File Life?

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jokers

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How long a useful life does a file have for you guys? I generally keep on using them if I don`t see or feel any smooth spots and they keep on removing a decent amount of metal, maybe ten sharpenings, I don`t know for sure because I haven`t kept track. I was just told by a guy who runs a sawmill that you can only get about 3 or 4 sharpenings from them before they are trash, he claims that it doesn`t matter if they are still apparently removing metal, you aren`t getting your maximum sharpness after a few uses. I kind of think that he`s full of beans. What do you guys think? If someone can explain to my why a chain isn`t sharp after removing metal with a dull file, please enlighten me. I can see where it would take more effort with a dull file, but what does it take to make a file that dull? Thanks, Russ
 
russ,
if everything goes correctly(minimum contact with rocks and dirt, good filing practice, good stay sharp ability in the chain,etc.) a file should last at least the life of one chain. creating fair file comparisions is hard but i have found that laser brand files proform the best of brands tested. many file customers request them now.
when i instruct sharpening i also recommend the filer use the entire file, not just 3 or 4 inches of it. also, tap the end of the file after every cutter. this will reduce the amount of filings stuck in the file. slowly rotate the file as it passes in the cutter. this will assist with a better cutting edge and reduce "flat" spots on the file. marty
 
Lots of people use a file jig; I use one about every third sharpening to make certain angles are staying on track. If using a jig, be certain to lift the file for the return stroke...going backwards destroys files.

I usually restore 2 or 3 chains with the jig at once and find that the file lasts about 2 or 3 sessions if I'm careful. That's not really bad, as I usually have a rocked out chain to try to restore. I have no idea about the files I use outdoors; there's always several laying around the truck or in my kit.

I have been using Nicholsen files lately, but I think I'll go back to the Husky files when this pack is burned up. The worst I remember was a pair of "Skodco" files I bought in an emergency...maybe 2 sharpenings per.
 
I store my files in a 1" PVC tube with caps on the ends. I cut a scrap piece of PVC and picked up a couple end caps at Home Depot. It is 13" long, just long enough for my files including one with the wooden handle on it.

I usually have 2-3 of each size in my tube, grab the first one I find of the right size. If it's dull I throw it away and restock from my box at home. I probably get 10-12 sharpenings per file on the 3/16", more on the 5/32" and less on the 7/32". Really rocked out chains on the 046 and I can burn a file in 3-4 sharpenings.
 
File material

Are files made of carbide or diamond dust?
Cause I was reading about Carbide chaines and they use diamond files on them. I wonder if they would last a long time on a "carbon" steel chain or would it cost too much?
 
Hi Guys, Thanks for all the replies and info. What I`m really wondering is if the file appears to be easily removing metal, is there some way that it is not really sharp and does it affect the ultimate sharpness of the chain. I don`t believe there is. Russ
 
Dull vs. Sharp

A dull file will not give you the "edge" you want on a plate.
If you looked at a filed surface with a microscope you will see a big difference.
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Even notice how much "hotter" the chain and bar are when you use a dull chain? Ever cut meat with a butter knife?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------My question is why hasn't some one come out with a diamond dust round file to to finish out the filing much like you would a knife or carbide blade?
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Is it because the "steel" of the plate will not hold the edge?
What grade of steel are the plates on a chain?

___________________________________________________
 
I think that if you are not removing metal then you can't be sharpening. The problem arises when a file starts getting dull and you have to put more pressure on it to cut. By forcing the file, you don't get as sharp of an edge because you are slightly rolling over the tooth edge. I find that with a sharp file I don't need to press hard and end up with a sharper tooth. Most times 3 light strokes will work better than 2 hard strokes.
 
Galling vs. Cutting

GALLING
The damaging of one or both metallic surfaces by removal of particles from localized areas due to seizure curing sliding friction.

FILED EDGES
Finished edges, the final contours of which are produced by drawing the surface over a series of small steel files. This is the usual and accepted method of dressing the edges of annealed spring steel after slitting in cases where edgewise slitting cracks are objectionable or slitting burr is to be removed.


If material is not removed you a burr maybe created.

BURR
A thin ridge or roughness left by a cutting operation such as in metal slitting, shearing, blanking or sawing.
 
1200 grit 1/4 inch round diamond file

Found a place that makes these. Never used one but does it make sense? What grit/mesh is a chainsaw file?
 
Thanks again to those of you who followed up. I am very familiar with a burred edge, and could easily see where you could be getting a rolled over burr with a dull file. Also familiar with grain structure and alignment on a properly sharpened edge vs a roughed out edge, I`m just not buying that a good quality file is worn out after 4 uses unless you file back so much that you need to lower the rakers everytime you sharpen. Many of you gentleman have answered my question by telling me that you are getting 6 - 10 or more sharpenings per file. Brian, you`re of course right about not sharpening with a dull file, more of a burnished effect and I also believe that you shouldn`t have to bear down with the file. Light licks should be all it takes, also makes it easier to control the file when you just tickle the teeth. Thanks, Russ
 
1200 grit diamond file

I get your point on the mirror finish. These files come in 80 , 120 . 200, 600, and 1200 grit. Never used them on a chain but I use a Diamond cutterly diamond file file on knives. The practice would be the same but would need a file to conform with the top side plate curvature? I am just trying to figuire how to get a really sharp edge stumper.
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Where do you get Laser brand files?

