Federal Airtight 264CCL Questions

[Wood Doctor]

Justin, I still think you can drill out that center portion that is still imbedded. Start by using a small drill bit (say 1/8") and then work your way up to one that is 1/16" less than the size of the bolt, reaming out as you go. That will leave the threads intact.

Remember that anytime you buy used equipment, you have to be in a position to fix somebody else's problems that they could not fix. That's why they unloaded the equipment.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Justin, I still think you can drill out that center portion that is still imbedded. Start by using a small drill bit (say 1/8") and then work your way up to one that is 1/16" less than the size of the bolt, reaming out as you go. That will leave the threads intact.

Remember that anytime you buy used equipment, you have to be in a position to fix somebody else's problems that they could not fix. That's why they unloaded the equipment.

Thanks, I'll give it a shot, some of the bolts are sticking out and will likely be much harder to drill. Luckily the latch one is broken off inside the hole a bit. I didn't buy it used though, just inherited it with the house. I would be more awesome if my home warranty covered this. Resorting this stove will be a good project, I just wish it wasn't winter when tackling it!


I think I might hit the bolts with some penetrating oil like PB Blaster or something and let it soak in for a day before attempting to drill them out.

 

[ngzcaz]

If the doors are cast iron, you'll need a decent welder. Cast can be really tricky. Some guys claim it can't be welded. It can but...... much easier is to get high temp sealant ( black stuff ) or JB weld it if thats what you want to do. Sealing the doors is by far the cheapest. I'd try to fire it and see where you are. The cat makes the wood last 20 to 30 percent longer and burn much hotter temps in the stove.

I think I saw a post that a cat could be had for around $ 30.00 If that's true, jump on it and tell me where it is. That cat goes for around $ 125.00.

 

[bsearcey]

I agree that the doors could be permanently sealed, but like you said I would fix them. It does make it easier to access the inside of the stove for maintenance.

I doubt PB blaster would do you much good now. May have helped before you snapped the heads off :hmm3grin2orange:. Unless there is enough bolt sticking out to get a grip on with pliers, you'd be better off taking a dremel tool and cutting the bolt flush with the hole before drilling out. That is unless you get access to a drill press. Then is shouldn't matter because you have a lot more control of the bit.

 

[Justintoxicated]

I agree that the doors could be permanently sealed, but like you said I would fix them. It does make it easier to access the inside of the stove for maintenance.

I doubt PB blaster would do you much good now. May have helped before you snapped the heads off :hmm3grin2orange:. Unless there is enough bolt sticking out to get a grip on with pliers, you'd be better off taking a dremel tool and cutting the bolt flush with the hole before drilling out. That is unless you get access to a drill press. Then is shouldn't matter because you have a lot more control of the bit.

Yea, thats pretty much what I was thinking. I would love to use this project as an excuse to buy a drill press, I just purchased my first real bench vise not too long ago, cause they are the most handy tool ever. I have wanted one for years, and needed one MANY times, but theres no place for such things when renting a room (it was already filled with tools under the bed and in the closet and dresser drawers). Maybe it will have to get added to my Christmas list, if I can wait that long.

 

[Justintoxicated]

So I picked up a box of cheap kawasaki titanium coated bit at costco and tried to drill out the latch hole. It was allot of work! I only have cordless drills and my Hitachi went through 4 lithium battery charges to drill out the bolt.

Whatever the bolt was made of is super strong and it took a couple hours to drill through it. Unfortunately I was about a millimeter off when done. Actually I'm not what I can call done. What happened was that there was still part of the bolt sticking out the back (a little less than a millimeter thick. I could not really grab it to turn it, but I ended up tapping it inward with a screwdriver and hammer. A chunk of it broke off and I could see the threads in the cast iron. So it appears I ruined the thread on one side of the inner wall of the threaded hole, and on the other side of the wall about 1/2 the length of the hole there is still original bolt material in there.

I can get pics if it would help, but I guess the realistic solution is that I will have to drill the hole out a size larger. However the handle parts are only available for the origional size So I don't see how this is going to work now.
http://www.blackswanhome.com/product/door-latch-assembly-consolidated-dutchwest

I'm wondering if a Helicoil would work? It would make it a ##### to use the door, that for sure, but it would probably still be possible to unlatch it for maintenance. or is there a simpler fix? I say this because if you have ever used one of these, they really grab the bolt hard, so it would likely be hard to turn.


