Falling pics 11/25/09

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It was one of those days for logger Wade recently. Makes me feel a little better about the ones that got away on me.

Wow. Don´t know about the angles, but the hinge was realy on the thick side, but more importantly, the jack seems to be of the 10 or at best 15 tons breed. The tree might weigt some 3 or 4 tons, having the centre of gravity some 3, maybe 4 feet behind the hinge (the wide angle lens don´t tell the real truth, I know). But this bet does not seem to be way off. And with like 8" from the jack to the hinge, you do the math, plus add for the stiffness of the hinge. It seems like some 13 to 24 tons of static load, plus the hinge stiffness was loaded there. No way the little jack could survive.
It is easy then to understand why real tree jacks are for 60 or 100 tons...
 
Gologit, that was my weekends work, is that bad?

It’s been -20* C or -4 Fred for a few days, I think looking at it again today, I should have cut the root swell off in front of my notch like I did on the side.
This is the start of my removal of the Ash from my bush. I wasn’t too upset, they’re certainly not veneer quality. Not sure if they will even make saw logs.
 
Looks like Mt Hood maybe active again did you see that last night?

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So you think I should have gone more than a 1/3 of the diameter with my notch?
I thought might back cut might have been too high.

G.O.L. teaches 2/3 the dia for a face cut. Also it didn't appear as though the face was open enough to allow the tree to hit the ground before it closed. The high back cut didn't split the butt. The closed face did.
 
yeah well there are no hard and fast rules to falling timber, GOL teaches hard and fast rules, 1/3 deep on the face 10% on the hold wood, plunge cut every tree.

them rules will get a tree down, but it won't save out the wood, sometimes you have to manipulate the hold wood, sometimes you have to stick with the tree and steer it down, or cut more of the hold wood so it don't pull massive amounts of fiber and ruin the first log. In truth a deeper face cut saves a whole bunch of work when you have to wedge it over, getting you out of the danger zone quicker, and putting less stress on the hold wood, meaning you can get away with less hold wood.

GOL teaches situational awareness, which is good, but it teaches and sets in stone one way to fall a tree, and that is just wrong.

But then I've never been one for choreographed dancing, so the Swedish Stump Dance isn't something you'll see me do very often.
 
I agree, no hard rules. I use what fits the situation. I was using them as an example for hinge width. Do you disagree on that as a general rule of thumb? And they don't say plunge cut every tree. They give the option at your discression on many. Only plunge and leave a back strap on those which won't be wedged. That gives you more escape time than chasing the holding wood. Every time.
 
10% of a 32" doug fir would be just about 3", when in reality you only need or wan't about an inch or an inch and a half

Same thing on a Big Leaf Maple, would need no more then an inch or the damn thing will likely chair

Leave 10% an an alder that is 24" it will for sure chair

GOL claims its a starting point, but in my short time on this rock, I've found most folks only hear the one thing some "expert" tells them and just swallow it as their god's truth, couple this with anyone wearing a suit and tie and they will believe the earth is flat and pigs fly...

Anyway point is, its a noob falling method, that should be used only when needed, rather then being relied upon.
 
Well, we're making a go of it. My buddy and I bought an old circular mill and we're going to see how we do. We set up on my dad's quarter which is 60% mature poplar so we are going to cut and mill it to start. Dad said if we didn't cut it he was just going to clear and burn it so we may as well log and mill it. Anyway, just thought I'd drop in and say hi and that I'm still looking forward to picking up what I can from each of you guys' posts. Every little bit helps keep us new guys safe, so thanks for the info!
 
GOL has it's place. GOL works great for somebody without any real experience. It's designed for the weekend warrior or firewood hack that doesn't spend enough time on the saw to get really comfortable with it.

The bad thing about GOL is that it gives the user a false sense of security. It tells you "if you do this, the tree will do that" and the guy on the saw quits thinking for himself and blindly follows the dogma. Trouble is, the trees didn't take the course. They'll surprise you and every one of them is different.

GOL has never really had any following among loggers, especially on the west coast. Professionals, guys who make their living with a saw, learn how to think for themselves.
 
GOL has it's place. GOL works great for somebody without any real experience. It's designed for the weekend warrior or firewood hack that doesn't spend enough time on the saw to get really comfortable with it.

The bad thing about GOL is that it gives the user a false sense of security. It tells you "if you do this, the tree will do that" and the guy on the saw quits thinking for himself and blindly follows the dogma. Trouble is, the trees didn't take the course. They'll surprise you and every one of them is different.

GOL has never really had any following among loggers, especially on the west coast. Professionals, guys who make their living with a saw, learn how to think for themselves.
PNW training the school of hard knocks beating wedges for an old timer then limbing for him thought that was the Game Of Logging.

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PNW training the school of hard knocks beating wedges for an old timer then limbing for him thought that was the Game Of Logging.

