ever heard of cutting the top half of a tree down?

[outofmytree]

:deadhorse::deadhorse: show me written rules or statues from my state that state I would be negligent in topping the tree...

I don't try to sell topping nor do I advertise it but I will do it.....

You are advertising it every time you do it. The image you portray to your clients is that money is your number 1 priority regardless of what is right or wrong.

I have always liked this quote attributed to Alexander Hamilton "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

Ethics has nothing to do with laws and regulations, it is simply you deciding that you will do what is right regardless.

 

[treemandan]

I do my own mechanic work.........

has nothing to do with ethics, bad ethics is hiring illegals and paying them under the table $6 and hour and working them 12 hours a day and not paying over time......

if I explain to them the down side of the topping and their mind is set on topping the tree you, I or no one else will change it and if I don't get the money someone else will, I've seen guys riding around town hat racking the hell out of trees and ads state ISA certified arborist in the yellow pages....IT'S THEIR TREE, they can do as they please.....

Oh hell, ain't nobody going wanna hack up their lovely automobile, Nah, that would be a crime. A tree? Why not? It don't do nothing but make a mess on the car.


I probably wouldn't go topping a big virgin tree but I find myself re-topping quite few and never worked at a place where they wouldn't jump on a topping job.. save for one and that one would charge to try to correctly prune and support the biggest pieces of crap you ever did see.
I just removed a big maple for my accountant. I told him what topping would do, I told him what it would take to care for the tree to keep it from breaking up, then I told him 2500 to TD it and grind the stump.
I am always cutting the tops of of things like Arbs, cedars and pear trees. I don't know what you would call this...

And I don't think doing this was all that great for the trees but that is what they wanted

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I don't know what you would call this...

That would be a "round-over" in my book. I see it on crabs and hawthorn quite a bit around here; especially when they want "umbrella trees" in a well manicured yard.

And I don't think doing this was all that great for the trees but that is what they wanted

I've been doing more "line off site" trimming on bluffs an hilltops. My latest catch phrase is "Looks good. Ain't good for the tree, but it looks good!"

 

[ozzy42]

I am just curious.

I have a question for those who say they walk away from a client who wants their tree topped.

Do you walk away from a client that wants to remove a perfectly healthy and safe tree?

I think most would remove the tree.If so,wouldn't that be doing the most irreparable harm to the tree imaginable , for a quick buck?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Do you walk away from a client that wants to remove a perfectly healthy and safe tree?

Some do walk away, the line is in different places for each of us.

For most of us it is that butchery is not in the play book. topping is not professional tree care, and if you insist on it being done, you do not want professional work. Another reason is that it leaves an unsafe environment behind, with a small but real liability.

I refuse to top, but have retopped and dropped crotches to make a tree smaller for someone who cannot afford a removal.

 

[matt9923]

this guy wants to hire me my friend who is a 20 year Arborist to cut a tree in half. personally i think it's weird. the tree is perfectly healthy but the home owner says it's too tall(50 feet). he wants us to climb up into the tree and cut from the top down about 20 feet. have any of you guys ever done this? wouldent it look weird with a flat stump left on the top? please chime in thanks.

Iv seen it done for a few reasons. Only tree for the clothesline, iv seen people have it carved into something.

 

[Rftreeman]

You are advertising it every time you do it. The image you portray to your clients is that money is your number 1 priority regardless of what is right or wrong.

yes, you are correct, money is is very high on my priority list, I give the customer what they want and if they pass on my info to John Doe or who ever and say this guy tops trees so be it, as long as guys like you keep walking away from jobs that YOU feel "isn't right for the tree" I will keep making good money doing what you won't do and that's give them what they want (if it's legal)

Ethics has nothing to do with laws and regulations, it is simply you deciding that you will do what is right regardless.

everyone brings up ethics, people been topping trees for over a hundred years and now in the last few years because some pencil pusher has decided that it's wrong it is now unethical to do it and is so dangerous, show me one case where someone was found guilty or lost a case (other than something from states that are communist and don't allow it) because they topped a tree and something or someone got hurt and I'll shut up for ever.........


as for re-topping, that's the same as topping, you're just the second or third guy to do it and so on........


I'll NEVER walk away from a job I can complete and make money on (if it's legal) been doing it for a long time and plan to do it for a long time to come........


.

 

[treeclimber101]

yes, you are correct, money is is very high on my priority list, I give the customer what they want and if they pass on my info to John Doe or who ever and say this guy tops trees so be it, as long as guys like you keep walking away from jobs that YOU feel "isn't right for the tree" I will keep making good money doing what you won't do and that's give them what they want (if it's legal)

everyone brings up ethics, people been topping trees for over a hundred years and now in the last few years because some pencil pusher has decided that it's wrong it is now unethical to do it and is so dangerous, show me one case where someone was found guilty or lost a case (other than something from states that are communist and don't allow it) because they topped a tree and something or someone got hurt and I'll shut up for ever.........


as for re-topping, that's the same as topping, you're just the second or third guy to do it and so on........


I'll NEVER walk away from a job I can complete and make money on (if it's legal) been doing it for a long time and plan to do it for a long time to come........


.

And thank you for that , because you create work for the rest of us to fix, and when you set the benchmark low it's not hard for us to shine ...

 

[ozzy42]

Some do walk away, the line is in different places for each of us.

You answered the first question with "some do".