Are most "great" files "swiss" made?
 
I've been wondering alot lately about the application of cryogenic freezing technology to chainsaw parts. Would the bar rails and chain cutters last that much longer to justify the cost? Files would last longer but even "good" files are relatively in-expensive.
 
Cryogenics

Sedan,

I am fanatic when it comes to extreme varmint rifles, to achieve the accuracy I want from my guns i Have them custom built, Dan lilja makes some of the best barrels in the world read his statement about cryo.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/

then go to FAQ I have had barrels cryod and compared to before and after nothing but three hundred bucks not well spent. Golfers went thru that craze and then there was the push by major league baseball for alum bats because there where clams cryo would hit a ball farther.

Yes people will debate this but most bench rest shooters have moved to the next craze and moly coated bullets has passed also.
But there is a product called dansact that has claims to dispurse heat but also just claims. I will scan the article if you would like to read it. email me at [email protected]

I am headed out to shoot praire dogs this weekend in New Mexico but I will forward when I get back if you would like it.


http://www.cryogenicsinternational.com/informat.htm maybe you should ask DR freeze and see if he would do a test on the chains and bars


Q. What is your opinion of the deep cryogenic processing of barrels?

A. The cryogenic treating of barrels at a temperature of -300 degrees below zero has been a hot topic of discussion lately. Our short answer is that it will not harm your barrel but we are not completely convinced of all of the benefits claimed by some. The only benefits that we feel are likely to result from the treatment are possibly a longer barrel life and a slight increase in machinability.

Claims for increased accuracy through stress relief are not founded in our opinion. When barrels are button rifled no material is removed, it is just displaced. This causes stresses to be formed in the steel. If these stresses are not removed problems will result. These negative conditions include warping of the barrel during other machining operations, an increase in the bore diameter towards the muzzle end of the barrel during the contouring phase, and in the extreme, lengthwise splitting of the barrel. Also, if there are stresses remaining in the barrel they can be slowly released as a barrel warms up during firing. This causes the barrel to actually move during the course of shooting, causing inaccuracy.

In our testing we have found that the only effective means to completely remove the types of stresses introduced during rifling are with conventional heat treating using elevated temperatures. The -300 degree treatment alone will not remove these stresses. We have been told by a knowledgeable metallurgist that the deep cold treatment will, at best, remove up to 6% of the remaining stresses in the type of steel used for rifle barrels. The key words here are remaining stresses. In other words if the barrel was not stress relieved conventionally, then only 6% of the original stress will be removed. If the barrel has been treated conventionally with heat and then brought through the -300 degree cycle, up to 6% of any remaining stresses could be removed by the cold treatment. We do know through our testing that the cold treatment alone will not remove any significant amount of stress and that the problems outlined above concerning stress will remain in the barrel.

So, because of the very limited amount of stress that could be removed with the cold treatment (if the barrel has been properly stress relieved with heat as our barrels are) we do not believe that there can be much if any accuracy benefit to the -300 degree treatment of our barrels. It is for these reasons that we feel the cold process has very little potential for increasing the accuracy of our barrels. In our opinion, other than the removal of these stresses, there are no other mechanical factors involved that could benefit accuracy in a rifle barrel, resulting from a heat treating operation, either hot or cold.

For reasons not completely understood however there may be an increase in the wear resistance of the steel. This type of wear however does not contribute greatly to barrel erosion. We invite you to read our comments on this type of barrel wear in the question regarding the use of moly coated bullets.

Another possible side benefit to the freezing process is a slight increase in its machinability.

Post Script: Since I originally wrote this an excellent article by Kevin Thomas of Sierra Bullets was printed in the September, 1998 issue of Precision Shooting magazine. Mr. Thomas found, in a controlled test, that there was little benefit to deep freezing match grade barrels. He could see no difference in accuracy but probably a slight increase in useful life. I would encourage anyone interested in this subject to take a look at this article.
 
I am not sure how it will work out on the bar/chain.I do know that in Australia some of the saw builders cryo there cranks,rods,cylinders and pistons.They claim after they are treated that they are stronger,also claim a lot less friction.
Later
Dan:cool:
 
darn. i also forgot to mention never drag the file backwards in the cutter. always remove it from the cutter at the end of the stroke and replace it at the tip where the file has no cutting surface. this will help use the entire file and give you a head start when pushing the file through the cutter.
i get my laser files from erie pa.
marty
 
Laser Files

"i get my laser files from erie pa."
Do you hve an address / phone number?
 
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