For the remaining 6 bolts I think I should be able to simply (or not so simply) drill them out and tap for a larger size. Then all I will need is new air tubes, combuster, gasket kit, and that steel plate from a welders shop.

Drill press is now on the TOP of my x-mas list haha. Sure would make thing allot easier! What do you all prefer, bench top or free standing?

 

[Justintoxicated]

Well, I'm still not sure how to fix the door, I tested putting in the busted part of the latch and having threads on 1/2 the hole actually seemed to be enough to keep the latch in place and still screw it in. I would like to fix it properly though.

I got the baffle off (and yea the screw broke but it needs to be replaced anyways).

2010-12-05-21-36-42-370 by Glamisduner, on Flickr

Here are the air tubes, I found these for $60. Should I replace these as well or does this look like it will work well enough?

2010-12-05-21-38-24-218 by Glamisduner, on Flickr

 

[bsearcey]

Sounds like you're making progress. Maybe for the door latch you can over drill the hole and then insert a piece of steel tube into the drilled out portion, which could then be tapped. I'm sure there are cement/glues that could be used when inserting the steel tubing to make sure it bonds to the cast. Just a thought, have no idea if that could work.

Where are the air tubes from? Are they intentionally staggered? I don't have anything like them on my stove. I know my stove (first generation Federal Airtight) doesn't not have a third air control for the combustor. I've been seriously trying to think of a way to fabricate something so that I can add a air supply directly to the cat. When you start putting things back together could you take some pictures of that (combuster air control, air control tube, air control tubes you show in your pic, and where they are mounted in relation to the cat). The little diagrams I find online, don't give me enough information to work on.

Looking good though.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Sounds like you're making progress. Maybe for the door latch you can over drill the hole and then insert a piece of steel tube into the drilled out portion, which could then be tapped. I'm sure there are cement/glues that could be used when inserting the steel tubing to make sure it bonds to the cast. Just a thought, have no idea if that could work.

Where are the air tubes from? Are they intentionally staggered? I don't have anything like them on my stove. I know my stove (first generation Federal Airtight) doesn't not have a third air control for the combustor. I've been seriously trying to think of a way to fabricate something so that I can add a air supply directly to the cat. When you start putting things back together could you take some pictures of that (combuster air control, air control tube, air control tubes you show in your pic, and where they are mounted in relation to the cat). The little diagrams I find online, don't give me enough information to work on.

Looking good though.

The air tubes are staggered, but probably differently than mine, parts of these ones had inches of 1/2 disintegrated tubes! The air control tubes are located just under the combuster and above the baffle. The control valve is just like all the other air controls, and basically leads to a metal manifold with a rectangular slot in one end where the straight (non disintegrated) portion of the air tubes fit into. The air tubes are mounted by the 2 tabs shown in the picture using the same screws that hold the baffle in place. The staggered end is basically there to help diffuse fresh air to different parts of the combuster, rather than have it all rush in from one side (the left side in my model).

Basically what you would need to do is drill and tap a hole above the loading door and below the upper vents, create a (sheet metal?) box like manifold with a slot in one end, and insert the air tubes into the slot.

I'm not sure how exactly you would go about the conversion I can try to take some more pics though.

What you described in your fix is basically the idea with a heli-coil, but there would be no need for a steel tube, or epoxy. I think that is the route I am going to go, although even the hole with threads on only one side seems to work fine. if only I could get the rest of the bolt out... I think I may wait until I buy a drill press so I can keep the hole centered, this is much to difficult to do with a hand drill now that the hole is already slightly off center. When I have attempted this before I typically find the remains of the bolt will come out, this one is seriously galled up.

 

[Myknlin]

Fan forced Federal airtight....HELP!!!

