Falling pics 11/25/09

[OlympicYJ]

Cottonwood works pretty good for sideboards on dumptrucks too. Most around here like spruce and DF. My uncle had my dad mill some out of cottonwood cause he had it sittin around. Said if he hit it just a little at a time would get wore off and it was decently light after being cured.

 

[paccity]

the last section we did went for lumber. this time pulp . he's making something off it, we bid on dropping them chipping the 20" and smaller the park keeps the chips and the selfloader gets what he can. at least we get to do it in the winter as there not so heavy and don't stink quite so much.

 

[RiverRat2]

I am enjoying this conversation. The attached pics below are of a big dying hemlock that a couple guys (unnamed) used to demo "hazard tree falling" at an ISA PNW conference. Rather than admit they screwed up (which I, and you guys here know they did, in more ways than one) they insisted to the credulous crowd around the stump that it was "just right". This was even ignoring that fact that they had to put two more people on the rope (which was strung through several blocks) to pull the tree over!. :bang:

Maybe this one should be called the "two tiered above and below the face back-cut"?

Kind of reminds me of the old joke:

Question:

What is an expert?

Answer:

A little drip.

Expert = Ex is a has been, xpert= a drip under pressure,,,, Yeah they messed up!!!!

 

[s.v tmbrjak]

I do apologize I have never fallen alder.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I count four ways that the faller messed up on the hemlock (not including using a saw with too small a bar -- that shouldn't have been a big deal, although I would have used a bigger bar).

 

[Hddnis]

I count four ways that the faller messed up on the hemlock (not including using a saw with too small a bar -- that shouldn't have been a big deal, although I would have used a bigger bar).

I think for that guy the easiest thing to correct would be bar length; all that would take is some money. :hmm3grin2orange:



Mr. HE

 

[madhatte]

I count four ways that the faller messed up on the hemlock (not including using a saw with too small a bar -- that shouldn't have been a big deal, although I would have used a bigger bar).

Lessee, I'm sure I'll miss something.

I see: face WAY too shallow (they had to lift the whole damn tree to get it to go over), unnecessary split-level cut (probably to get a wedge in each side which is unnecessary but harmless), way too big of forces to want to release with a trigger (thing had to be practically spring-poled to go over that way), falling well against the limb weight under all that external tension, and although I didn't get to see them actually cutting it, I'll bet that this was at least 75% back-bar work when it didn't need to be. The hinge was a bit thin, too. I'm guessing that for demonstration they were emphasizing exact percentages of this cut and that, and the "safety" of split cuts and releases, and that this was the "safe" way they want to preach. Not my tree, not my place to criticize, but from here, I'd guess that a swing dutchman or a siswheel would have done the same thing with a lot less work and no climbing.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

Lessee, I'm sure I'll miss something.

I see: face WAY too shallow (they had to lift the whole damn tree to get it to go over), unnecessary split-level cut (probably to get a wedge in each side which is unnecessary but harmless), way too big of forces to want to release with a trigger (thing had to be practically spring-poled to go over that way), falling well against the limb weight under all that external tension, and although I didn't get to see them actually cutting it, I'll bet that this was at least 75% back-bar work when it didn't need to be. The hinge was a bit thin, too. I'm guessing that for demonstration they were emphasizing exact percentages of this cut and that, and the "safety" of split cuts and releases, and that this was the "safe" way they want to preach. Not my tree, not my place to criticize, but from here, I'd guess that a swing dutchman or a siswheel would have done the same thing with a lot less work and no climbing.

Check on the shallow face, thin hinge.

The split level cut seemed like an accident (or poor technique) to me, as was:

the back cut only slightly above the face on one side;
the back cut below the face on the other side;
the back cut sloping up to the face cut.

What you couldn't see in addition to the lettering on the white sign ("Demonstration Tree") was that they allowed the crowd too close -- given that they nearly cut all their holding wood off, there was a chance it could have fallen sideways!

They used a back strap to demo avoiding a barber chair (which actually wasn't likely IMHO, as the tree was near vertical and fairly balanced in the crown)
as well as to talk about how it puts the faller farther away from the tree as he is cutting the last of the wood before it falls, in case dead bits break off or the butt does something unexpected. That part was reasonable.