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Yup, that's usually the way it works. I'm not knocking formal education and safety training certainly has it's place but there's no substitute for being taught by an old timer.
Start out packing and beating wedges, gassing and then maybe a little limbing and then probably a lot of limbing and maybe, if you really had it together, you'd get to do some bucking the first year. Second year you'd buck and, under a watchful eye, start falling some of the easier stuff. After that, if you stuck with it and didn't get canned, there was a natural progression to the bigger timber and rougher ground. But always under that eye, at least for the first couple of years.
 
Even a knuckledragging forester like me knows that no two trees are the same, so how could a one-size-fits-all approach to cutting them possibly work? GOL cutting is a trick in the bag for sure, but if it's the only one you've got, you're gonna get in over your head right quick.
 
GOL gives a guideline how to get an "typical, easy average" (regarding height, weight, spread, crown form, lean, slope, soil conditions, temperature...) tree down, usualy the hard and sometimes kinda exhausting way into usualy the easiest direction-but with a bonus of that even someone who knows *rap about wood, its mechanical properties etc. can walk away, or has time to haul his *** out or at least is not directly in the way of the mess as it propagates. GOL was meant as an entry level survival kit for the easy tasks to learn from. But some people, esp. desk rats who have never been with saw on sloped ground, consider it "the only safe practice", because they don´t know a s*it about some of the troubles of real logging, or they make good money on it under the safest and easiest conditions availible.

How GOL and reality in all its width availible comes together can be easily ilustrated on snaging. Snaging-considered (and for a good reason) as the most dangerous falling task. Take a bit leaning oak snag some 50´ in height, perfectly sound and solid, with knotless butt, just the bark peeled off and dry as desert sand. Try the 1/3+1/10 rule with plunging and strap-almost sure the thing won´t even budge. Try to help ´er with wedges-and when it´s freezing, there are chances the barberchair will snap your head off with no warning at all.
This is why GOL emphasizes heavily that snag=hazardous tree=experienced faller job.

I grew up snaging with handsaw-for wood for my projects, for firewood. I taught myself using chainsaw snaging for firewood. Had a GOL instructor seen some things I´ve done, he would´ve tried to stomp me into ground, because every move I did was against GOL. And I swear, had someone try to make me use GOL on some of those trees, he wouldn´t have survived that-because of me wanting to live another day. Pushing GOL as the only possible way and as a "one fits all standard" is kind of equivalent to murder atempt in my books.
BTW, this site and threads like this was real eye opener and I owe at least a beer to most of the contributors. I do not regret any single minute I put into reading all those 460 or so pages back, several years ago.

Northmanlogging is damn spot on. The ash woodfarmer showed with almost barberchaired buttlog is like 16-18". Now imagine the plank GOL considers a safe hinge here-like 10"x2" piece of wood. Or the 32" fir northman mentioned, like 18"x3". Pretty beefy piece of wood, huh? Now try to bend this, but not over some 6´lenght as if using it as a service ramp for your truck, but at kerf width. Or, if you saw off the heartwood in the fir, it makes for spot bending two about 5"x3" posts (most house framing is done with 2"x4"...). Seems absurd? But that is what GOL teaches.
Experienced faller sets the hinge width after asesment of "how thick a plank will support the weight of the tree" and "how thick a plank will bend and shear by the weight of the tree, while standing the abuse of branch contacts and swing forces during fall, without tearing and messing the butt".
I find myself computing with yield and tensile strenghts of the wood under the saw very frequently, with some experience-earned coefficients for soil, season, fungus/rot damage... This needs a helluva lots of falling done, or some combined carpentry and scientific lab background to get an idea about how the wood behaves under different loads and scenarios.
 
G.O.L. teaches 2/3 the dia for a face cut. Also it didn't appear as though the face was open enough to allow the tree to hit the ground before it closed. The high back cut didn't split the butt. The closed face did.
best explained and most common mistake for a chair here yet! when I have pie, I like a huge piece. not over half that's for sure! heavy learners, frost crack/wind damaged timber are a different animal...
 
My bet is if I had done these heavy leaning alders to GOL specs they would of launched me and my saw into a low orbit.
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10% of a 32" doug fir would be just about 3", when in reality you only need or wan't about an inch or an inch and a half

Same thing on a Big Leaf Maple, would need no more then an inch or the damn thing will likely chair

Leave 10% an an alder that is 24" it will for sure chair

GOL claims its a starting point, but in my short time on this rock, I've found most folks only hear the one thing some "expert" tells them and just swallow it as their god's truth, couple this with anyone wearing a suit and tie and they will believe the earth is flat and pigs fly...

Anyway point is, its a noob falling method, that should be used only when needed, rather then being relied upon.

You make a lot of declarative statements about GOL. Ever take a course? I've taken all 4 levels. 10% hinge? Never heard of it. I'll wager your opinions aren't formed by first hand knowledge.
 
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