Falling cuts

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Trx250r180

Trx250r180

Saw polisher
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is there any threads on falling cuts ,and why they do what they do ? only ones i usually use are humbolt and coos ,but ive been noticing different ones in pictures ,some backcuts low some high some angled ,is that just user preference or is there some physics with different cuts ?for lean etc
 
I've always heard that low was bad, angled is worse.

Low and with a saginaw (conventional) can cause a kick back, where in the tree jumps backwards off the stump, you know at the faller..., using the humboldt negates this for the most part.

Crooked back cuts that cross the face, can cause the tree to fall away from the desired direction, similar to leaving more holding wood on one side or the other,

Crooked back cuts in the sloping toward or away from the face way, are mostly just sloppy, but if steep enough can make wedging a real nightmare, because instead of lifting the tree, you are in effect trying to push it over, this can lead to the holding wood breaking and having the tree choose its own path (i.e. very bad). It also makes pounding the wedges in difficult as Hel, especially if it slopes in an upward direction...

Having the back cut to high can lead to lots of fiber pulling or a premature holding wood release (cutter keeps on cutting and wacking wedges and before he know it he/she's past the face cut and the holding wood just splits off like cord wood...)

There are situations where you could use anyone of these methods for your benifit, but there are other and safer ways of accomplishing the same thing...

I usually try to have the back cut flush or up to 2" higher than the face cuts, and the back cut parallel with the face, unless its a soft dutch or some other fancy face then its perpendicular with the tree... ish... kinda... when I'm lucky... and not to tired...:chainsaw:
 
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One cut i have heard about and found interesting was where the back cut is done lower than the face cut .
I have heard they use this technique when tying a rope into a tree to either counteract a lean, or help pull the tree in the desired direction away from buildings etc.
I was told it is used as a safeguard where the rope is not placed that high up a tree, perhaps only as high as the ladder goes and if the operator on the tow rope end pulls too soon , it stops the trunk being pulled off the stump and the canopy going over backwards where the faller is.
Regards Wayne
 
Ive noticed west coast guys the facecut is on the low side,east seems like face is up high,our stumps seem higher too,ive always been told back cut strait off my face unless you need more holding wood for wedging go up some,they go here i want them usually,if in question always can push with a machine if avalible
 
My boss gets pissed when I use a humboldt. I throw in humboldt if I wanna do a sizwheel or a soft dutchmen. He likes me to do conventional notch cause then I can get the stump lower, he says that the stump should be no more than 4" tall. I was cutting down a small black birch that was in the way of the skid trail and I threw a humboldt in it in front of bossman and he really freaked out over it. We weren't using the tree for nothin, it was just in the way, and he flipped out over me doing a humboldt. saying who the hell cuts trees like that anyways blah blah blah! He's cut down big stuff out west on some island he heli logged there for a few years, showed me a bunch of cool pictures, I reckon they dint say nothin bout him using a conventional notch. Anyways, it's funny, GOL teaches that Humboldts are dangerous and risky, and that open face (split the difference) are the safest....bunch of bologna. Slowp posted a logging safety video thing from canada and they said that humboldt was safest and conventional was dangeroust. They also said it was required for a faller to have a wrap around handle bar on their saw and an ax and at least 3 wedges. My boss is the opposite, if he gets saws from out west for a good deal and they have full wrap handles, he takes a hacksaw to em and makes em half wrap! (what a nut job he is)...on top of that, he never carries an ax on him, he'll cut a piece of branch and use that to pound wedges. and I've seen him before cut up the wedge from the face cut and use them as wedges whilst pounding them in with a branch. he sure is something...61 years old and can outwork the whole crew too whatdoya know. his pops just retired from the logging business last year, at 80 something years old. they dont make em like they used to.
 
