Yes, the Blue Plastic 660 kits had improvements, I can't comment on the 440 kits, have not had a Blue one.
Farmertec ms440 for firewood saw?
- Thread starter JoshNY
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Here is some information I posted to another site that you will find useful if you want to build a Asian 440 kit:
As many have pointed out before, these Asian kits are fun, but they require your attention and a lot of extra time. If you don't enjoy solving puzzles, don't bother!
So far I have done the following tasks that would not be necessary on an OEM saw:
1) Modified the case so the drift pin can not float through and into the clutch (hammer and screw driver to crimp the end of the hole).
2) Shortened the nipple for the impulse line. Used a file and a drill bit, and kept crap from coming through by sticking a pipe cleaner in the end of it, then running it through.
3) Put an OEM Elastostart rope and Handle on the starter.
4) Added some mass to the choke lever on the control lever so it will activate replacement carb chokes (lightly sand and add PL Premium).
5) I will replace the carb with one from DDave, the ones that come with these kits are just not worth playing with.
6) Used OEM piston pin bearing.
7) Will use the New West BB kit (P,C, Rings, Clips, Pin) I like what comes in that kit. (But the cylinder needs lots of port work)
8) The large chain adjuster gear did not fit in the case, so I chocked it in the drill and filed it down. The chain adjuster still would not work, so I put a washer under the large gear to shim it up and align it with the small gear axle. Of course the washers with large enough holes to fit over the post are too large, so I took a smaller one and drilled the center larger. Seems to work real well now, I was pleased!
9) Add washers to the upper vibration damper, OEM dampers are thicker. I will also make sure the handle does not put any stress on the saw to defeat this modification (I often open the bend in the handle just a bit to accomplish this).
#10 is to glue the plastic cap to the decomp, other than that, I like how they work. I mark them with silver ink after I do it so I know it is done. I glue it with PL Premium, none of my pistons will get eaten by a decomp that lost it's cap!
#11 Check that you have the correct Brake Flag, and even when you do, drill the hole through with a 13/64 drill bit. Otherwise, you will not get that brake flag over the pin. The drill bit fits in the hole in the outside, but not on the inside! Sorry the one pic is a blur!
I also took a pic of my control lever mod for the choke (see #4).
The elves were busy last night! I have to walk the dogs, but she is ready to fire now!
As many have pointed out before, these Asian kits are fun, but they require your attention and a lot of extra time. If you don't enjoy solving puzzles, don't bother!
So far I have done the following tasks that would not be necessary on an OEM saw:
1) Modified the case so the drift pin can not float through and into the clutch (hammer and screw driver to crimp the end of the hole).
2) Shortened the nipple for the impulse line. Used a file and a drill bit, and kept crap from coming through by sticking a pipe cleaner in the end of it, then running it through.
3) Put an OEM Elastostart rope and Handle on the starter.
4) Added some mass to the choke lever on the control lever so it will activate replacement carb chokes (lightly sand and add PL Premium).
5) I will replace the carb with one from DDave, the ones that come with these kits are just not worth playing with.
6) Used OEM piston pin bearing.
7) Will use the New West BB kit (P,C, Rings, Clips, Pin) I like what comes in that kit. (But the cylinder needs lots of port work)
8) The large chain adjuster gear did not fit in the case, so I chocked it in the drill and filed it down. The chain adjuster still would not work, so I put a washer under the large gear to shim it up and align it with the small gear axle. Of course the washers with large enough holes to fit over the post are too large, so I took a smaller one and drilled the center larger. Seems to work real well now, I was pleased!
9) Add washers to the upper vibration damper, OEM dampers are thicker. I will also make sure the handle does not put any stress on the saw to defeat this modification (I often open the bend in the handle just a bit to accomplish this).
#10 is to glue the plastic cap to the decomp, other than that, I like how they work. I mark them with silver ink after I do it so I know it is done. I glue it with PL Premium, none of my pistons will get eaten by a decomp that lost it's cap!
#11 Check that you have the correct Brake Flag, and even when you do, drill the hole through with a 13/64 drill bit. Otherwise, you will not get that brake flag over the pin. The drill bit fits in the hole in the outside, but not on the inside! Sorry the one pic is a blur!
I also took a pic of my control lever mod for the choke (see #4).
The elves were busy last night! I have to walk the dogs, but she is ready to fire now!
drf255
BAD CAD
Short answer is NO.
Many of us that have built many many saws has problems within the kits. Unless you have assembled a lot of saws, I’d steer clear.
Mike has a huge knowledge of the 1128 Stihls. What is a simple fix for him isn’t as easy for others. He can grab a quick part when he needs it and make a field repair many can’t do so easily. He also can grab one of his other 10-15 1128 Stihl to finish the job.
I think you’re gonna have a saw with more problems than you want. There is really no place for them. People who know there saws enough to fix them don’t need them and novices can’t fix them.
I’d tell ya to buy a used OEM saw, but that’s not what you want to hear.