Hi...Bought an old home in the arizona high desert,it has a Federal Airtight stove inserted into the old fireplace.Works great! For years,no problems...But now the fan motor is giving up the ghost...big time. Have maintained it and cleaned it the last few years,but it's finally stopped running. I called i think to Tennesee,the Mfgr's name on the fan-no longer in existence,...boohoo. Question-does anyone make this fan as a reproduction?It's got a high-low switch. Also want to share that I collect woodstoves,we have a "Dan Patch Oak' in kitchen,made in New Athens,Illinois,and a Sears and Roebuck potbelly,pretty old,made in Chicago,in use in bedroom.Have several in garage,but can't recall brand names right now,two are little "parlor stoves".One is a cook stove with "Surprise" (brand name) on door.Anyway,our F-A is a box type,with heavy plate attachments covering old fireplace inlet...sure don't want to take it out,takes two big guys just to SLIDE IT across floor!!!: Would love to hear from some folks knowledgable of F-A. and its' parts.Myknlin.

 

[bsearcey]

Yeah that's pretty much what I thought looking at the diagrams on blackswan, but some pictures from the inside of an actual stove would be very helpful.

Thanks.

 

[bsearcey]

Hi...Bought an old home in the arizona high desert,it has a Federal Airtight stove inserted into the old fireplace.Works great! For years,no problems...But now the fan motor is giving up the ghost...big time. Have maintained it and cleaned it the last few years,but it's finally stopped running. I called i think to Tennesee,the Mfgr's name on the fan-no longer in existence,...boohoo. Question-does anyone make this fan as a reproduction?It's got a high-low switch. Also want to share that I collect woodstoves,we have a "Dan Patch Oak' in kitchen,made in New Athens,Illinois,and a Sears and Roebuck potbelly,pretty old,made in Chicago,in use in bedroom.Have several in garage,but can't recall brand names right now,two are little "parlor stoves".One is a cook stove with "Surprise" (brand name) on door.Anyway,our F-A is a box type,with heavy plate attachments covering old fireplace inlet...sure don't want to take it out,takes two big guys just to SLIDE IT across floor!!!: Would love to hear from some folks knowledgable of F-A. and its' parts.Myknlin.

Hey Myknlin, welcome to the thread. I replaced my original blower. Whatever you do don't buy it from someone selling it specifically for your stove. You'll pay upwards of $200. I got the exact same for for around $70. I can't recall the model #, but I'll post it and where I bought it from later.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Hi...Bought an old home in the arizona high desert,it has a Federal Airtight stove inserted into the old fireplace.Works great! For years,no problems...But now the fan motor is giving up the ghost...big time. Have maintained it and cleaned it the last few years,but it's finally stopped running. I called i think to Tennesee,the Mfgr's name on the fan-no longer in existence,...boohoo. Question-does anyone make this fan as a reproduction?It's got a high-low switch. Also want to share that I collect woodstoves,we have a "Dan Patch Oak' in kitchen,made in New Athens,Illinois,and a Sears and Roebuck potbelly,pretty old,made in Chicago,in use in bedroom.Have several in garage,but can't recall brand names right now,two are little "parlor stoves".One is a cook stove with "Surprise" (brand name) on door.Anyway,our F-A is a box type,with heavy plate attachments covering old fireplace inlet...sure don't want to take it out,takes two big guys just to SLIDE IT across floor!!!: Would love to hear from some folks knowledgable of F-A. and its' parts.Myknlin.

Don't give up on the fan motor just yet. It may quit and not kick on, but the bearings need lubricating with some light duty oil, such as 5w20 or ATF. In time, these bearings "freeze" up, and all they need is some lube. Give that a try, before you drop big bucks on a new blower. I did just that and mine still works after 23 years.

You will need to remove the motor from the stove and remove the squirrel cage housing to get to the bearings.

 

[bsearcey]

Definitely give Docs method a try. Apparently the older electric motors are far superior than what is made today. They can withstand more use and abuse because they were built beter. At least this is what I've been told.

The wiring in my motor had dry rotted, and would have cost more to get properly fixed then to order a new motor. So I opted for new. If your motor is too far gone, this is the blower that should work with all FA224, 264, and maybe 288.

Fasco Model #50748-D500
http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/fasco/fasco_blower.htm

You don't need to modify or mess with the bolt holes. They match up with the stove exactly. Most importantly it is way cheaper then if you bought one through a retailer that is selling it as a blower for our stoves.

If you haven't been using a blower, be prepared for the noise. I'm not talking airplane propeller, but a constant whirring. I've gotten used to it now and don't even really recognize it unless I think about it.

Good luck.