4x4American said:
My boss gets pissed when I use a humboldt. I throw in humboldt if I wanna do a sizwheel or a soft dutchmen. He likes me to do conventional notch cause then I can get the stump lower, he says that the stump should be no more than 4" tall. I was cutting down a small black birch that was in the way of the skid trail and I threw a humboldt in it in front of bossman and he really freaked out over it. We weren't using the tree for nothin, it was just in the way, and he flipped out over me doing a humboldt. saying who the hell cuts trees like that anyways blah blah blah! He's cut down big stuff out west on some island he heli logged there for a few years, showed me a bunch of cool pictures, I reckon they dint say nothin bout him using a conventional notch. Anyways, it's funny, GOL teaches that Humboldts are dangerous and risky, and that open face (split the difference) are the safest....bunch of bologna. Slowp posted a logging safety video thing from canada and they said that humboldt was safest and conventional was dangeroust. They also said it was required for a faller to have a wrap around handle bar on their saw and an ax and at least 3 wedges. My boss is the opposite, if he gets saws from out west for a good deal and they have full wrap handles, he takes a hacksaw to em and makes em half wrap! (what a nut job he is)...on top of that, he never carries an ax on him, he'll cut a piece of branch and use that to pound wedges. and I've seen him before cut up the wedge from the face cut and use them as wedges whilst pounding them in with a branch. he sure is something...61 years old and can outwork the whole crew too whatdoya know. his pops just retired from the logging business last year, at 80 something years old. they dont make em like they used to.
Click to expand...

Your boss sounds an interesting piece of work to me. But, him having all that experience and merits, it's safe to say, as long as you're working for him, shut up and do exactly how he wants it done.
 
What if your on a slope? A Humboldt can be done with cuts good and close to the ground.
Iv never cut any big enough, but I can imagine a conventional face on big timber day after day would wear a guy out a whole lot quicker than using a Humboldt and allowing gravity to do the work.
 
4x4American said:
My boss gets pissed when I use a humboldt. I throw in humboldt if I wanna do a sizwheel or a soft dutchmen. He likes me to do conventional notch cause then I can get the stump lower, he says that the stump should be no more than 4" tall. I was cutting down a small black birch that was in the way of the skid trail and I threw a humboldt in it in front of bossman and he really freaked out over it. We weren't using the tree for nothin, it was just in the way, and he flipped out over me doing a humboldt.

GOL teaches that Humboldts are dangerous and risky, and that open face (split the difference) are the safest....bunch of bologna. Slowp posted a logging safety video thing from canada and they said that humboldt was safest and conventional was dangeroust. They also said it was required for a faller to have a wrap around handle bar on their saw and an ax and at least 3 wedges.
Click to expand...

Always respect your boss and his experience.

I only use a humboldt on all species. Today however I threw in a conventional on a 4ft white oak using a 20 in bar. I only did it because it was a shell and I knew I would be butting alot off the tree. Conventional cuts will cause grief at the mills due to the missing wedge out of the butt. I have seen on first count basis where a conventional ruined ERC logs due to length. What happened was the cants were goin to a closet liner producer, he has to have say 8'2 at the minimum, if the logger measures from the long end...the log actually measures short. Same thing seems to go with tie logs, the mills around here absolutely don't want conventional notched butt logs...but to each their own I guess.

I don't understand the second statement where it says you HAVE to have a full wrap to do a humboldt...I have personally never even seen a full wrap except in pictures.

disclaimer...I'm no expert and learn everyday :hmm3grin2orange:
 
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East vs west i use what works best. Some times humbolt and sometimes conventional. I allways make my back cut level. Mills dont want the flair on the high grade so the stumps are a little higher. And guys on the east cost tend to run short bars.
 
timberland ts said:
East vs west i use what works best. Some times humbolt and sometimes conventional. I allways make my back cut level. Mills dont want the flair on the high grade so the stumps are a little higher. And guys on the east cost tend to run short bars.
Click to expand...

I don't really see it as an East vs. West scenario...I would love to have the skill set the left coasters have! Also I'm central! :hmm3grin2orange:
 
sun64 said:
One cut i have heard about and found interesting was where the back cut is done lower than the face cut .
I have heard they use this technique when tying a rope into a tree to either counteract a lean, or help pull the tree in the desired direction away from buildings etc.
I was told it is used as a safeguard where the rope is not placed that high up a tree, perhaps only as high as the ladder goes and if the operator on the tow rope end pulls too soon , it stops the trunk being pulled off the stump and the canopy going over backwards where the faller is.
Regards Wayne
Click to expand...

This may work, however if pulling a danger tree over its always better to go as high as you can with your pull rope so you have more leverage, more leverage means your less likely to pull the butt out.

Also if pulling you can leave much more holding wood and still get the tree over, thereby reducing the risk of pulling the butt off, you do run a little risk of chairing this way but its slight. You run more risk of chairing from having a low back cut regardless of pulling it over or not...


