Firewood business?

[banjobart]

It's minimum wage business... unless: you are getting paid to remove trees and the firewood is a free bonus biz.

 

[muddstopper]

I found out a long time ago trying to put all the profit in your pocket will lead to an early grave. By that I mean, trying to do it all by yourself. You can buy that half million $ worth of equipment, but someone has to run it, and maintain it. Sure you handle a lot more money if you cut and haul the wood yourself, and you handle more money if you process the wood and then sell it yourself. But handleing the money and keeping the money are two different things. Big equipment means big expenses, employees and liabilities. If I was going to get into the firewood business, I wouldnt even consider buying logging equipment. You have to sell a lot of wood just to pay for the equipment. What I would invest in is a processor and something to load it with. Buy you wood from the loggers and let them worry about keeping up the equipment and insurance and tags and dealing with the DOT. Let them worry about the weather and muddy roads. Buy your logs, have them delivered, process them when you want to, and sell your wood to the folks that will come and pick it up. you will put more money in your pocket every load and not have near the headaches that goes with owning logging epuipment. Just my 2cents.

Now having said that, if you are already in the logging business, and you already own the logging equipment, and you want to do firewood as a side business, or in conjunction with your logging business, I would still buy a processor and consider it a cheap addon to an already established business.

 

[cantoo]

For someone with no access to cheap wood or lots of room to store bought wood your best bet would be to get the maximum money you can from the smallest amount of wood. This means firewood bundles and restaurant wood. Kettle corn sales, wood fired pizza, wood smoked meats etc. This means premium wood too though.

 

[shamusturbo]

Some pretty harsh statements to be sure for someone optimistic about making extra money. I literally started with nothing 11 years ago when I was 14. Built my own log splitter, sold it on the road in front of my parents house and delivered 4 cords the first year. That splitter cost me $864 to build. I just bought a $50k plus processor in December. With that being said, here is my 2 cents:

• You will never need to advertise. Word of mouth will do the work with a good product and service.
• Make sure you can sell premium wood for AT LEAST $300/cord, no matter what time of the year.
• A source of wood is the most important variable. It may "dry up" tomorrow. You may find tree co's to drop for free. It's always changing.
• Don't rush any decision and there is no need to be the biggest badass firewood guy in town by next weekend.
• It's fun when you DONT have to do it. For most of us, its therapeutic. I'm addicted.
• Self-serve racks are phenomenal. I have only been shorted 3 times for less than $20 and have been overpaid more times than that....
• Never sell green. Why sell today for $200 when you could wait 6-9 months and sell for $300 plus??? Craziness.
• When you are sold out, say so! Don't try to substitute.
• Stick to firewood! You don't need to be a logger, or tree care company or charity tree company. However, scavenge when you can.
• Make sure you have the room to do 5 cords and possibly 100-300 cords down the road. I thought 2.5 acres would be plenty. I was wrong.....
• Nevermind taxes or insurance, you are a business the second you intentionally sell something for a financial gain, IMHO. Make sure if something does happen- with you, your truck,your taxes, hired help, or to/on other people's property, you are covered and won't lose ALL your assets...when/if the time comes........

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Logging is kind of a "side effect" of firewood.

The advice is just that and what works in one area, won't work in another. I don't like seeing posts that more or less "ridicule" a suggestion, because there is certainly no rock solid "rules" or anything!

I can tell you to make decent money at firewood you either need to:

Fill a niche market which allows for high priced wood,
or doing alot of volume at normal prices.


A hobby is one thing, but a business is a completely different animal. 8 cords is a drop in a hat for most vendors.

Word of mouth is good, but advertising helps too. Doesn't have to be anything expensive. Newspaper, Craig's List, couple signs by the highway near the shop, etc.
I made the "mistake" one year of doing radio ads. Holy smokes. I had more orders by COB Monday (2 days) than I could process by that coming Saturday and I was doing 6-7 cords a day.

 

[Marshy]

Logging is kind of a "side effect" of firewood.

The advice is just that and what works in one area, won't work in another. I don't like seeing posts that more or less "ridicule" a suggestion, because there is certainly no rock solid "rules" or anything!

True. In the same regard I laugh at people telling another that they need to drop $50K to get a foot in the firewood business.

Oops, forgot a zero above, lol $500K to start!

 

[svk]

I don't believe you ever mentioned where you are from. If you are in an area hit hard by EAB there may be a firewood glut which in turn drives prices way down and really limits your profitability.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

All depends on what you have to start out with and how far you want to go into it. I'm not going to ridicule someone that only has 50k to start from scratch, but I can tell you it will be really tight for a while.

Now I am talking starting a firewood business where your income is dependent on that. Not a "side job" to do after a day job, on weekends, etc. That is a hobby as defined by the IRS.

At the bare minimum IMO to be profitable with regular firewood you need...

Land to have the processor and log stockpile
Processor
Dumptruck
piece of equipment to load and move logs (skid steer, tractor, front end loader, backhoe, etc)
Tools to take care of repairs
Chainsaw
Chain grinder
PPE

Probably a few other things I can't think of, but all of that will burn up 50k in a hurry.

