Fire

[Hddnis]

I got a call to estimate a fuel reduction around a home on a wooded property.

Seventy large firs within fifty feet of the house and garage. They wanted to "limb them up a little to protect the house in a fire" I told them flat out that they didn't have a prayer in a fire, so unless they wanted to remove a lot of trees they should just enjoy them and pray a fire never came through.

They lived at the top of a narrow canyon, the whole mile below them was not maintained in any way, overloaded with trees and brush, standing dead, ladder fuels, it was nasty. Local FD told me they would not even send anyone into that canyon in the case of a fire, no escape.

They said they thought limbing up the trees should at least help. They were nice enough, both professors at the local college, so I helped them with a little math. Based on size, working off the estimated total weight of each tree, and we had 8,400,000,000 BTUs being released within fifty feet of the house in less than a half hour. I told them that was three railcar loads of propane. The husband turned white, the wife said "but they're trees, not propane, so don't they burn slower?" Before I had time to answer it hit her too, she turned white and said "That would be like hell, holy cow it would be like a kiln here!" I just said "Now you understand."

They elected to just enjoy the trees and I cut a nice trail up out of the canyon behind the house that they can drive the UTV on, this gives them a second way out. Now their fire mitigation plan is to run. They store valuables in a safe in town, and got a digital copy of family photos.

They have accepted reality, taken some reasonable precautions, and put their faith in insurance. Viva la trees!

 

[Stephen Meister]

I give a lot of credit to the men and women out fighting these fires. Getting trapped and burned alive just freaks me out.

 

[Hddnis]

I give a lot of credit to the men and women out fighting these fires. Getting trapped and burned alive just freaks me out.

I could be wrong, but I think they work really hard to NOT get trapped and burned alive.

 

[Stephen Meister]

I could be wrong, but I think they work really hard to NOT get trapped and burned alive.

Yeah but it happens, and I can’t imagine when the reality sets in that their life is over and they won’t be coming home to their family.

 

[windthrown]

I got a call to estimate a fuel reduction around a home on a wooded property.

Seventy large firs within fifty feet of the house and garage. They wanted to "limb them up a little to protect the house in a fire" I told them flat out that they didn't have a prayer in a fire, so unless they wanted to remove a lot of trees they should just enjoy them and pray a fire never came through.

They lived at the top of a narrow canyon, the whole mile below them was not maintained in any way, overloaded with trees and brush, standing dead, ladder fuels, it was nasty. Local FD told me they would not even send anyone into that canyon in the case of a fire, no escape.

They said they thought limbing up the trees should at least help. They were nice enough, both professors at the local college, so I helped them with a little math. Based on size, working off the estimated total weight of each tree, and we had 8,400,000,000 BTUs being released within fifty feet of the house in less than a half hour. I told them that was three railcar loads of propane. The husband turned white, the wife said "but they're trees, not propane, so don't they burn slower?" Before I had time to answer it hit her too, she turned white and said "That would be like hell, holy cow it would be like a kiln here!" I just said "Now you understand."

They elected to just enjoy the trees and I cut a nice trail up out of the canyon behind the house that they can drive the UTV on, this gives them a second way out. Now their fire mitigation plan is to run. They store valuables in a safe in town, and got a digital copy of family photos.

They have accepted reality, taken some reasonable precautions, and put their faith in insurance. Viva la trees!

Fuel reduction? Look at the fire in Paradise and the recent Almeda fire in Southern Oregon. Cutting trees to reduce the fire risk was useless. At the wind speeds we had 2 weeks ago here (70MPH+) it will do little if anything to reduce the chances of a structure burning or not. I have pines within 10 feet of my house. But I also have 100s of square miles of trees to the south and east of me in the Mt Hood Forest and the Bull Run Watershed. Nothing will stop a fire advancing toward my property from either of those directions. So I have left the pines where they are. The beetles may kill them off though. I lost a few large pines here in the last few years to the bark beetles.

I was at a level 2 evacuation with 2 reverse 911 calls last week here. Since then I have gotten 3 inches of rain and the Riverside fire has stalled out. Fortunately. I am now at level 0 evacuation. But the south half of Clackamas County is still at level 3 evac.; leave now. This is the second fire in 3 years for me to come near here. The last one was the Gorge fire. Same thing, high east winds, hot late summer days.

 

[TBS]

This is whats left of Alder springs and pine ridge 50+ homes just a pile of ash.

 

[Stephen Meister]

This is whats left of Alder springs and pine ridge 50+ homes just a pile of ash.
View attachment 857780View attachment 857781View attachment 857783View attachment 857784

What a shame. These people are losing everything.

 

[slowp]

I could be wrong, but I think they work really hard to NOT get trapped and burned alive.

