ever heard of cutting the top half of a tree down?

[matt9923]

i agree i am no hack 36 years now in the tree business all try to stop the home people from topping a tree but the bottom line if you wont do some one will so we do and wen it dies we have a removal job thomas h duffy arborist

Best post of the thread tom!!

 

[treemandan]

http://images.google.com/images?q=tree topping

I think a couple of them might have been mine though it was the guy with the whip who made me do it.

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

[yep, it's their tree, but your reputation! Here in Tn there is one place that i know of where topping is illegal. Think about it, if topping was illegal everywhere, then Certified Arborists like myself would have endless amounts of work. QUOTE=ozzy42;1754357]We have a lot of seniors here who think that is the only way to make a tree "safe" ,at least to them.
I try to talk them out of it ,telling them" it will harm the tree,it will grow back worse than before, etc,etc."
Some will listen ,some won't.

Some tell me they will be dead by time it becomes a problem again,and they don't care.
At that point ,I do whatever they want to do .
It is after all,,,their tree.

But it has been debated on here quite a bit ,and there are plenty who will disagree with me ,but nobody chimed in yet,so I figured I would give you my
.02 worth.

edit: In some cities here it is illegal to remove a canopy from certain trees.
check with the regs where you are.[/QUOTE]

 

[ozzy42]

[yep, it's their tree, but your reputation! Here in Tn there is one place that i know of where topping is illegal. Think about it, if topping was illegal everywhere, then Certified Arborists like myself would have endless amounts of work.

The fact that it is illegal in some places means it is not done there.
It simply takes the "I want it done that way,and if you won't do it the next guy will" part away from the HO."

How do you think that equates to only CAs getting work???
Dream on.

 

[Rftreeman]

certification is like a drivers license, just because you got it doesn't mean you know what you're doing..............lol......

opcorn:

:bringit:

 

[B_Turner]

I heard a guy once say you could tell alot about a guy with a chainsaw by the type of helmet he was wearing in the tree.

 

[treeclimber101]

what are you going to fix.....I'll be back in fives years to top it again so what's there to fix........

What I fix is your work , often repairing previously topped trees and eventually the customer will get the point and not ask for a antiquated tree practice , and your right there are some customers that want this type of work and you will see someone doing it , but the bottom line is what is that quick buck worth to you.. Your mark lasts alot longer than the money in your pocket and every tree you walk away from is a show of your knowledge .

 

[Rftreeman]

To quote Phil Collins "I don't care anymore" about this thread........it's only a :deadhorse: session now
people have different opinions about this evil tree topping thing so let's leave it at that and put this thread out of it's misery.....

 

[arborist]

"let Tom,####,and Harry cut the grass.Leave your tree's to professionals"

What's that bumper sticker from sherril say?
"let Tom,####,and Harry cut the grass.Leave your tree's to professionals"

It's easy to spot a "hack" and a professional in arboriculture,even for homeowners.
What do you want to be? nothing? Just a guy who happens to know,how to climb trees and get some money?
Or would you like to be a tree doctor?
The choice is yours.
Don't expect to keep hacking tree's and even coming close to an arborist's yearly wages.It wont happen.
When we walk away from a determined home owner who want's hack work,we are not the ones losing the bucks boys.It's the small time hacker who couldn't or didn't make the grade to "arborist" who doesn't stand a chance making the kind of yearly salary an arborist does.

Tree's in ones landscape,can be worth more than our trucks!
You want to risk killing one or someone else?
Legal or not,how will you feel when the day finally comes,where a child was playing under a tree,you knowingly incorrectly pruned, (topping is not even pruning lol) And the new scientifically proven, weakly connected sprout,comes down and kill's the child?
Forget the court.
How will you feel?

Pause.
Meditate on that question for a moment.


Do you not even care enough for people,so as to not even listen to professionals explain the very BASICS of hazards?
Do you really think professionals haven't researched,time and time again,these principles?Do you really think we just pull this stuff out of our hats?
Do you really think these things are not based on years,and years of scientific research? Who are YOU,to decide that dedicated arborists and scientific research based on thousands,and thousands of hours come to the conclusion that topping is wrong,dangerous,a real hazard,a real lawsuit on your head,should anything happen? Who are YOU to disagree with this?
People who "top" tree's are NOT arborist's.
Something so basic as topping is being done today due to lack of education.
You have professionals telling you topping is wrong,yet because you have been a "hack" for years,you think your way is right.
ok,so a "hack" doesn't care about tree's.So it's pointless trying to explain things this way,so lets try this approach:
Which would you rather have?
A.A professional DR work on you?
or
B.A guy with a saw who can cut off a leg if it's infected?
Well,duh,you want the Dr.
What do you think most homeowners want?
A tree Dr or a guy with a chainsaw?

It's not those of us who know when to walk away who are making less money boys.I promise you.

Pick up a book and get started in the field of arboriculture.

Iv said it before,and I'll say it again.Every state should mandate state licensing for arborists.