 

[raybonz]

catalytic bypass rope gasket

Hello Again!
I noticed I have no rope gasket where my catalytic damper contacts the stove and I need to know if it should seal the entire opening.. I have searched the internet and found no pics or info confirming this.. I have read it takes 3/8" rope gasket I just don't know if it seals the entire area the damper seals against (I suspect it should cover the entire opening).. Thanx for any info!

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

Ray. I've scratched my head about this one myself. I've looked at the damper plate and where it sits when closed and there does not appear to be a grove that the gasket would sit in. For my stove I just chaulked it up to being an 83 model, which doesn't seem to have alot of the features that stoves build after 86 does.

I would assume you are right, but would expect there to be a grove that the gasket goes in and the cement. Take a close look and you should be able to tell how much they intend to be gasketed.

 

[raybonz]

Ray. I've scratched my head about this one myself. I've looked at the damper plate and where it sits when closed and there does not appear to be a grove that the gasket would sit in. For my stove I just chaulked it up to being an 83 model, which doesn't seem to have alot of the features that stoves build after 86 does.

I would assume you are right, but would expect there to be a grove that the gasket goes in and the cement. Take a close look and you should be able to tell how much they intend to be gasketed.

Thanx for the reply! There is a small groove and I am 99% sure there should be a gasket there.. Hope all is well with you and happy holidays!

Ray

 

[raybonz]

I got the back grate out it was a lot harder than I thought it would be! Here Some Pictures. Sorry for the quality, it was dark and I took them with my cellphone. I may replace them with better one later.


FA264CCL Back Grate by Glamisduner, on Flickr
There were squatters living int he house before we bought it, perhaps this is a result from one of their fires? I dunno but this looks even worse now that I pulled it out!


2010-11-30_22-33-20_49 by Glamisduner, on Flickr


FA264CCL Baffle by Glamisduner, on Flickr
Baffle is destroyed and needs to be replaced.


FA264CCL Combustor by Glamisduner, on Flickr
Looks Pretty bad but is it? I don't have any experience with these stoves.


FA264CCL Left Door by Glamisduner, on Flickr
2 of the bolt heads had snapped off already, I removed the third bolt (which also snapped off) because the window/metal piece needed a new gasket. The metal window piece is broken itself where one of the bolts hold it to the door. I'm guessing a washer might be able to fix this though.


2010-11-30_22-29-08_848 by Glamisduner, on Flickr
Right Side Door where handle attachment was busted off. It was permanently stuck closed. I tried to grab the latch mechanism from the inside, and it busted off on that side as well. So the threaded part is stuck in the door. The other side of it looks similar to the left door, but I didn't bother to remove the bolts because I know they will just snap off. Not sure how I could re-gasket this without removing the metal window piece.


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So is my project doomed? I feel terrible for taking this apart because now that the latch is actually busted off the end of the door. There is no way to use this stove. At least it worked before I took it apart...

Give up now? Get a new Stove (I won't have any funds in the foreseeable future though). Luckily I still have the furnace, although its quite expensive to heat the whole house with it. At least it's not snowing here I guess.

All I can say is WOW that's the most severely overfired fa264 I have ever seen! I would be concerned about using it again after that sort of abuse.. Are you still working on it and if so how is the battle going?

Good Luck!

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

Thanx for the reply! There is a small groove and I am 99% sure there should be a gasket there.. Hope all is well with you and happy holidays!

Ray

Same to you. I'm still uncertain about having a gasket there, even though I know the manual talks about it. There are some really hot flames and exhaust going up through that area. I have my doubts whether the gasket/cement would hold for any extended period of time. Also on my stove if I have a good strong fire and draft going the flames can get pulled up through the hole and out into the T at the back of the stove. I can see that gasket getting sucked right off. Anyway, I guess you'll never know until you try.

 

[raybonz]

Same to you. I'm still uncertain about having a gasket there, even though I know the manual talks about it. There are some really hot flames and exhaust going up through that area. I have my doubts whether the gasket/cement would hold for any extended period of time. Also on my stove if I have a good strong fire and draft going the flames can get pulled up through the hole and out into the T at the back of the stove. I can see that gasket getting sucked right off. Anyway, I guess you'll never know until you try.

Will check it out when I am off next week... That stuff can take more heat than you think Brandon.. Most of the heat is at the cat and it rises up and over the damper door ... The manual says it should have it and yours probably should too.. Unburned smoke will create creosote and waste fuel too..

Ray