Exactly. I've been "trapped" but it was in an area pre located called a safety zone. It was a large meadow and we took a break while the fire burned around it. It was a crown fire in lodgepole and pretty interesting to see. Our crew felt perfectly safe there, and we were. A crew next to us popped their shelters--talking later to their crewboss, he said they were very inexperienced (there were from the midwest) and he was afraid they would panic so he had them get in their shelters. Meanwhile, our sawyer was bellowing at the fire, "FIVE MORE MINUTES! FIVE MORE MINUTES AND WE'D UH HAD 'ER SWARPED!" Our crew was made up of folks from the different departments of our district, but we'd worked together a lot on slash burns and had that (sometimes exciting) experience together.

Identifying a place to escape to is one of the big priorities and is done before work commences.

Swarp is a term brought to the Big Bottom area of the Cowlitz Valley from settlers coming from East Tennesee. I used the term in Wisconsin and my boss heard me, and was delighted. He was from the Appalachians in one of the Carolinas. He had not heard it since leaving that area.

 

[slowp]

There is a lengthy article about our local fire in the Spokane newspaper today. One couple took refuge in a graveyard and survived unscathed. They and the firefighters described the winds as being very erratic--changing directions constantly.

 

[Stephen Meister]

There is a lengthy article about our local fire in the Spokane newspaper today. One couple took refuge in a graveyard and survived unscathed. They and the firefighters described the winds as being very erratic--changing directions constantly.

Do you have a link to this?

 

[Hddnis]

This story?
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/sep/27/burnt-like-i-am-after-fires-burn-through-colville-/

 

[northmanlogging]

to give a little perspective to the nebraska/high plains vs PNW,

I've lived in both, the high plains and midwest timber stands, have very little underbrush, and the grass is very thin and short, while it does get dry there just isn't much fuel, less so in the sage brush areas.

In the PNW the underbrush is incredibly dense, dense enough that lots of folks get lost a very short distance from trails and roads, I'm talking feet and yards here. That means a whole lot of fuel in the right conditions. Annnnd while nebraska might have a few random canyons, its mostly flat, with a very gradual drop to the east of less then 5000' across the length of the state. While in the PNW you can gain 5000' and still make it home for lunch, If you left the house at 10am, Talking nose bleed stuff here... (no really my brother used to get nose bleeds every time we drove into the hills... or every time he thought I would like to wrestle...which is never...so... pretty often lol)

Now all ya all bitchin about climate change etc, I've spent the better part of the last 30 years stomping through the brush in the PNW both for recreation, and as a living. And I've never seen the woods this dry, even the salal is dying off in places, ferns are dying back a month early, and the hemlock is overstocked and disease ridden. Its kinda scary out there.

Add that to a bunch of hill billies that can't understand camping without a fire, or city slickers that don't understand cigarettes can start fires among 100's of other potential causes, and this current pandemic, you get exponentially more yayhoo's in the woods and exponentially more fires, Then all we need for a record setting catastrophe is some mild (for the great plains) winds and you have a fire that will burn everything in its path.

 

[Hddnis]

Many times this fire moved faster than a man can run.

This shows some of the terrain it was burning in. I bet they gained 2500' of elevation after they left the highway to where the machines were parked.

 

[slowp]

This story?
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/sep/27/burnt-like-i-am-after-fires-burn-through-colville-/

Yes, that story. That was the humongus white plume that was in the picture of the smaller fire across the river. The smaller fire burned up the not in production lumber mill so I guess the rumors of the mill reopening will stop.

 

[Hddnis]

Yes, that story. That was the humongus white plume that was in the picture of the smaller fire across the river. The smaller fire burned up the not in production lumber mill so I guess the rumors of the mill reopening will stop.

I heard a rumor that they are going to rebuild the mill.




J/K, sorry, I know the rumors about mills reopening. I think they are based on hope. Hope that jobs will come back, the little communities they support will live on.

 

[madhatte]

Arggh, it never ends, does it?

 

[slowp]

The tribe owns or owned the mill. The story I got, and it may not be factual, was that the tribe wanted to lease out the mill but they were requiring that some or maybe it was that upgrades had to be made to make it operable and up to date. They were expecting whoever would lease it to make all the improvements and pay for it. Does that make sense? Not to mention that the tribe's forest lands have been burning up. I think I read where they lost a quarter? a third? of their tree inventory a few years ago.

We see logs being hauled over to Colville and even logs going west somewhere--Darrington? Probably a load a day for a truck. Possibly two for Colville. Maybe not.

 

[lightj12]

Shout out to Tyler at Bothe State park in CA; currently encircled by the Glass fire in Sonoma and Napa Counties. Not looking good over there; hope that they can pull this one out.

 

[Hddnis]

That's only a couple miles from Calistoga.

Looks like temps are supposed to be 104° tomorrow, winds picking up tomorrow night. Relative humidity down to 11%.

Going to be an interesting few days.

Strength and focus for the crews.

 

[TBS]

Just a short 6 mile run, well its shorter than the 22 mile run anyway.


If you have an alertwildfire camera showing a fire in your area they can make you a video if you ask