They also said that rigging it instead of using wedges to send it over was safer, because the shock of pounding the wedges could also lead to stuff breaking off while you are next to the tree. The rope did give a nice smooth pull, because they had it through three blocks and held the slack with a prusik, so as not to rock the tree. Again, a good idea -- I certainly wouldn't have bothered with either the back-strap or rigging the tree, but I suppose we were to picture the tree as long dead and fragile (in fact, it still had a little green left -- died of root rot; you can see some stained wood in the stump).

I think the thing I objected to (yes, I opened my mouth, and the guys doing the demo seemed a bit defensive here) was the height of the back-cut. I think that they should have admitted they made a mistake: "yea, could have been a bit higher, that adds safety in that the butt is less likely to slide back at the faller, and hmmm... would have been easier to pull the tree over".

But they didn't.

With the rope tensioned, the tree actually had a good chance of sliding back when the faller cut the back-strap.

 

[madhatte]

died of root rot; you can see some stained wood in the stump

Saw that, and wondered, as always: did it die of root rot, or was the root rot merely present when it died? Is there a context for a root rot center nearby? How long has the tree been there, and how long since it had neighbors? Is this a historically forested site?

 

[Samlock]

I never nip corners unless I'm cutting them off for dutchmans. I really don't get the point. The corners are going to have more strength being green. The highest pressure when the face closes is in the heart.

When you cut soft wood with shallow rooting, like spruce, and keep your stumps low, you might want to shave the corners off for avoiding an involuntary siswheel effect.

 

[floyd]

I used to sell cottonwood to Ft Vancouver Plywood.

 

[Metals406]

I cut a tree once. . .



:msp_scared:

 

[Jacob J.]

I used to sell cottonwood to Ft Vancouver Plywood.

Roseburg Lumber is peeling Cottonwood for filler in plywood and laminates.

 

[floyd]

I was hauling 3 log loads.On a 16' 5th wheel.

 

[TreeGuyHR]

Saw that, and wondered, as always: did it die of root rot, or was the root rot merely present when it died? Is there a context for a root rot center nearby? How long has the tree been there, and how long since it had neighbors? Is this a historically forested site?

It's in the Seattle area in a park. A few years before, the top foot or so of soil was removed and replaced, because it was contaminated by an old smelter. Several other large trees have declined and some have been removed. A buffer was left around some of the more significant trees but not others.

Think that had something to do with it?

 

[OlympicYJ]

It's in the Seattle area in a park. A few years before, the top foot or so of soil was removed and replaced, because it was contaminated by an old smelter. Several other large trees have declined and some have been removed. A buffer was left around some of the more significant trees but not others.

Think that had something to do with it?

I would venture a guess that it did. Any idea what kind of smelter?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[TreeGuyHR]

I would venture a guess that it did. Any idea what kind of smelter?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I believe it was an aluminum smelter. However, the amount of contamination apparently did not affect the trees much. The concern was people using the park being exposed to the contaminated soil.

I am not sure how it was removed. Found some info:

Metro Parks Tacoma > Point Defiance Park

Apparently, work is ongoing and started in 2008 (the ISA PNW conference was in 2010). Main contaminants are arsenic and lead, from a plume that drifted from the defunct ASARCO plant (removed?) across the water on the Tacoma waterfront.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Ah gotcha! Well Al can mess with all kinds of soil properties and isn't good for trees. But thinking about it, the Al wouldn't cause the root rot directly. It could have weakened the tree and exacerbate an underlying condition. If they said the contamination wasn't high enough it probably wasn't.

 

[floyd]

I would hazzard a guess removing a foot of soil will have consequences on a tree. Sounds like not enough root to feed the crown.

 

[Hddnis]

A good ground cover, such as grass, would do more to protect the public using the park than just about any other remediation. Simply moving the soil risks significant air contamination, even with extensive dust control measures. Sounds like the typical "We have a problem!" answered by "I know, we have to throw some money at it! Lets haul all the bad stuff away!" followed by "Hi, I'm an engineer and I could come up with a plan to move that nasty dirt, throw some money my way." and then we hear "I'm a big time public works contractor and I have the expertise to move that awful nasty dirt for you at taxpayer expense."

Vary rarely is moving contaminated soil a good solution when it isn't killing vegitation or wildlife, sometimes even if it is leaving it alone is best. If people using the park is a danger than you close the park until it is safe, which regardless of the contamination will occur in time. But, that is the cheap and common sense way, can't have that spoiling the economy.




Mr. HE