Many of us that have built many many saws has problems within the kits. Unless you have assembled a lot of saws, I’d steer clear.
Mike has a huge knowledge of the 1128 Stihls. What is a simple fix for him isn’t as easy for others. He can grab a quick part when he needs it and make a field repair many can’t do so easily. He also can grab one of his other 10-15 1128 Stihl to finish the job.
I think you’re gonna have a saw with more problems than you want. There is really no place for them. People who know there saws enough to fix them don’t need them and novices can’t fix them.
I’d tell ya to buy a used OEM saw, but that’s not what you want to hear.
dswensen
ArboristSite Guru
I disagree that there is "no place" for these Chinese copies. I have too many OEM saws, and I have built several of these kits in different sizes. I didn't build the kits because I needed a saw to work with, I built them for the fun/puzzle/challenge/learning opportunities. This is their "place".
I don't and won't get into the whole "Chinese ripoff of the designs" debate.
Where people go wrong over and over (and I read a LOT on this site like many of you) is that they think that they are getting a "deal" on a Stihl or Husky quality saw, and then they gripe when that's not the quality they get. If you go in to one of these kits knowing that this is NOT an OEM quality saw you are building, you are much more in touch with reality.
You just can't compare the quality of the finished kit to the quality of the OEM saw. Yes, they are clones, but the materials and workmanship should not and cannot be said to be the same.
If my livelihood depended on my saws, I would not depend on one of these kit saws. However, if you have the time, resources, and inclination for a fun puzzle/challenge that CAN be frustrating, but will actually leave you with a casual tool that you can use till it craps out - go for it.
I'm glad I built these saws - I learned a lot about saw mechanics making them run. I'd do it again. But when I take one of these kits saws out for a day of firewood cutting, I always take an OEM saw as a backup.
drf255
BAD CAD
The OP owns one other saw it seems. They are valuable as a puzzle, I agree with you there. Also agree that most gripes are from those who don’t understand that you get what you pay for.
My point is that none of us would grab the “puzzle” first when we had to go out and do work with a saw-that is if we were only allowed to take one and had to get the job done.
When I added up what I put into mine, it’s was easily over $500. I just wouldn’t do it again. The only parts that were “right” in the kit was the top cover.
Opinions will vary, as they should.
My point is that none of us would grab the “puzzle” first when we had to go out and do work with a saw-that is if we were only allowed to take one and had to get the job done.
When I added up what I put into mine, it’s was easily over $500. I just wouldn’t do it again. The only parts that were “right” in the kit was the top cover.
Opinions will vary, as they should.
JoshNY
ArboristSite Operative
440s in my area are few and far between. Even tired used ones that will need a rebuild seem to be going for $400.
Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
JoshNY
ArboristSite Operative
To the folks who have built and used these saws, after the build and working out the initial quirks, do your saws seem reliable?
I understand there are a few initial issues, but once they are togeather and tuned and running good, do they seem so hold up decent?
I am well aware I am getting Chinese parts and not a German or US made stihl.
Honestly, since it is a copy of a pro saw, and I will not be using it as hard as a pro would, if it runs 70 or 80 percent of the hours a stihl would before a rebuild, I would be satisfied.
Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
I understand there are a few initial issues, but once they are togeather and tuned and running good, do they seem so hold up decent?
I am well aware I am getting Chinese parts and not a German or US made stihl.
Honestly, since it is a copy of a pro saw, and I will not be using it as hard as a pro would, if it runs 70 or 80 percent of the hours a stihl would before a rebuild, I would be satisfied.
Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
With constant repair you might get in the area of 20% of a OEM saw longevity.
JoshNY
ArboristSite Operative
I think if you take care of them don't force the chain adjusters, etc, run good oil at 40:1 (I like AMSOIL Sabre) they will hold up well for you.
Keep in mind I'm running the New West P+C, and always an OEM piston pin bearing, and I flush the Asian bearings w/WD 40 before I even turn them.
I would prefer an OEM 440, but they are just too hard to find around here. I have not had any bottom ends fail on me.
Keep in mind I'm running the New West P+C, and always an OEM piston pin bearing, and I flush the Asian bearings w/WD 40 before I even turn them.
I would prefer an OEM 440, but they are just too hard to find around here. I have not had any bottom ends fail on me.
I don`t build them but have watched ,read and been in correspondence with many that have built these clones and the only half decent pieces of these kits are the crankcases and the plastic covers, the fuel bits, rubber parts self destruct, the moving parts are piss poor quality and either wear prematurely or outright break, electronics are so hit and miss a module might last a year or one outing. Not a machine anyone wanting reliability would want unless one has a stock of replacement parts, almost every part excluding the ones I posted as usable/passable, already in their possession. Something to toy around with, well maybe but for me I build OEM ones cheaper and they will last, over half of my 45 saw fleet came from saws I rebuilt with OEM parts.
JoshNY
ArboristSite Operative
No offense, but since MustangMike has actually built one and seems to be having good luck, I'll take his word over someone that has no first hand experience with one.
Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
I have not had any coils fail, and I previously stated the 440 carbs were crap and I replace them (for $20). You just have to build up the choke lever on the control lever a bit (sand it and apply PL Premium) to get the choke work right. (Or use OEM).
It is a lot of work, but it can be done. I also lube the control lever with Fluid Film before I even move them.
I would only buy them when there is a good sale going on.
It is a lot of work, but it can be done. I also lube the control lever with Fluid Film before I even move them.
I would only buy them when there is a good sale going on.
DSW
Addicted to ArboristSite
You're in $300 for a replica 440 with a ton of hours and labor on your part and very little resale.
Mike just gave you a laundry list that would make my head spin. Even the hours figuring out the problem and running to the dealership and then waiting on parts etc.... It adds up.
Don't get me wrong if I wanted to build a saw I would pick up a Chinese 372 and not feel one bit of remorse but if you're trying to say it's such a great deal the guys with experience are saying it's not.
You seem dead set on building one so I'm not sure what the hang up is.
By all means, fill your boots and have at it, its your money and time, just take all the posts here for what you payed for them. You seem dead set on getting one, might as well get on with it.
JoshNY
ArboristSite Operative
Well, I just did it, ordered the blue ms440 kit direct from huztl. $234.69 for the complete kit, shipped to my door.
I've read up on these on several forums.
Most people that have built them have had to do a few mods, similar to mustangmike.
Doesn't appear there are many major issues. Carbs seem hit or miss, some seem to work fine, others give them fits. I'll try it and if it fights me, I'll get the one MustangMike recommends.
I can't find any complaints from the builders about the coil, so I don't think that will be an issue.
I may end up getting one piston pin circlips and bearing. I want to see what comes with the kit first.
Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
I've read up on these on several forums.
Most people that have built them have had to do a few mods, similar to mustangmike.
Doesn't appear there are many major issues. Carbs seem hit or miss, some seem to work fine, others give them fits. I'll try it and if it fights me, I'll get the one MustangMike recommends.
I can't find any complaints from the builders about the coil, so I don't think that will be an issue.
I may end up getting one piston pin circlips and bearing. I want to see what comes with the kit first.
Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
Often the lead wire on the coil needs to be shortened, they use the same coil on a lot of models. Just measure it up and unscrew it from the coil end, cut it, and re screw it in, it is easy.
I use a HF heat gun to heat the bearings for inserting the crank. Always protect the seals first with Grease or Vaseline (protection from the heat and friction). I do the flywheel side first, with two 1.5" square pieces of wood under the case. Make sure the rod is in the open section of the case. I tap the crank lightly with a hammer, goes right in. Then insert the 2 pins and gasket and heat the other bearing and start it on. (Don't over heat it, that one has a nylon bearing that will melt). 30 seconds is all I do. Once the case hits the alignment pins it usually stops, so I start the 5 case bots (w/Loctite) and use a torque pattern to slowly bring it down (setting my DeWalt drill on #5 works well for this). If it seem to stick, tap it lightly with the hammer. I then grease an insert the cranks sleeve last so it does not damage the seal. I then tap the crank on each end a few times with the hammer till is really spins freely.
I use a HF heat gun to heat the bearings for inserting the crank. Always protect the seals first with Grease or Vaseline (protection from the heat and friction). I do the flywheel side first, with two 1.5" square pieces of wood under the case. Make sure the rod is in the open section of the case. I tap the crank lightly with a hammer, goes right in. Then insert the 2 pins and gasket and heat the other bearing and start it on. (Don't over heat it, that one has a nylon bearing that will melt). 30 seconds is all I do. Once the case hits the alignment pins it usually stops, so I start the 5 case bots (w/Loctite) and use a torque pattern to slowly bring it down (setting my DeWalt drill on #5 works well for this). If it seem to stick, tap it lightly with the hammer. I then grease an insert the cranks sleeve last so it does not damage the seal. I then tap the crank on each end a few times with the hammer till is really spins freely.
Frogge
New Member
A Farmertec 440 was the first kit saw I built. Replaced the pawls and pawl clip in the recoil, installed a pin on the brake bad, replaced the factory dead coil with a working one, and threw out the decomp. Aside from that it was 100% as supplied parts. Spent a few hours deburring and scraping parts before assembly. With a 24" bar it ran quite well and was easy to start and run.
No long term testing available as some asshat stole it from my truck while I was in the office.
No long term testing available as some asshat stole it from my truck while I was in the office.
Two of my kits were shipped with the wrong brake flag. Dr Al and I spent more than an hour trying to get the damn thing to work till we realized it was the wrong one.
The one on the left is correct, the one on the right will never work. Don't know what saw it is for, but it is not for a 440! (difference is on the right hand side, where the linkage goes in).
The one on the left is correct, the one on the right will never work. Don't know what saw it is for, but it is not for a 440! (difference is on the right hand side, where the linkage goes in).
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