Can a person sell wood with less? Sure. I did it by myself with a chainsaw and a small splitter the first year I started. I used a trailer I already owned, just put sides on it and towed it with my pickup. I worked hard, and some mornings I could barely button my jeans because my hands and arms hurt so bad from holding a chainsaw all day.
On a good day I could process 2 cords, but if I pushed that hard, the next day I was going to be hurting. My best week was 10 cords cut, split and delivered. Delivering meant unloading by hand too.

Now with equipment I can do what I did in a week in a day and I'm not killing myself in the process.

 

[flotek]

I admire your determination that is a rarity these days ..but there is some truth to an old saying that Firewood has and always will be "a poor mans business " . The more potential for profit requires a lot more of the initial investment and by default a lot more risk .There's only so much one guy can do with a splitter a saw and a truck and it's extremely labor intensive . Sadly Your probably better off getting a job at your local mr donut when you consider Time versus true income . Plus you'll get free coffee

 

[moondoggie]

I admire your determination but there is some truth to an old saying that Firewood has and always will be "a poor mans business " .

You can pay for hot water.....

 

[bigblue12v]

In case anyone missed it, I didn't realize my initial post was misleading. I should have titled it "selling some firewood". I am not looking to go into it full time. Thanks for all of the good replies, I'm pretty sure they're enough to shoot down any notions or wild hairs I may get lol

 

[muddstopper]

One of the best solutions I have ever seen for hauling your own logs was the old bigStick loaders. I grew up pulling cable for one of those old loaders, first cutting 5ft pulp wood and later saw logs. Daddy bought his first one around 1965or6 The old cable loaders had there ups and downs, but you could drive the truck up to a site and if you could get within 200ft of a tree, you could cut and load it. Biggest disadvantage I guess to one of those old trucks and loaders would have been capacity. You could haul about 2-2.5 cords on a longwheel base ton truck if you added a tandem. 2ton trucks 3.5-4 cords with a tandem. You needed someone to drag cable or endup climbing up and down a ladder all day. I dont know if they still even make those old loaders anymore, Havent seen a new one in years. Still a few old ones around and their usually reasonably cheap. Best rig i have seen for clearing house sites. You could set in the middle of the lot and load every tree. Get the truck loaded and then snatch the tops to one pile for burning. (I wasnt worried about firewood back then). Had a tree that didnt want to fall where you wanted it, just rig up the cable and pull it the way you wanted it to go. I have even ran the cable down the middle of a creek, cut all the brush letting it fall on the cable and then flip the cable over top of the brush, winched it up with the loader and carried it to the brush pile. should could make short work of clearing a creek bank. For a small time firewood operation, I think I would at least give one of those old loaders some consideration. https://www.google.com/search?q=big...2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D56172.0;549;412

 

[bigblue12v]

One of the best solutions I have ever seen for hauling your own logs was the old bigStick loaders. I grew up pulling cable for one of those old loaders, first cutting 5ft pulp wood and later saw logs. Daddy bought his first one around 1965or6 The old cable loaders had there ups and downs, but you could drive the truck up to a site and if you could get within 200ft of a tree, you could cut and load it. Biggest disadvantage I guess to one of those old trucks and loaders would have been capacity. You could haul about 2-2.5 cords on a longwheel base ton truck if you added a tandem. 2ton trucks 3.5-4 cords with a tandem. You needed someone to drag cable or endup climbing up and down a ladder all day. I dont know if they still even make those old loaders anymore, Havent seen a new one in years. Still a few old ones around and their usually reasonably cheap. Best rig i have seen for clearing house sites. You could set in the middle of the lot and load every tree. Get the truck loaded and then snatch the tops to one pile for burning. (I wasnt worried about firewood back then). Had a tree that didnt want to fall where you wanted it, just rig up the cable and pull it the way you wanted it to go. I have even ran the cable down the middle of a creek, cut all the brush letting it fall on the cable and then flip the cable over top of the brush, winched it up with the loader and carried it to the brush pile. should could make short work of clearing a creek bank. For a small time firewood operation, I think I would at least give one of those old loaders some consideration. https://www.google.com/search?q=big...2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D56172.0;549;412

That sounds like an interesting set up, I'm curious to see one now.

 

[muddstopper]

That sounds like an interesting set up, I'm curious to see one now.

I added a link to one in my post

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Your link just opens a page with all sorts of random photos... self loading log trucks, skid steers, tractors, front end loaders, Derrick trucks, etc.

 

[muddstopper]

Your link just opens a page with all sorts of random photos... self loading log trucks, skid steers, tractors, front end loaders, Derrick trucks, etc.

I clicked it and it did load random pics and then about a second later it went straight to the one with the loader. Dont know what to tell you

I clicked it again and all the random pic are below the pic I intended, try scrolling up after the link opens

 

[bigblue12v]

Yea I got all kinds of log trucks but not really certain if any were the kind you're actually talking about.

 

[muddstopper]

try this one, same truck, http://www.*****************/board/index.php?topic=56172.0 Well, I guess I aint allowed to post that link

 

[bigblue12v]

AS censored the link so it doesn't display or pop up correctly...

 

[muddstopper]

Lets try youtube, Tow differnt cable loaders here, one has the boom in the middle of the bed to load wood front and back ricks and the other has the log loader that is mounted just behind the cab. There is also a knuckle boom loader, but disregard it as it isnt a cable loader.