Now as far as humboldt vs conventional/saginaw... you can still use sizwheel with a conventional, but it burns butt wood so might as well start with a humboldt, in fact soft dutch, step dutch, all burn butt wood with a conventional, so just use a humboldt... Humboldt WILL stop a tree from kicking back, ( not might, will) where a conventional will not, unless you cut your back a little high and even then its iffy, in thinning or steep ground this is far more important then getting the lowest stump and highest chiropractor bill... you can alway cut the stump lower after the tree is on the ground.

And for GOL... well lets just say they would kick me out of that class... and not just for my foul mouth

Short bars... :msp_confused: i just don't get it... we have hardwood out here too... walnut, maple, oak, (doug fir is considered by some to be a hard wood...???) but a 36" bar on an 70cc saw is not unusual... I guess if a guy/gurrl wants to make laps around a tree for half an hour that's up to him...
 
4x4American said:
My boss gets pissed when I use a humboldt. I throw in humboldt if I wanna do a sizwheel or a soft dutchmen. He likes me to do conventional notch cause then I can get the stump lower, he says that the stump should be no more than 4" tall. I was cutting down a small black birch that was in the way of the skid trail and I threw a humboldt in it in front of bossman and he really freaked out over it. We weren't using the tree for nothin, it was just in the way, and he flipped out over me doing a humboldt. saying who the hell cuts trees like that anyways blah blah blah! He's cut down big stuff out west on some island he heli logged there for a few years, showed me a bunch of cool pictures, I reckon they dint say nothin bout him using a conventional notch. Anyways, it's funny, GOL teaches that Humboldts are dangerous and risky, and that open face (split the difference) are the safest....bunch of bologna. Slowp posted a logging safety video thing from canada and they said that humboldt was safest and conventional was dangeroust. They also said it was required for a faller to have a wrap around handle bar on their saw and an ax and at least 3 wedges. My boss is the opposite, if he gets saws from out west for a good deal and they have full wrap handles, he takes a hacksaw to em and makes em half wrap! (what a nut job he is)...on top of that, he never carries an ax on him, he'll cut a piece of branch and use that to pound wedges. and I've seen him before cut up the wedge from the face cut and use them as wedges whilst pounding them in with a branch. he sure is something...61 years old and can outwork the whole crew too whatdoya know. his pops just retired from the logging business last year, at 80 something years old. they dont make em like they used to.
Click to expand...

Well I will put this kindly, Your boss and I WOULD NOT GET ALONG. the second he told me not to use a humbolt, I reckon that old fart and I would be rollen round in the brush exchanging fists!!
 
4x4American said:
My boss gets pissed when I use a humboldt. I throw in humboldt if I wanna do a sizwheel or a soft dutchmen. He likes me to do conventional notch cause then I can get the stump lower, he says that the stump should be no more than 4" tall. I was cutting down a small black birch that was in the way of the skid trail and I threw a humboldt in it in front of bossman and he really freaked out over it. We weren't using the tree for nothin, it was just in the way, and he flipped out over me doing a humboldt. saying who the hell cuts trees like that anyways blah blah blah! He's cut down big stuff out west on some island he heli logged there for a few years, showed me a bunch of cool pictures, I reckon they dint say nothin bout him using a conventional notch. Anyways, it's funny, GOL teaches that Humboldts are dangerous and risky, and that open face (split the difference) are the safest....bunch of bologna. Slowp posted a logging safety video thing from canada and they said that humboldt was safest and conventional was dangeroust. They also said it was required for a faller to have a wrap around handle bar on their saw and an ax and at least 3 wedges. My boss is the opposite, if he gets saws from out west for a good deal and they have full wrap handles, he takes a hacksaw to em and makes em half wrap! (what a nut job he is)...on top of that, he never carries an ax on him, he'll cut a piece of branch and use that to pound wedges. and I've seen him before cut up the wedge from the face cut and use them as wedges whilst pounding them in with a branch. he sure is something...61 years old and can outwork the whole crew too whatdoya know. his pops just retired from the logging business last year, at 80 something years old. they dont make em like they used to.
Click to expand...


I have to agree with Samlock, don't forget who signs the cheques
 
056 kid said:
What if your on a slope? A Humboldt can be done with cuts good and close to the ground.
Iv never cut any big enough, but I can imagine a conventional face on big timber day after day would wear a guy out a whole lot quicker than using a Humboldt and allowing gravity to do the work.
Click to expand...

How do you figure that? Seems to me if you're dogged in the tree should be bearing nearly all the weight
 
I think, maybe the beanhead was thinking about levering or chunking out big face cuts. It can be a chore and dangerous to feet and shinbones.
 

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