Wich leaves the assumption that "MOST" would not walk away from an unneeded removal.


So,it's ok to do an unethical and unproffesional removal,so long as there is no trace huh?

 

[ozzy42]

yes, you are correct, money is is very high on my priority list, I give the customer what they want and if they pass on my info to John Doe or who ever and say this guy tops trees so be it, as long as guys like you keep walking away from jobs that YOU feel "isn't right for the tree" I will keep making good money doing what you won't do and that's give them what they want (if it's legal)

everyone brings up ethics, people been topping trees for over a hundred years and now in the last few years because some pencil pusher has decided that it's wrong it is now unethical to do it and is so dangerous, show me one case where someone was found guilty or lost a case (other than something from states that are communist and don't allow it) because they topped a tree and something or someone got hurt and I'll shut up for ever.........


as for re-topping, that's the same as topping, you're just the second or third guy to do it and so on........


I'll NEVER walk away from a job I can complete and make money on (if it's legal) been doing it for a long time and plan to do it for a long time to come........


.

:agree2:

I have seen it done by every Tree service in 2 counties here.
I guess were all hacks:chainsawguy:

 

[Rftreeman]

And thank you for that , because you create work for the rest of us to fix, and when you set the benchmark low it's not hard for us to shine ...

what are you going to fix.....I'll be back in fives years to top it again so what's there to fix........

 

[Rftreeman]

:agree2:

I have seen it done by every Tree service in 2 counties here.
I guess were all hacks:chainsawguy:

yep...

I'll bet you that there's not a man out there that's been in business for more than 15 years that hasn't done it...some aren't ashamed to say they have and will again while others will put up a front trying to fit in.........

hell yes I'm a hack but a happy hack on the way to the bank........

 

[tomtrees58]

I ususally remove the bottom 20 feet and leave the top. Makes it easier to cut the lawn with no trunk to trim around.



/

:hmm3grin2orange:works for me tom trees

 

[ozzy42]

I ususally remove the bottom 20 feet and leave the top. Makes it easier to cut the lawn with no trunk to trim around.



/

Me too:chainsawguy:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

So,it's ok to do an unethical and unproffesional removal,so long as there is no trace huh?

It depends on what I as the practitioner, and my peers consider unprofessional and unethical. Why does the potential client want the tree down?

Let's go back to my thesis that the spectrum of tree care extends from those who do whatever the client reasonably requests and those who are tree advocates. I am in the middle and will do things bad for the tree if it will not pose a long term harm, for the client or future owners.

I ascribe to the idea that owners do not have total control over what they do with real property. Building codes are a logical part of this, you should not be able to wire your house any which way you choose, and you should not alter a large tree in a fashion that will put people at risk in the future.

By removing a garage or tree you alter the property, but do not pose any future risk.

I also ascribe to the idea that a community can place controls on people that move into the community. If they want to control what trees are cut, so be it. I do think that there should be grandfather clauses so that current residents who do not agree should not be held to them.

 

[ozzy42]

It depends on what I as the practitioner, and my peers consider unprofessional and unethical. Why does the potential client want the tree down?

Let's go back to my thesis that the spectrum of tree care extends from those who do whatever the client reasonably requests and those who are tree advocates. I am in the middle and will do things bad for the tree if it will not pose a long term harm, for the client or future owners.

I ascribe to the idea that owners do not have total control over what they do with real property. Building codes are a logical part of this, you should not be able to wire your house any which way you choose, and you should not alter a large tree in a fashion that will put people at risk in the future.

By removing a garage or tree you alter the property, but do not pose any future risk.

I also ascribe to the idea that a community can place controls on people that move into the community. If they want to control what trees are cut, so be it. I do think that there should be grandfather clauses so that current residents who do not agree should not be held to them.

I guess that is the difference between us.

I am a personal property rights advocate,not a tree advocate.

 

[outofmytree]

Hey RFtree and Ozzy. What you do is your concern. I am simply stating what I do. I do walk away from topping jobs and I do walk away from needless removals. I also have in the past topped trees and removed trees needlessly. The difference from then to now is knowledge. I read more, learned more and made the choice to improve myself. It does not make me a saint but it does make me feel a lot better about myself and about the work I do.

 

[tomtrees58]

yep...

I'll bet you that there's not a man out there that's been in business for more than 15 years that hasn't done it...some aren't ashamed to say they have and will again while others will put up a front trying to fit in.........

hell yes I'm a hack but a happy hack on the way to the bank........

i agree i am no hack 36 years now in the tree business all try to stop the home people from topping a tree but the bottom line if you wont do some one will so we do and wen it dies we have a removal job thomas h duffy arborist

 

[voxac30dude]

if an HO is asking me to cut something that is not worth cutting or is healthy i just throw out a buncha scientific words at them like, cambium or photosynthesis and they get soo confused they just walk back inside and let me go to work and do the right thing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
anyone can use a chainsaw to cut a tree but, not everyone can cut a tree the right way.

 

[matt9923]

if an HO is asking me to cut something that is not worth cutting or is healthy i just throw out a buncha scientific words at them like, cambium or photosynthesis and they get soo confused they just walk back inside and let me go to work and do the right thing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
anyone can use a chainsaw to cut a tree but, not everyone can cut a tree the right way.

Id tell you to get lost, and if you already started working tuff. Their paying if they want a stub for clothesline or something you will say no?? That's stupid.

Why chase away business?