Ethanol in our gas. Are our saws okay?

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Vegi oil also take more energy to produce than it creates. That blows your biodiesel idea.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I see what you're getting at though. You figure you use gas to produce the first batch of ethanol, then use ethanol for the energy to make the rest of the ethanol.
It's almost a perpetual motion machine.
They should do that with Hydrogen too.

 

[Stumper]

Mike, The green weinies who hate petroleum just can't deal with the fact that it is the cheapest and most environmentally friendly option at this point. When it gets to be cheaper to use other energy source we will.....and we will all be hurting because energy will be expensive. I love renewable resources. We can do a lot with solar energy even when it is several steps removed from sunlight (like ethanol) but petroleum is an enormous resource and blessing for humanity because it has powered industry so cheaply for over a century.

 

[brian660]

petroleum is the most enviromentally friendly option at this point? yer joking right?



I give up, hell I shouldn`t have said anything in the first place, no offense but the more people who think like you the more job security I have, think about me when your filling up guys

 

[MS-310]

Corn sucks as a source for cellulose!!! The GOVERNMENT is using it to help the farmers. Whats the purest form of cellulose around? WOOD! So by using corn, you have to ADD one extra step to the process just to extract the celluose. Thats like having to tune up your saw before every start. Its just a government subsidary helping farmers, once ethanol use takes off they will be looking for cheaper a way to make it.....which will be wood chips, or if alcohol in gas takes off it will be sugar cane from Puerto Rico and Hawaii.

You guys should do some thinking on this, first read some not goverment funded sites.
We have a small scale still we produce close to 55 gallons a week(i know not alot soon more when we get a mid scale perment) I run this in all of my trucks and I run it in all of my saws. ethanol is a really good idea it helps farmers and all of us, soon you will se e-85 all over the place. My 2003 gmc loves ethanol a flex-tek converter is the key to most fuel injected autos.
I hate to feaking type (cuz i suck at it) I could tell you all about it or just look at www.dogwoodenergy.com there is so many sites.

they have been making e-10 for a long time now it boost the octane rating up
About wood cellulose, very true but that is what methanol is. Methanol is very rough on rubber and magnessum. They are working on a wood ethanol for a sort time(I think) but the enzyme is very had to get as this moment.
It is harder to make fuel out of wood then corn, Im not trying to be a jack aZZ but its not a government subsidary helping farmers, it hasnt help any around here plus the goverment doesnt see the cash flow compared to the oil companys......

ETHANOL ROCKS

 

[MS-310]

petroleum is the most enviromentally friendly option at this point? yer joking right?



I give up, hell I shouldn`t have said anything in the first place, no offense but the more people who think like you the more job security I have, think about me when your filling up guys

LOL

Petroleum sucks butt

dont give up they need people to tell them it is a good idea, the oil companys wont.
Jack

 

[z4lunch]

There are different amounts of alcohol in fuels.
E85 is 85% Ethanol, 15% gasoline, and has an octane rating of 105.
It is very hard on rubber parts.
In my part of Wisconsin, we have 10% ethanol, which runs the saws slightly leaner than gas, but hasn't been a problem in the several years we've run it, just set the carb correctly.
In the counties outside a 5 county area of Milwaukee, they aren't required to sell gas with ethanol, just straight gas. Cars get better mileage on the straight gas (about 5 to 10%) and it is cheaper (about 5 to 10%). Gas stations on the bordering counties have flourished. People fill up before going into regulated areas, and drive from regulated areas to get the "good gas".
If you run regular gas and switch to 10% ethanol, you'll want to adjust the carb so it doesn't run to lean. I don't have any information on E85 in saws.
It makes me wonder about ethanol. Recent studies show it take something like 1.5 gallons of petroleum to make 1 gallon of ethanol, it costs more, and your vehicle gets worse mileage.
Same with Hydrogen fuel cell cars. Sure they can make cars, but the hydrogen takes more fossil fuel to make, than the hydrogen they get.

Steve here...What Mike said...nothing I own gets ethanol mixed gas...

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

You guys should do some thinking on this, first read some not goverment funded sites.
We have a small scale still we produce close to 55 gallons a week(i know not alot soon more when we get a mid scale perment) I run this in all of my trucks and I run it in all of my saws. ethanol is a really good idea it helps farmers and all of us, soon you will se e-85 all over the place. My 2003 gmc loves ethanol a flex-tek converter is the key to most fuel injected autos.
I hate to feaking type (cuz i suck at it) I could tell you all about it or just look at www.dogwoodenergy.com there is so many sites.

they have been making e-10 for a long time now it boost the octane rating up
About wood cellulose, very true but that is what methanol is. Methanol is very rough on rubber and magnessum. They are working on a wood ethanol for a sort time(I think) but the enzyme is very had to get as this moment.
It is harder to make fuel out of wood then corn, Im not trying to be a jack aZZ but its not a government subsidary helping farmers, it hasnt help any around here plus the goverment doesnt see the cash flow compared to the oil companys......

ETHANOL ROCKS

Ok, please explain this to me and talk in simple terms so I can understand.
Why doesn't the dogwood still use ethanol for fuel to heat it?
I assume it's because it would take more ethanol to run the still than it would make. Otherwise you could just run a small tube off the top, taking part of the ethanol you are making, to run the still.
What I think you are doing in ethanol production, is using energy in the form of wood or electricity to make less energy in the form of ethanol.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

petroleum is the most enviromentally friendly option at this point? yer joking right?

