Fire

[2dogs]

Well WC90 is on my ignore list but it appears he says a propane tank in a wildland fire doesn't present a problem. Sorry buddy you are DEAD wrong. As someone else pointed out a propane tank can overheat to a point where the pressure relief valve can no longer function to bleed product and cool the tank. When a tank fails and explodes and the product ignites it is called a BLEVE. It is very exciting. There is a great video on youtube showing a fire in a gas plant in Korea where several BLEVES take place. It is a long video so only someone who understands the subject will watch the entire thing but there is a HUGE BLEVE about 10 minutes in that any firefighter can see coming. Sorry WC90 there no cartoon animals or gay porn so I know you won't watch it.

 

[2dogs]

Catbuster I don't know which dozers Cal Fire is buying now (I think John Deere but I don't know the model) but at least for the last few years they were NOT buying angle dozers, only straight blades. They said it was to reduce cost. Sorta like BLM buying bareback dozers until they found out they couldn't back up hill.

This is a new angle dozer. Can you tell the model?
http://wildfiretoday.com/2015/07/16...00-acres-northwest-of-placerville-california/

 

[2dogs]

B TW I'm back from the Sierras. Only had one run in with a bear. I probably have to head down to Big Sur on Thursday.

 

[catbuster]

Catbuster I don't know which dozers Cal Fire is buying now (I think John Deere but I don't know the model) but at least for the last few years they were NOT buying angle dozers, only straight blades. They said it was to reduce cost. Sorta like BLM buying bareback dozers until they found out they couldn't back up hill.

This is a new angle dozer. Can you tell the model?
http://wildfiretoday.com/2015/07/16...00-acres-northwest-of-placerville-california/

That's a Deere 750. J model. Deere makes an OK machine, but Cat is king of the dozer market. Komatsu is my second pick, and after that I won't buy the machine. When I think wildland fires I think of a Cat D7 or D8, either N or R model. I run one on a daily basis, but they're oversize loads and aren't very nimble like a smaller machine such as that 750.

That dozer has a 6-way Power-Angle-Tilt blade. They're nice in construction, but are kind of meh for any rough work, too many hoses to snag and joints to break. An angle blade is like you see on an LA County D8. A true angle blade mounts on a U shaped frame and pins back into mounting holes on the frame. You only have sideways tilt, to throw material off to one side.

Granted, there aren't a lot of machines that actually work fires like those. But, they're a whole lot more powerful and do more work in less time. They also cost twice as much as a 750 Deere to purchase, burn a lot more fuel and are almost prohibitively expensive to maintain. With that said, I tested out on a D8N, and I have large dozers (Cat D8Rs), so I'm biased towards them. But even a small dozer can pretty often replace a hand crew.

 

[2dogs]

Thanks CatB. Have you checked out the CalDOG site? Lots of good links and of course some cool pics.

Most dozers in my area are D6s both agency and contractor. I rarely see anything else but Caterpillar.

 

[madhatte]

Note to all, including self: I just cleaned up a bunch of unruly discussion. I left dissenting opinions, because disagreement is OK so long as it's constructive and respectful, but deleted a whole bunch of extraneous nonsense including personal attacks. No timeouts this time around. Let's get back to the business of discussing fire, shall we?

 

[catbuster]

Thanks CatB. Have you checked out the CalDOG site? Lots of good links and of course some cool pics.

Most dozers in my area are D6s both agency and contractor. I rarely see anything else but Caterpillar.

I was a member of CALDOG before I became primarily a faller. They're a great resource of you want to get into dozer ops.

I've run some D6Rs. They're a nice blend of nimbleness and power. The new small dozers are all hydrostatic drive and are controlled by a left hand joystick. It's a lot easier than when all dozers were direct drive power shuttles you steered with foot pedals haha. The D8Rs are fun to drive, with the twist to select gears and then push/pull to steer horizontal bar. The large machines are still in the realm of the skilled cat skinner, though.

