Fire

[catbuster]

That's the dance you do in a fire, lay too much wood down, it can be a spot for a slash pile from hell.

Don't cut enough, you can leave candles, hazards, etc.

But, as I said before, that's the greatest part of having a dozer or a hoe on scene-it takes a couple flicks of the wrist to lay out a pile.

 

[madhatte]

the definition of sawyer is someone that doesn't like to dig.

HA! Too true... or maybe even don't care for pulling hose, which is me. If I can't do it with a driptorch or a chainsaw, I'm gonna be leery of getting involved at all!

 

[2dogs]

HA! Too true... or maybe even don't care for pulling hose, which is me. If I can't do it with a driptorch or a chainsaw, I'm gonna be leery of getting involved at all!

I liked pulling hose...as long as it was coming off the reel. Heck even laying 500 or 600 feet of hose is OK. Much beyond that and all I could think of was when is the inmate crew going to get here. I pumped some long hose lays when I drove a contract water tender. Sure glad I didn't have to pick it up. Nowadays I laugh when I see the pics of huge piles of hose at the incident base after everything is done.

 

[tramp bushler]

Lance Gidley;Sand Point.
One of my dozer bosses. the only one I have a still of. One of my other DB Jesse Myers from Missoula a Smoke Jumper I got on vid but my fon wont let me edit out stills. . I guess Lance liked the job I was doing . We used a variety of comms on this fire . Text and cell being reliable in reception over 2/3rds of the fires area.

 

[tramp bushler]

Me and Olga , hideing in The Black

 

[catbuster]

I liked pulling hose...as long as it was coming off the reel. Heck even laying 500 or 600 feet of hose is OK. Much beyond that and all I could think of was when is the inmate crew going to get here. I pumped some long hose lays when I drove a contract water tender. Sure glad I didn't have to pick it up. Nowadays I laugh when I see the pics of huge piles of hose at the incident base after everything is done.

Even as an Lt, which levels out to engine boss on wildland fires, on Squad 31, and I'll define a squad as a heavy rescue truck with a 1500 GPM pump, 750 gallons tank water plus some hoses and nozzles. I hated pumping long hose lays. And I mean, on some calls, we were looking at a half-mile to a fire hydrant. I hate hoses. With a passion. Re-racking a half mile of wet, heavy 5" supply line when it's 10 degrees outside at 3:00 AM in January blows.


I will now deviate even more from wildland, and I apologize in advance. We had a large house fire last December where we damn near laid out 7200 feet of 5" supply line... And then we got the tank tender out, set up 4000 gallons of dump tanks... At the end of a 2000' driveway. There was space for one truck at the end. In structural firefighting, on a structure fire, the "truck" (read: ladder truck carrying tools and no water or hoses) gets the front of the house so it's easier to pull tools off. Well, the engine putting the wet stuff on the red stuff can't be 2000' away, but I cannot wait ten minutes to get a haligan.

So, 31 arrives first on scene, from Station 2, followed by truck 55 and engine 33 out of station 1. The Chief had not showed up so I called command. The first thing I called for was to have 33 lay in from a hydrant. I was pretty surprised when they called and told me it was too far of a lay. Thankfully, 55 truck is really a "quint," or a ladder with a pump and some hoses. So, I called back to 2 to see if the volunteers could get my tender on the road. Thankfully we had a crew in quarters and they rolled. Then I called for a pickup to run the driveway and another tender. Unfortunately dispatch thought I called a box alarm... So instead of just what I needed I got 12 trucks on scene... Clogging up my only access, a 2 lane road. So, I sent them all back.

And then the chief arrived and I got to drive a 2000 gallon unbaffled tank 50 miles an hour around a windy, hilly road- 3208 Cat screaming and burning oil all the way.

