people launch their boats to fish for striped bass this time of year, but that fishery has suffered a major decline over the past 5-10 years to the point most people have just pulled their boats for the season.
That is the majority of the market for non-ethanol fuel at that station.
That's the only thing I can figure is causing this.
The non-ethanol pumps are right next to the diesel pumps, on the far side of the lot from the other gas pumps, so maybe they are trying to get the non-ethanol tanks empty to switch them over to diesel for the winter or something.
Who knows. It has never happened before.