As active as this season has been I'm surprised I haven't gotten a call to head out the west coast yet this year, either as a dozer operator, dozer boss, engine boss or faller.

 

[Metals406]

We had a 7, & two 6's on the last fire. Father and son ran the 7 & one 6 -- another fella ran the last 6.

Div wanted a vertical cat line straight off a road to tie in a hose lay. The old man bombed off on the 7 & took a good chunk of road with him -- and still slid 3 cat lengths. He then got stuck behind a Larch, finally bulled it over, got stuck on it, & was able to slide off without rolling.

Huge. . . Balls!

There's not enough money printed by the Federal Reserve to get me to do what them guys were doing.

 

[Eccentric]

Restoring the video and link that I posted early yesterday....





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_liquid_expanding_vapor_explosion

 

[tramp bushler]

Hi Everyone !
Well , I gotta publicly eat humble pie here.
This summer was my first time on a fire. . Runnong a D5H Grapple dozer on the Tetlin Hills fire in Tok .
Being a professional timber faller and tower "and ground machine" logger . I have always kindof Gnashed my teeth at govt forestry personell. Especially Hot shot , jumpers and line crews that wanted to Splain to me how to fall a tree. . I will say , that of the dozens of guys I saw running a power saw on this fire . I wouldnt of hired a single one of them . Well ok there were 2 that showed promise. but . I just couldnt watch any of them. . Ok so ya may be wondering about my humble pie eating . . What I did learn is , Those same guys KNEW !! how to keep me alive and safe !!!!! Yall understand the forest in a way I had never experienced. . Had to go hide in The Black and or make tracks to a Safety Zone several times .
My dozer bosses would look at the sky and explain to me what was going to happen . . Sometimes they would make me stop pushing and turn around and track back up out of the green when pushing inderict line .

 

[tramp bushler]

Or direct line if it wasnt good hard black that I was going direct along. Their use of air support while going direct or corraling slop andspot. was very comforting and Impressive !!!!

 

[tramp bushler]

So , I told them that I had gained a whole new level of Respect for them . Which I think was timely and appreciated . Pushing line through black spruce green that grew on permafrost is a slippery adventure. as the mineral soil is just hard frozen black muck. And mixed white spruce/ birch /poplar timber often was growing on flat sided boulders. Was an adventure in getting beat up in the cab . The 5 wasnt as good at steep ground as the 6 that was also on the fire but with the grapple it was very valueable for several thongs. .
So I now have a new appreciation for what you guys do . Thanks !!!
Glen

 

[Metals406]

Glen!! Long time no see pard! :0)

 

[tramp bushler]

yup; I got a small brain and I needed to learn a bunch of new stuff. When this site crashed I got frustrated with it and went out with the tide. Had some time tday t work on a saw and couldnt post up anything without saying Hi and giving an update. How ya been ? Whatchya up 2 this summer ?

 

[1270d]

There are not too many forest fires in my part of the country, but five or six year ago one burned right over my folks house and our equipment shop. It is in a hardwood stand and horse pasture so the place escaped real damage unlike the homes downhill in the pine flats.

After we knew the fire had passed our place, my father and I sat on his deck in the dark watching the burn. We heard at least half a dozen propane tanks explode. The big house size ones. Very impressive concussion.
Definitely no slow leaking off of gas. Wouldn't want to be within a hundred yards of one of those I would think.

 

[Metals406]

yup; I got a small brain and I needed to learn a bunch of new stuff. When this site crashed I got frustrated with it and went out with the tide. Had some time tday t work on a saw and couldnt post up anything without saying Hi and giving an update. How ya been ? Whatchya up 2 this summer ?

Been on one fire so far this season in Idaho. Wait'n to get called to another before snow flies.

Glad to hear you're still among the upright.

 

[tramp bushler]

[URL=http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/gumboot4581/media/photobucket-
295566-1438130729102.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j464/gumboot4581/photobucket-295566-1438130729102.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

 

[tramp bushler]

 

[tramp bushler]

hey , it worked.

 

[tramp bushler]