Federal Airtight 264CCL Questions

[bsearcey]

Will check it out when I am off next week... That stuff can take more heat than you think Brandon.. Most of the heat is at the cat and it rises up and over the damper door ... The manual says it should have it and yours probably should too.. Unburned smoke will create creosote and waste fuel too..

Ray

I completely agree with you, but I really don't think my stove was designed to have a gasket there. I checked out the bypass area when I was working on it last year. I had the top of the stove off, so I had great access to it, but did not see any grove for a gasket.

Unfortunately I still have not found a manual that goes with my model (84-86) stove. All the manuals I've found (even the manuals that say Pre-90) are all referring to stoves built after 1986. I would be interested if a manual for my stove calls for a gasket there. The other great mystery for my stove is why I don't have a third air supply control for the cat combuster.

So anybody new to this thread who has a manual for a 1984 - 1986 CDW FA224, 264, or 288 CCL stove I would really appreciate a copy. Best way to tell is if you do not have an cat combuster air control above the side feed door. See the attached image.

 

[Myknlin]

my Federal Airtight fan motor; bsearcey

Can't thank you 'nuff!!! The pic you showed of an older F-a,I believe a 1984,looks exactly like mine,ha-ha,so does the rear plate(all broke off!!)About this motor warehouse,Is this also a two-speed? I'm use to the noise,by the way...we did all those other things last few years,oil,clean,etc,etc,but she's not even turning any more-and the bearing end play has increased dramatically,so I'm certain she's pretty shot...anyway,in winter,it gets as low as 20 here,but not for long,with daytime highs up to 70,so wood's the way to go,although we have a 220V regular furnace,hate to pay that power bill...if you Google Mt.Tipton,Az,(Dolan Springs)and look to the north side of the mountain-voila! That's me waving up at the satellite,ha-ha...elevation is 3500 ft,give or take,the south side of the mountain(where the townies are) is way lower elev.,so when the weather channel says a certain temp,we just deduct 6 or 8 degrees...Mike

 

[bsearcey]

Myknlin. Glad to help. The motor is not a two speed/variable speed motor. When I got my blower I had intended on putting a speed control on it, but after asking alot of questions about using one with the motor decided against it. I didn't realize that if you reduce the speed of the fan this will/could cause the motor to overheat causing failure or fire. I even called the manufacturer of the motor and they confirmed that it was not a good idea. They did say that a motor (like the original blower motor) had been constructed better with more copper, etc. allowing them to easily run at variable speeds. The electric motors produced today are not made like that anymore.

Here's the thread I started about it. None of the guys who replied said it wouldn't work, but like I said the manufacturer and a local electric motor repair shop both strongly cautioned against it. Maybe for liability purposes, especially from the manufacturer, but the repair shop I would think would give me an honest answer.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=121204&highlight=blower

 

[raybonz]

Myknlin. Glad to help. The motor is not a two speed/variable speed motor. When I got my blower I had intended on putting a speed control on it, but after asking alot of questions about using one with the motor decided against it. I didn't realize that if you reduce the speed of the fan this will/could cause the motor to overheat causing failure or fire. I even called the manufacturer of the motor and they confirmed that it was not a good idea. They did say that a motor (like the original blower motor) had been constructed better with more copper, etc. allowing them to easily run at variable speeds. The electric motors produced today are not made like that anymore.

Here's the thread I started about it. None of the guys who replied said it wouldn't work, but like I said the manufacturer and a local electric motor repair shop both strongly cautioned against it. Maybe for liability purposes, especially from the manufacturer, but the repair shop I would think would give me an honest answer.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=121204&highlight=blower

Brandon what you can do is restrict the amount of air going into the blower this serves 2 purposes:

1)It reduces the load on the motor by reducing the amount of air it must handle. Trust me this lessens the load, I am a licensed electrician.
2)By reducing the volume of air it quiets the blower down and while it moves less air the air will be hotter because of greater hang time of the air moving through the stove..

I just did this on mine using some Gorilla tape as the noise was annoying at times and it helped alot.. Try blocking the air intake with a piece of paper to see what works for you..

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

Cool Ray. I'll give it a shot. What about wiring up a rheostat to actually control the speed of the fan? Was I wrong about the over heating thing.

Thanks.

 

[raybonz]

Cool Ray. I'll give it a shot. What about wiring up a rheostat to actually control the speed of the fan? Was I wrong about the over heating thing.

Thanks.

Brandon you would have to use a motor speed control not a rheostat.. I think a ceiling fan speed control would work OK however they also tend to introduce some amount of electrical noise especially with a low budget model.. Try what I mentioned as it is simple and costs virtually nothing.. Reducing the air going into the blower actually reduces the load contrary to what most people think and will not harm the blower motor..These motors do not use the blower to cool themselves and speed control may lessen the life of the motor..

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

Brandon you would have to use a motor speed control not a rheostat.. I think a ceiling fan speed control would work OK however they also tend to introduce some amount of electrical noise especially with a low budget model.. Try what I mentioned as it is simple and costs virtually nothing.. Reducing the air going into the blower actually reduces the load contrary to what most people think and will not harm the blower motor..These motors do not use the blower to cool themselves and speed control may lessen the life of the motor..

Ray

Great I'll give it a go. I don't mind the noise, but I agree that slowing the flow will allow the air to warm up more, even though it is pretty hot already.

