Falling pics 11/25/09

[madhatte]

if it was too risky to fall & I couldn't use a machine or a safe method I'd just leave it, after all they're still making them & not worth unnecessarily risking ones neck for .

I don't always have that choice. Much of what I cut is for firefighter safety. I don't care at all about saving out volume, or pleasing inspectors, or whatever. Sometimes I do have machinery to work ahead of or under, but not very often. I'll absolutely work under an excavator bucket if it's available but I don't carry one of those around in my back pocket. Usually it's just me and maybe a minimal crew. We make it work with what we've got because that's how things are. Always interested in how to work smarter.

Way too good of a chance of the top breaking out onto the machine. Even with all the forestry steel in the world protecting the cage it's not a great idea.

I watched the very thing happen last fall. Excavator operator was really jamming on a fir snag and the top accordioned back on him, well behind the tree's center of gravity. It hit hard enough to blast all of the glass out of the cab, not by breaking it but by pressurizing the cab and popping it all out of the seals. It was a hell of a hit, and while there were no injuries, the repairs were expensive.

 

[northmanlogging]

Is Bwilderd here again? Is he saying anything sensible enough for me to take him off IGNORE or is it the usual useless blather?

Yes, No, Yes

 

[northmanlogging]

Decision probably depends upon your blood pressure.

Our down under friend doesn’t agree with the risks that our faller friends take in pursuit of their livelihoods.

Personally I see a world of difference between someone making lumber from their own ground and someone engaged to make someone else’s trees into marketable logs. Decision dynamics to leave or cut, how to cut, etc. are different in my thinking.

Ron

Most folks that hire me, are looking to get paid, or looking to have their timber look better. So I take everything that can make them money, or everything that is junk or dangerous. Other jobs, its planning ahead so the woods look better in 30-40 years when they are about to retire, these jobs are the most challenging cause if you screw up, you screw them out of money later.

I don't really get to choose, I can pass on stuff that is really bad, but it doesn't happen often.

I take pride in making money where others can't, my clients generally come out ahead, some jobs not as much as I would like, but junk wood is junk wood.

Too surmise, I'm not cherry picking the easy ones, most folks around here could do that on their own, but luckily most folks know their limits and I stay in work.

 

[Gologit]

Decision probably depends upon your blood pressure.

Our down under friend doesn’t agree with the risks that our faller friends take in pursuit of their livelihoods.

Personally I see a world of difference between someone making lumber from their own ground and someone engaged to make someone else’s trees into marketable logs. Decision dynamics to leave or cut, how to cut, etc. are different in my thinking.

Ron

BP is 130/75. Not bad for an old fart.

Bwildered will never agree with a lot of the things we do. He'd rather argue than learn. His loss.
With that thought in mind I'll let Bitzer and NM deal with him. I like my BP right where it is.

 

[hseII]

I don't always have that choice. Much of what I cut is for firefighter safety. I don't care at all about saving out volume, or pleasing inspectors, or whatever. Sometimes I do have machinery to work ahead of or under, but not very often. I'll absolutely work under an excavator bucket if it's available but I don't carry one of those around in my back pocket. Usually it's just me and maybe a minimal crew. We make it work with what we've got because that's how things are. Always interested in how to work smarter.



I watched the very thing happen last fall. Excavator operator was really jamming on a fir snag and the top accordioned back on him, well behind the tree's center of gravity. It hit hard enough to blast all of the glass out of the cab, not by breaking it but by pressurizing the cab and popping it all out of the seals. It was a hell of a hit, and while there were no injuries, the repairs were expensive.

I’ve used a Hoe to drop trees against their lean, but I’d rather use Rigging.

 

[northmanlogging]

nah bitz he's all yours, can't teach a brick anything but mortar and chisles

 

[madhatte]

I’ve used a Hoe to drop trees against their lean, but I’d rather use Rigging.

We've got a few extra-extra-extra-extra-sketchy ones in people spaces that I won't cut and the operators won't put their machinery under that we're gonna have no choice but to buy rigging for. I'll sleep easier once they're down. Why don't we already have rigging? Because past management preferred not to mess with snags at all, until they started splashing into roads and hitting cars. Now we're playing catch-up. I'm glad to finally be dealing with it, but it's way more dangerous now than it had to be, and it's the fault of risk-averse management passing the problem off to the next generation. Ain't new, I know, but it's real, and it's what we're dealing with.

 

[hseII]

We've got a few extra-extra-extra-extra-sketchy ones in people spaces that I won't cut and the operators won't put their machinery under that we're gonna have no choice but to buy rigging for. I'll sleep easier once they're down. Why don't we already have rigging? Because past management preferred not to mess with snags at all, until they started splashing into roads and hitting cars. Now we're playing catch-up. I'm glad to finally be dealing with it, but it's way more dangerous now than it had to be, and it's the fault of risk-averse management passing the problem off to the next generation. Ain't new, I know, but it's real, and it's what we're dealing with.

I Agree 100%.

These trees were dead last year: they are still dead this year. [emoji57]

See the Pool.

 

[bitzer]

I

BP is 130/75. Not bad for an old fart.

Bwildered will never agree with a lot of the things we do. He'd rather argue than learn. His loss.
With that thought in mind I'll let Bitzer and NM deal with him. I like my BP right where it is.