Reflect on that question asked again please about how you would feel,all due to one thing:
You simply didn't listen to those professionals on AS.
Kick yourself then or now?
I'd recommend kicking yourself now boys.
Just walk away.Its not only the most profitable thing to do in the long run,its the safest.Don't even walk.......run away when asked to top a tree.

Hack or arborist tomorrow? The choice is yours.

 

[arborist]

If you expect us to stop pounding you tree topping hacks you'd better think again!


Get a real job bubba and leave the trees alone!



/

Amen brother!
We can't ever give up.It means saving life's of people and tree's.

 

[Rftreeman]

If you expect us to stop pounding you tree topping hacks you'd better think again!


Get a real job bubba and leave the trees alone!



/

What's that bumper sticker from sherril say?
"let Tom,####,and Harry cut the grass.Leave your tree's to professionals"

It's easy to spot a "hack" and a professional in arboriculture,even for homeowners.
What do you want to be? nothing? Just a guy who happens to know,how to climb trees and get some money?
Or would you like to be a tree doctor?
The choice is yours.
Don't expect to keep hacking tree's and even coming close to an arborist's yearly wages.It wont happen.
When we walk away from a determined home owner who want's hack work,we are not the ones losing the bucks boys.It's the small time hacker who couldn't or didn't make the grade to "arborist" who doesn't stand a chance making the kind of yearly salary an arborist does.

Tree's in ones landscape,can be worth more than our trucks!
You want to risk killing one or someone else?
Legal or not,how will you feel when the day finally comes,where a child was playing under a tree,you knowingly incorrectly pruned, (topping is not even pruning lol) And the new scientifically proven, weakly connected sprout,comes down and kill's the child?
Forget the court.
How will you feel?

Pause.
Meditate on that question for a moment.


Do you not even care enough for people,so as to not even listen to professionals explain the very BASICS of hazards?
Do you really think professionals haven't researched,time and time again,these principles?Do you really think we just pull this stuff out of our hats?
Do you really think these things are not based on years,and years of scientific research? Who are YOU,to decide that dedicated arborists and scientific research based on thousands,and thousands of hours come to the conclusion that topping is wrong,dangerous,a real hazard,a real lawsuit on your head,should anything happen? Who are YOU to disagree with this?
People who "top" tree's are NOT arborist's.
Something so basic as topping is being done today due to lack of education.
You have professionals telling you topping is wrong,yet because you have been a "hack" for years,you think your way is right.
ok,so a "hack" doesn't care about tree's.So it's pointless trying to explain things this way,so lets try this approach:
Which would you rather have?
A.A professional DR work on you?
or
B.A guy with a saw who can cut off a leg if it's infected?
Well,duh,you want the Dr.
What do you think most homeowners want?
A tree Dr or a guy with a chainsaw?

It's not those of us who know when to walk away who are making less money boys.I promise you.

Pick up a book and get started in the field of arboriculture.

Iv said it before,and I'll say it again.Every state should mandate state licensing for arborists.

Reflect on that question asked again please about how you would feel,all due to one thing:
You simply didn't listen to those professionals on AS.
Kick yourself then or now?
I'd recommend kicking yourself now boys.
Just walk away.Its not only the most profitable thing to do in the long run,its the safest.Don't even walk.......run away when asked to top a tree.

Hack or arborist tomorrow? The choice is yours.

Amen brother!
We can't ever give up.It means saving life's of people and tree's.

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

YOU CAN BEAT THAT DEAD HORSE FOREVER, IT AIN'T GONNA GET UP AND WALK AGAIN.....

 

[arbor pro]

Hey RFtree and Ozzy. What you do is your concern. I am simply stating what I do. I do walk away from topping jobs and I do walk away from needless removals. I also have in the past topped trees and removed trees needlessly. The difference from then to now is knowledge. I read more, learned more and made the choice to improve myself. It does not make me a saint but it does make me feel a lot better about myself and about the work I do.

If I could have, outofmytree, I would have rep'd you again for this statement. When I first started out some 20+ years ago, I topped a few trees because I didn't know any better. I now know better and refuse to do so. Instead, I will discuss other options with my client and find a solution that is best for them and their property in the long run.

We have on this site seasoned arborists and seasoned hacks. We also have arborist wannabes and hack wannabes. There is really no gray area inbetween. You choose to be or to become one or the other but you can't be both.

 

[treeclimber101]

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

YOU CAN BEAT THAT DEAD HORSE FOREVER, IT AIN'T GONNA GET UP AND WALK AGAIN.....

Or in your case You can't teach an old dog new tricks ,lol we do love the hacks here they make us shine baby..

 

[Rftreeman]

Or in your case You can't teach an old dog new tricks ,lol we do love the hacks here they make us shine baby..