Another benefit that may happen is the stove doesn't cool down too much either. I've noticed recently (because of discussions on the other forum), that my stove does cool down quite a bit while running the blower. The cooling is pretty pronounced on the side the blower is on. I also think that this also cools down my cat. For instance this morning, I got the stove going, engaged the cat, checked it a few minutes later and the entire cat was glowing. I then turned on the blower and checked the cat a few minutes later and the right side of the cat (side of stove the blower is on) was not glowing on the surface any longer. It had gone dark. It did appear that down in the comb it was still glowing, but not as much as the really lit side. I'm beginning to wonder if it has been causing or partly responsible for some issues I've been having.

Got any thoughts on that?

Thanks Ray.

 

[raybonz]

Great I'll give it a go. I don't mind the noise, but I agree that slowing the flow will allow the air to warm up more, even though it is pretty hot already.

Another benefit that may happen is the stove doesn't cool down too much either. I've noticed recently (because of discussions on the other forum), that my stove does cool down quite a bit while running the blower. The cooling is pretty pronounced on the side the blower is on. I also think that this also cools down my cat. For instance this morning, I got the stove going, engaged the cat, checked it a few minutes later and the entire cat was glowing. I then turned on the blower and checked the cat a few minutes later and the right side of the cat (side of stove the blower is on) was not glowing on the surface any longer. It had gone dark. It did appear that down in the comb it was still glowing, but not as much as the really lit side. I'm beginning to wonder if it has been causing or partly responsible for some issues I've been having.

Got any thoughts on that?

Thanks Ray.

You're welcome and it could be a contributing factor.. I basically blocked about 1/3 of my air intake and the blower quieted down quite a bit.. I assume you read the info at Hearth.com as I am a regular there same name as here.. Let me know what you find..

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

10-4. I'll try it out and see if I notice a difference. I thought you were on hearth, but couldn't remember. I go by nonetheless over there. If you have a minute check out my post over there titled "Crazy/scary draft issue...I think" and give me your thoughts.

 

[raybonz]

10-4. I'll try it out and see if I notice a difference. I thought you were on hearth, but couldn't remember. I go by nonetheless over there. If you have a minute check out my post over there titled "Crazy/scary draft issue...I think" and give me your thoughts.

Oh yes I remember that post and I think you were burning too much small stuff.. I have had that happen here and what you need to do is burn larger splits of seasoned hardwood and control your air or you overfire that stove because all the wood tries to burn at the same time.. You can burn smaller splits just do it in small doses.. Leaking gaskets can aggravate the problem so be sure they are OK..

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

You think my splits are too small? I'd say the hackberry was averaging 4"x5" pie shaped pieces. All total it was about 7-8 pieces to fill the stove. Seems pretty normal size and load amount given my stove size.

Anyway I'm pretty much done with that topic. I've started mixing less seasoned (20-25MC) wood in with the hackberry (14-16MC), and have not had anymore problems, but am still seeing the cat become affected by the blower.

 

[raybonz]

You think my splits are too small? I'd say the hackberry was averaging 4"x5" pie shaped pieces. All total it was about 7-8 pieces to fill the stove. Seems pretty normal size and load amount given my stove size.

Anyway I'm pretty much done with that topic. I've started mixing less seasoned (20-25MC) wood in with the hackberry (14-16MC), and have not had anymore problems, but am still seeing the cat become affected by the blower.

I have never seen my cat when running and assume it is glowing based on the cat temp.. Do you lift the cooktop to see it? Mine is pretty much out of sight..

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

Yeah. I engage based on temps, but check the operation by lifting the cook top. The cat is directly underneath, so it is very visible.

 

[raybonz]

Yeah. I engage based on temps, but check the operation by lifting the cook top. The cat is directly underneath, so it is very visible.

I've thought of looking there at some time just never have.. If you can get hold of some high temp ceramic wool and pack it around the cat that may stop the cooling effect.. My new liner is wrapped with the stuff.. If I had some I would try it as the new stove that replaced ours has refractory mat'l around the cat now..

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

Good suggestion. I actually have alot of Kaowool left over from when I did my install. It will actuall work really well because it is pretty ridged so I can cut out a perfect surround for it. Way to think out of the box Ray!

 

[raybonz]

Good suggestion. I actually have alot of Kaowool left over from when I did my install. It will actuall work really well because it is pretty ridged so I can cut out a perfect surround for it. Way to think out of the box Ray!

Please let me know how it works Brandon.. I don't have anything like that around here or I'd try it myself..

Ray

 

[bsearcey]

Send me a PM and we'll resolve that. I've got plenty left over.

 

[bsearcey]

Alright. I put some of the insulation around the cat housing. I was able to the the front, left and right side good and insulated. I can't put any around the back because the bypass door, when open, rests against it. Any amount of insulation back there will probably give me problems opening the damper. I can't remember the exact rating of this insulation, but I know it is at least 1200F. I'll post back to see and post my observations.

Thanks again Ray.

 

[bsearcey]

Edit that. The wool is rated at 2600F.

 

[bsearcey]

Well everything seems to be working great. Engaged the cat with probe reading 800. Quickly went to 1200, with the cat fully lit. Turned blower on and just checked it and the cat was still completely lit.

Before when I turned on the blower the right side (side the blower is mounted on) of the cat would always (since I've been paying attention) go from glowing to dark. About .25 of the cat surface would be affected/cooled.

Don't know if it is a coincidence, but it is looking promising.