He's the type of guy that knows how to do everything better then you but hes too good to show you like he's got some secret up his sleeve no one knows. It's kind of fun messing with him when I'm bored though.

 

[bitzer]

I don't always have that choice. Much of what I cut is for firefighter safety. I don't care at all about saving out volume, or pleasing inspectors, or whatever. Sometimes I do have machinery to work ahead of or under, but not very often. I'll absolutely work under an excavator bucket if it's available but I don't carry one of those around in my back pocket. Usually it's just me and maybe a minimal crew. We make it work with what we've got because that's how things are. Always interested in how to work smarter.



I watched the very thing happen last fall. Excavator operator was really jamming on a fir snag and the top accordioned back on him, well behind the tree's center of gravity. It hit hard enough to blast all of the glass out of the cab, not by breaking it but by pressurizing the cab and popping it all out of the seals. It was a hell of a hit, and while there were no injuries, the repairs were expensive.

Snags are trouble no matter how they get dealt with but adding extra forces to me seems a bad idea when there are people under them. Do you guys ever get to blow up snags?

 

[northmanlogging]

Snags are trouble no matter how they get dealt with but adding extra forces to me seems a bad idea when there are people under them. Do you guys ever get to blow up snags?

A pull line with light but firm pressure werks pretty good, especially some of these fancy rigging ropes the arboristas use, acts like a big rubber band.

Tie it to a decent winch and move the world.

If they are real bad then there is no choice but climb em or bucket truck and chunk em down.

I don't mind being under snags... much...
Just have to show them a little more respect and have good escape paths,

 

[madhatte]

These trees were dead last year: they are still dead this year.

Ain't that the truth!

Do you guys ever get to blow up snags?

I freakin' wish. The EOD guys don't have time to mess with our problems, and we don't have the authorization, but there is some noise being made about sending a few of us to get the training. Ain't holding my breath. We'll see how it works out.

Tie it to a decent winch and move the world.

That's pretty much my whole plan right there. Get back out of harm's way and pull until something breaks, and then clean up the mess.

 

[northmanlogging]

Tie it off, cripple it, vacate, winch er over

 

[madhatte]

My thoughts exactly.

 

[hseII]

A pull line with light but firm pressure werks pretty good, especially some of these fancy rigging ropes the arboristas use, acts like a big rubber band.

Tie it to a decent winch and move the world.

If they are real bad then there is no choice but climb em or bucket truck and chunk em down.

I don't mind being under snags... much...
Just have to show them a little more respect and have good escape paths,

It’s amazing what a MA 5:1, some some Prussiks, & some Rigging rated Biners can do with a solid bull rope.

 

[madhatte]

Good old mechanical advantage wins every time!

 

[Frank Savage]

A pull line with light but firm pressure werks pretty good, especially some of these fancy rigging ropes the arboristas use, acts like a big rubber band.

I don't mind being under snags... much...
Just have to show them a little more respect and have good escape paths,

Rookie arbo (well, of the removal kind mostly) here... My thinking exactly. Not going snagging without trusty 4:1 "pocket hoist" and one pulley to make it 8:1 if needed somewhere handy, at least in the car. Five yards worth of 600# pull (or half the travel at 1200#] can move lots of things to the bright side of the day.
The 3/4" and 7/8" kinds of marine double braid ropes work also wonders for the purpose of "light, but firm rubber band".

Show them a little more respect, have good escape path-plus:
-cut the backcut with pull side of the bar as exclusively as possible (hail the fullwraps!)
-and once you think it might start to loose first signs of equlibrium during backcut, whenever remotely possible, have one (gloveless if possible) hand on the stem, on the wood (not bark remmants or rotten fibrous stuff). Far better than eyes and ears combined. Tells the truth right the moment someting starts to move, even if not falling to smack yer´ top knot.
Funny line here-when getting into this, I had several "near underwear change calls" because of other trees twigs tapping the snag in the light wind gust, squirrel bailing out, small birds I didn´t notice coming to see the noisy jerk and alike.

 

[Bwildered]

I don't always have that choice. Much of what I cut is for firefighter safety. I don't care at all about saving out volume, or pleasing inspectors, or whatever. Sometimes I do have machinery to work ahead of or under, but not very often. I'll absolutely work under an excavator bucket if it's available but I don't carry one of those around in my back pocket. Usually it's just me and maybe a minimal crew. We make it work with what we've got because that's how things are. Always interested in how to work smarter.


I watched the very thing happen last fall. Excavator operator was really jamming on a fir snag and the top accordioned back on him, well behind the tree's center of gravity. It hit hard enough to blast all of the glass out of the cab, not by breaking it but by pressurizing the cab and popping it all out of the seals. It was a hell of a hit, and while there were no injuries, the repairs were expensive.

Everyone has the choice to leave something that's too risky, only the cowboy gypo's think otherwise

Obviously the excavator operator should have left it alone

 

[rwoods]

Hindsight is usually clearer, but should not be used as the exclusive view to judge one's decisions. Ron

 

[Bwildered]

Do you have any paperwork or photographic evidence to support your claims?


I just found this- Australian provincial code 799.6675C- an operator must have a minimum of 7 years snogging experience to apply for a snigging license. Are you snigging without a license Reggie Smith?

What claims blitzer? You're the one reading direct from the gypo's handbook on how not to do something & some imaginary code!