 

[madhatte]

Most of our engines are Type 6 wildland rigs with 200' of 1" hard line on Hannay reels. They're handy and maneuverable. If I have to hook up soft line, I start grumbling. We buy the cheapest nylon soft line we can because we use it so seldom and we burn it up so often that it doesn't make sense to pay more. There's also always the NH/NPSH/quarter-turn argument. I really only like to pull line from the reel and mop up with the spray nozzle on a Forester rather than a pulaski. It stirs well and is miserly with the water. The fog nozzle is good for open flames in short fuels or on vertical stems but not much else. In my experience, it's way easier to starve a fire of fuel than of oxygen or heat, so I prefer a saw or a torch as a tool whenever practical. I pledge eternal love for dozers for making trails so I can pull hose where I need to.

And then the chief arrived and I got to drive a 2000 gallon unbaffled tank 50 miles an hour around a windy, hilly road- 3208 Cat screaming and burning oil all the way.

*shudder* no thanks

We used a variety of comms on this fire . Text and cell being reliable in reception over 2/3rds of the fires area.

Yep. Sometimes you just gotta make it work. Lots of times I lead the dozer with a flag on the end of a shovel handle, fire a chain or two off my shoulder.

Nowadays I laugh when I see the pics of huge piles of hose at the incident base after everything is done.

Or on the floor of my shop to be dealt with in the morning.

 

[madhatte]

My dozer op VS last Wed lookin tough after cutting and improving 2 miles of trail

 

[tramp bushler]

Before we got federal Overhead on this fire , the IT Trainee , Ted Morris had to pull double duty as a dozer boss. He would use a bunch of flagging on a pulaski handle. and lead the dozer if thimgs got hot and heavy. As an operator the thingI hate most is when.

 

[catbuster]

Most of our engines are Type 6 wildland rigs with 200' of 1" hard line on Hannay reels. They're handy and maneuverable. If I have to hook up soft line, I start grumbling. We buy the cheapest nylon soft line we can because we use it so seldom and we burn it up so often that it doesn't make sense to pay more. There's also always the NH/NPSH/quarter-turn argument. I really only like to pull line from the reel and mop up with the spray nozzle on a Forester rather than a pulaski. It stirs well and is miserly with the water. The fog nozzle is good for open flames in short fuels or on vertical stems but not much else. In my experience, it's way easier to starve a fire of fuel than of oxygen or heat, so I prefer a saw or a torch as a tool whenever practical. I pledge eternal love for dozers for making trails so I can pull hose where I need to.



*shudder* no thanks



Yep. Sometimes you just gotta make it work. Lots of times I lead the dozer with a flag on the end of a shovel handle, fire a chain or two off my shoulder.



Or on the floor of my shop to be dealt with in the morning.

31 and 33, plus our reserve piece, 32, class out as Type 1. We have one rig that classes out as a 5 in terms of pump and water but is closer to a 7 in terms of GVW. 67, the tender, is scary to drive but is really nice in that it has pump and roll capability. And I drive it either filled to the brim or completely dry. A training burn in April nearly killed it when the battalion chief backed it over a cistern and nearly put it on its' side. And yeah, you can say "slow down" but when I'm the only tender around, my guys are flowing 750-1000 GPM and I have a long haul, it's not an option.

Now... That's with a rural structure-oriented department. Out west, things change a whole lot.

 

[tramp bushler]

pushing along black edge and suddenly a finger fish hooks around and Ive already blasted trees into the fire . In black spruce it often is so thick you cant see 10 feet.

 

[2dogs]

Even as an Lt, which levels out to engine boss on wildland fires, on Squad 31, and I'll define a squad as a heavy rescue truck with a 1500 GPM pump, 750 gallons tank water plus some hoses and nozzles. I hated pumping long hose lays. And I mean, on some calls, we were looking at a half-mile to a fire hydrant. I hate hoses. With a passion. Re-racking a half mile of wet, heavy 5" supply line when it's 10 degrees outside at 3:00 AM in January blows.