Look up "energy density".


If it takes burning fossil fuels to create alternative energy, you have to consider how much energy you have burned in fossil fuels to get the energy output from the alternative fuels.

Except for making alcohol out of sugar cane (SUGAR, NOT CELLULOSE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!), I'm not aware of any large scale alternative fuel that is a net energy gain.

Biodiesel succeeds on a small scale, but only because the main component is waste veggie oil. I don't think there's enough supply to make it a large scale reality.

 

[Stihldoc]

I have seen many lean running type failures since Virginia switched to 10% ethanol in all gasoline. Are these directly tracable to the ethanol? I don't know. How many of these saws were running on the ragged edge of "too lean" anyway? Stihl says that 10% ethanol is acceptable. 15% is not. E85 is not anywhere close. Cars with computers have to be specially designed as flexible fuel vehicles to burn this poison. We as a shop have been using and recommending the new Stihl "ULTRA" full synthetic mix oil to all customers. It provides a superior level of lubrication- not just "adequate" as with the standard Stihl oil. This additional level of lubrication MAY be provided by other brands and types of oils, but Stihl does not certify their competition's products. There is a middle grade of Stihl oil that is a blend of standard oil and synthetic oil. We chose not to stock it because 3 types of mix oil gets comfusing. The Ultra oil is pricey- but so are cylinder kits. We give each purchaser a couple of bottles of Ultra with each new saw, trimmer, etc. purchased. I believe the standard oil is adequate for lower performance units (homeowner), but pros use their stuff harder and longer. Oil- even synthetic oil- is cheaper thal steel. What is your peace of mind worth?

 

[CaseyForrest]

Doc, I just switched over the the Stihl syn oil. I noticed a difference immediately in the odor.

I use Syn oil in anything I can, figured the saws are good for it too. Especially since all 3 saws I own are brand new.

 

[eric_271]

I bought my 670 j-red new in 93 and it still runs strong after 13 years of running ethanol. Thats all we have been able to get here. I think the 80s were the last of good gas here. My dolmars have run just fine on it for the last 3 years. Its second nature to adjust the carb for winter to summer cutting.

 

[MS-310]

Ok, please explain this to me and talk in simple terms so I can understand.
Why doesn't the dogwood still use ethanol for fuel to heat it?
I assume it's because it would take more ethanol to run the still than it would make. Otherwise you could just run a small tube off the top, taking part of the ethanol you are making, to run the still.
What I think you are doing in ethanol production, is using energy in the form of wood or electricity to make less energy in the form of ethanol.

Yes we use wood, works fine.

If ethanol production was not worth the money would any company have made it?????? The ford model T was built to run "CORN FUEL".
What ever you guys can pay $2.50 to 3.50 a gal for gas and make green house gases and I will make my fuel for $1.10 to $1.23 a gal and make more HP and better for the air.

 

[MS-310]

Look up "energy density".


If it takes burning fossil fuels to create alternative energy, you have to consider how much energy you have burned in fossil fuels to get the energy output from the alternative fuels.

Except for making alcohol out of sugar cane (SUGAR, NOT CELLULOSE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!), I'm not aware of any large scale alternative fuel that is a net energy gain.

Biodiesel succeeds on a small scale, but only because the main component is waste veggie oil. I don't think there's enough supply to make it a large scale reality.

Think about it would any ethanol companys make money????? If it wasnt worth the cost of the heat to make this????? NO......

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Take away the government subsidies and THEN ask that question.

 

[eric_271]

Yes we use wood, works fine.

If ethanol production was not worth the money would any company have made it?????? The ford model T was built to run "CORN FUEL".
What ever you guys can pay $2.50 to 3.50 a gal for gas and make green house gases and I will make my fuel for $1.10 to $1.23 a gal and make more HP and better for the air.

So you are saying for example, there is more energy in a cup of methanol then a cup of gas?

 

[MS-310]

So you are saying for example, there is more energy in a cup of methanol then a cup of gas?

No methanol has less btu's then gas and ethanol.

 

[MS-310]

Take away the government subsidies and THEN ask that question.[/QUOTE

I did ask you the right question, there isnt any goverment subsidies when small scale still are used and we can still make it cheap.
BlueRidgeMark im sure you know your stuff about some thing but this field you dont know very much about ethanol production, so pls dont talk about unless you know, most people dont know much about it so its cool to teach people the right thing. IM sorry mark if I said any thing to piss you off, I mean no harm in this message. Thanks for the arguement.
Jack

 

[mini kahuna]

just been dealing with poor gas quality 3 saws,old case gas backhoe,splitter all running like crap.
backhoe had no power,chased the saws around with a screwdriver for two weeks.
I switched to a brand name 90 octane fuel because I read a recommendation of 90 octane in my new emak saw's manual,problems all gone.
my husky dealer says he has a saw a day come in either running bad or damaged by people trying to set the carb.
up in new england watch out for crappy fuel he said.

 

[MS-310]

So you are saying for example, there is more energy in a cup of methanol then a cup of gas?

ETHANOL has more octane so witch will help H.P. (if your engine is set up for more octane) compared to 87 to 93 pump gas. Yes you can buy 112 and up also but the price is way to much. Im not saying pump gas is dumb I just like ethanol more, and most people dont know much about it and its good to learn new things,
Jack