I think you missed the part where I said I try to talk them out of it first as for teaching an old dog new tricks, I've learned a lot over the past few years but I'm not going to walk away from a job that's paying just because you want me too, I've never made any claim of being an arborist but I don't go out telling people that they need to have the trees topped and I never argued that it was the right thing to do either so I don't know where "arborist" got that, they tell me that's what they want and if after explaining to them what can happen or trying to talk them in to removing and replacing with a shorter tree and they still insist then they get what they want rather you or anyone else likes it or not, you tell me you'll walk if they ask you to top it, what if you got hungry kids at home and bills are piling up do to this screwed up economy and the only work you can find is a few top jobs, going to walk then, I doubt it...

as for the find a real job and grass mowing remarks...I do both and have a real job that I go out everyday and do and do it well on both sides of the playing field, it's not impossible to be both.....

now, I'm done in this thread, it's obvious that a few here have ego trips and just come here to preach and put down others because they do it a bit different then some or might include grass cutting in their line of service....

 

[treeseer]

now, I'm done in this thread, it's obvious that a few here have ego trips and just come here to preach and put down others because they do it a bit different then some or might include grass cutting in their line of service....

dang you guys were hard on Rf, who has come a LONG way on this site; he's my homeboy so I'm watching...

"We have on this site seasoned arborists and seasoned hacks. We also have arborist wannabes and hack wannabes. There is really no gray area inbetween. You choose to be or to become one or the other but you can't be both."

With all due respect good sir that is total BS. We're all gray--I just whacked my mature crepemyrtles to 30% of their former size, whaddya gonna call that?

opcorn:

 

[treeseer]

I would call it a waste of time and disrespect for a plant's natural form...I'm sure you had a good reason though...one better than doing it to put food on the table.

no food--they're my own trees. I do respect the bottom 15' of form, but they made few flowers and were crowding some oaks i planted that i wanted to dominate. cuts made to nodes; oughta have good callus knobs before long.

Yet some judgmental folk may spew a "rule" like "You can't turn a mature tree into a pollard". :censored: Seeing only black and white blinds you to a rainbow of opportunity, and painting others black shows a lack of confidence in one's work. Slamming others to make yourself look good; not nice, not showing much belief in your own work standing on its own.

imo

 

[outofmytree]

no food--they're my own trees. I do respect the bottom 15' of form, but they made few flowers and were crowding some oaks i planted that i wanted to dominate. cuts made to nodes; oughta have good callus knobs before long.

Yet some judgmental folk may spew a "rule" like "You can't turn a mature tree into a pollard". :censored: Seeing only black and white blinds you to a rainbow of opportunity, and painting others black shows a lack of confidence in one's work. Slamming others to make yourself look good; not nice, not showing much belief in your own work standing on its own.

imo

I can't speak for anyone else Guy, but it was never my intention to "slam" anyone. I firmly believe that a mans work should be testimony to his skills and his standards. Topped trees say, in the loudest possible voice, "the person who did this chose money over ethics". If we, as tree professionals, cannot agree that topping is simply wrong then what hope is there of turning the general population away from this antiquated practise?

To the guys who still top trees I would say, rather than give in to the uneducated client, learn to sell good tree pruning. As the owner of a small business one of most important skills you can learn is the ability to sell your company. Take a sales course and adapt the teaching to your craft. As important as it is to understand trees, it is people who pay the bills. So we need to understand them too.

Grandma used to say "you draw more bees with honey than vinegar" so if I have stepped one anyones toes, I apologise.

 

[treeseer]

If we, as tree professionals, cannot agree that topping is simply wrong then what hope is there of turning the general population away from this antiquated practise?

De debbil is in de details; ANSI's definition of topping has shifted over the years but it is still not right imo. 10 arborists may look at a pruning job; 5 may call it improper topping, 5 may call it proper crown reduction.

Not sure Rf knows how to climb to the ends to make good reduction cuts though; that is the key.

 

[Rftreeman]

Not sure Rf knows how to climb to the ends to make good reduction cuts though; that is the key.

I said I was done but I'll answer this, in a bucket yes but climbing no I can't get my fat ass out there anymore, I only climb on spikes now on simple removals, I do have the connections for a rope climber for such things other than removals..

 

[treeclimber101]

I think you missed the part where I said I try to talk them out of it first as for teaching an old dog new tricks, I've learned a lot over the past few years but I'm not going to walk away from a job that's paying just because you want me too, I've never made any claim of being an arborist but I don't go out telling people that they need to have the trees topped and I never argued that it was the right thing to do either so I don't know where "arborist" got that, they tell me that's what they want and if after explaining to them what can happen or trying to talk them in to removing and replacing with a shorter tree and they still insist then they get what they want rather you or anyone else likes it or not, you tell me you'll walk if they ask you to top it, what if you got hungry kids at home and bills are piling up do to this screwed up economy and the only work you can find is a few top jobs, going to walk then, I doubt it...

as for the find a real job and grass mowing remarks...I do both and have a real job that I go out everyday and do and do it well on both sides of the playing field, it's not impossible to be both.....

now, I'm done in this thread, it's obvious that a few here have ego trips and just come here to preach and put down others because they do it a bit different then some or might include grass cutting in their line of service....

I didn't know you cut grass ,I plow snow who cares about the other services , but at first you were quite beligerent about tree topping and I agree someone else will do it if you don't , so that's my take on that RF and I'm not bashing you I am just an :censored: so It's my fault ...