I will now deviate even more from wildland, and I apologize in advance. We had a large house fire last December where we damn near laid out 7200 feet of 5" supply line... And then we got the tank tender out, set up 4000 gallons of dump tanks... At the end of a 2000' driveway. There was space for one truck at the end. In structural firefighting, on a structure fire, the "truck" (read: ladder truck carrying tools and no water or hoses) gets the front of the house so it's easier to pull tools off. Well, the engine putting the wet stuff on the red stuff can't be 2000' away, but I cannot wait ten minutes to get a haligan.

So, 31 arrives first on scene, from Station 2, followed by truck 55 and engine 33 out of station 1. The Chief had not showed up so I called command. The first thing I called for was to have 33 lay in from a hydrant. I was pretty surprised when they called and told me it was too far of a lay. Thankfully, 55 truck is really a "quint," or a ladder with a pump and some hoses. So, I called back to 2 to see if the volunteers could get my tender on the road. Thankfully we had a crew in quarters and they rolled. Then I called for a pickup to run the driveway and another tender. Unfortunately dispatch thought I called a box alarm... So instead of just what I needed I got 12 trucks on scene... Clogging up my only access, a 2 lane road. So, I sent them all back.

You need tender balls. You know, the big plastic whiffle balls that prevent sloshing. They work.

When we first got our ladder truck many years ago, to replace a 1949 La France, we ordered 5" supply line in 100' lengths to save on the cost of couplings. What a mistake that was! That 5" is heavy stuff. My old department then replaced that quint (104' Sutphen) with a tillered arial.

And then the chief arrived and I got to drive a 2000 gallon unbaffled tank 50 miles an hour around a windy, hilly road- 3208 Cat screaming and burning oil all the way.

You need tender balls.

 

[2dogs]

Me and Olga , hideing in The BlackView attachment 438469

No curtains in the cab?

 

[madhatte]

I drive it either filled to the brim or completely dry.

I got in a fight with the higher-ups over this earlier this season. I wanted my tender crews to either use their water, fill everybody, or dump it before traveling; higher-ups wanted water available, however little. I argued operator safety, they argued slow down. We'll see how it goes. We did lose a tender in 2008 to a roll-over accident. No injuries, thankfully, but the truck was a total loss. I'm not inclined to value water over lives.

 

[BeatCJ]

Standard verbiage is "always keep 100 gallons reserve in your tank". Pretty sure I don't agree, but I tend to keep my mouth shut. Our Tenders are all well baffled, so we don't dump excess water. But you do feel it, no matter how fast you are moving.

 

[tramp bushler]

No curtains in the

cab?

Olga's owner is Thor Jorgenson

No curtains in the cab?

 

[catbuster]

Standard verbiage is "always keep 100 gallons reserve in your tank". Pretty sure I don't agree, but I tend to keep my mouth shut. Our Tenders are all well baffled, so we don't dump excess water. But you do feel it, no matter how fast you are moving.

I don't agree with having fluid slosh in a tank that's already pretty high up, and I helped write my department's apparatus operating SOPs. So, if you are moving in excess of 20 miles per hour the tank is either topped off or dumped. No in between. The tender also does not exceed 50 miles per hour speed loaded, period. We only have one water tender, and it's old, and used primarily in a "fill-dump" arrangement where the tanker dumps into a dump tank for and engine to draft from, or nurses an engine. We also use it as a portable hydrant for type 5/6 engines on large brush fires.

 

[madhatte]

Any chance I could get a copy of that SOP? I'd like to have some documentation to back up my argument.

 

[tramp bushler]

It's funny how they call them brush fires when a few million board feet turn to charcoal. Loggers can't seem to put a dent in the resource compared to natural forces.
Have a drink on me.View attachment 437853

Gypo; I couldnt figure out your post . . Guys talkin about fires in Cal. and Warshington . But you put up a pic that looks like Glennallen or Tok Alaska. A little A.S. stalking and I found out the cause . Cool ! That jug looks like fireweed honey .

 

[catbuster]

Any chance I could get a copy of that SOP? I'd like to have some documentation to back up my argument.

Send me a PM with your e-mail and I'll send you one when I have some time