Firewood Processor Questions

[NSMaple1]

Àre you going to change up the way you do things? Above you say you cut to rounds then haul out & split. And can't take gear in. Half of what a processor does is make rounds, and they work with logs. So I'm not seeing how a processor will help you much unless you pretty well completely change the way you do every thing?

 

[cantoo]

NSMaple1, that's what I was getting at. The costs for logs will be a lot more than the manual labor he is doing now. Like I said logs here are $90 a cord, that takes a big chunk out of the $140 right there. Some pics or details of your operation now would be nice. I only work wood when I have time and it takes awhile to get it from the standing tree to the splitting table. At least 1/2 of my time is getting the stuff home so 500 a cord is a lot of man hours and if your can't use tractor etc in the bush than that's a lot of weight on your shoulders, literally on your shoulders.

 

[NSMaple1]

There was also earlier mention that a processor would allow you to hit the bigger markets. How? What is preventing doing that now? I still say the first thing I would do is up my prices some. Being run ragged with large volume while turning away even larger volume because you can't fill the demand seems to be a pretty big sign of a needed pricing adjustment.

 

[fireemt799]

I don't see how you can do 500 cords a year like that.

Truck with rack holds a cord and a half. Truck bed trailer holds 1 cord. Cut half a cord per hour. Add 3 hours loading. 200 days of cutting equals 500 cords. Add in about an hour a day unloading and 45 minutes each way travel time. Less than 12 hours a day of working.

Àre you going to change up the way you do things? Above you say you cut to rounds then haul out & split. And can't take gear in. Half of what a processor does is make rounds, and they work with logs. So I'm not seeing how a processor will help you much unless you pretty well completely change the way you do every thing?

Yes a processor will change how I do stuff. I can haul the processor out to the woods behind my truck. It takes 12 foot logs. I can work along cow trails etc. and drag the logs to the processor. The processor has a log lift to load the logs and a conveyor. The processor will cut and split the logs and convey them up into the dump truck to be stacked. The processor saves me 2 days a week in splitting. It also produces in a little over an hour what I can do in a day. There are some areas I could use a log arch on a four wheeler to haul logs to the processor but nothing larger.

NSMaple1, that's what I was getting at. The costs for logs will be a lot more than the manual labor he is doing now. Like I said logs here are $90 a cord, that takes a big chunk out of the $140 right there. Some pics or details of your operation now would be nice. I only work wood when I have time and it takes awhile to get it from the standing tree to the splitting table. At least 1/2 of my time is getting the stuff home so 500 a cord is a lot of man hours and if your can't use tractor etc in the bush than that's a lot of weight on your shoulders, literally on your shoulders.

I don't pay for logs as I said before I do my own logging. I pay $7 a cord for a commercial permit to cut down the trees plus the cost of cutting them. Juniper are small trees that a 12 foot log would work perfect for. This is my what I do for a living so I don't have to wait for time to do it. As said above a processor saves me 2 days a week in splitting and does in a little over an hour what I do in a day.

There was also earlier mention that a processor would allow you to hit the bigger markets. How? What is preventing doing that now? I still say the first thing I would do is up my prices some. Being run ragged with large volume while turning away even larger volume because you can't fill the demand seems to be a pretty big sign of a needed pricing adjustment.

I live in a very rural area, the entire population of the county is under 5,000 that is the 7th largest in land size in the country and larger than several states. There isn't a Mcdonalds, walmart or any big box store within 100 miles of me. I have a 150 mile drive one way to hit one market and 400 miles one way to others. I can hit these markets by sending 14 cords at a time on a semi. Doing it by hand including splitting it would take a couple of weeks to fill a semi. Add in my local orders and it takes longer to get a semi filled. With a processor I could fill a semi in 2 days and cut for my local orders 2 or 3 days. It comes down to economy of scale. Produce more with a processor in a shorter amount of time and be able to hit other markets and fill my orders here. Also allows for a larger income that can be reinvested into other equipment such as a pellet mill and others to diversify the business and make better profits.

 

[Hddnis]

Sounds like you have a system that is working for you, but looking to increase production while decreasing effort and hours invested? That is the basis of business everywhere.

Usually you can increase prices 5-10% without affecting your market share.

If you can make more selling to higher priced areas then I would quit selling local and sell to the higher priced areas.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Truck with rack holds a cord and a half. Truck bed trailer holds 1 cord. Cut half a cord per hour. Add 3 hours loading. 200 days of cutting equals 500 cords. Add in about an hour a day unloading and 45 minutes each way travel time. Less than 12 hours a day of working.


Yes a processor will change how I do stuff. I can haul the processor out to the woods behind my truck. It takes 12 foot logs. I can work along cow trails etc. and drag the logs to the processor. The processor has a log lift to load the logs and a conveyor. The processor will cut and split the logs and convey them up into the dump truck to be stacked. The processor saves me 2 days a week in splitting. It also produces in a little over an hour what I can do in a day. There are some areas I could use a log arch on a four wheeler to haul logs to the processor but nothing larger.


I don't pay for logs as I said before I do my own logging. I pay $7 a cord for a commercial permit to cut down the trees plus the cost of cutting them. Juniper are small trees that a 12 foot log would work perfect for. This is my what I do for a living so I don't have to wait for time to do it. As said above a processor saves me 2 days a week in splitting and does in a little over an hour what I do in a day.



I live in a very rural area, the entire population of the county is under 5,000 that is the 7th largest in land size in the country and larger than several states. There isn't a Mcdonalds, walmart or any big box store within 100 miles of me. I have a 150 mile drive one way to hit one market and 400 miles one way to others. I can hit these markets by sending 14 cords at a time on a semi. Doing it by hand including splitting it would take a couple of weeks to fill a semi. Add in my local orders and it takes longer to get a semi filled. With a processor I could fill a semi in 2 days and cut for my local orders 2 or 3 days. It comes down to economy of scale. Produce more with a processor in a shorter amount of time and be able to hit other markets and fill my orders here. Also allows for a larger income that can be reinvested into other equipment such as a pellet mill and others to diversify the business and make better profits.

So 9.5hrs to get 2.5 cords of rounds into your truck. What about unloading, splitting it, reloading and delivering?
You say you do 2.5 cords a day, but then it would take weeks to fill 14 cords on a demi truck? It should take les than a week by your numbers.

I'm just trying to do the math because it doesn't work out. We are 3 guys combined between 2 operations with a feller buncher, stroke delimber, 2 skidders, 2 dozers, 2 log trucks, 2 skid steers, 2 processors and 8 delivery trucks and do not much more than you. Most days I put in 12-14hrs, some days 18, some days 8.
My best day was 6 cords cut, split, stacked in a truck and delivered. That was with 3 guys.

You do pay for logs, you said $7/cord. That is about what I pay for standing timber as well. Lot of costs and man hours to go from a woods of trees to logs in a deck ready for a processor to turn into firewood. On an average day with 2 guys we can do about 30 cords, cut, delimbed and decked.

 

[fireemt799]

So 9.5hrs to get 2.5 cords of rounds into your truck. What about unloading, splitting it, reloading and delivering?
You say you do 2.5 cords a day, but then it would take weeks to fill 14 cords on a demi truck? It should take les than a week by your numbers.

I'm just trying to do the math because it doesn't work out. We are 3 guys combined between 2 operations with a feller buncher, stroke delimber, 2 skidders, 2 dozers, 2 log trucks, 2 skid steers, 2 processors and 8 delivery trucks and do not much more than you. Most days I put in 12-14hrs, some days 18, some days 8.
My best day was 6 cords cut, split, stacked in a truck and delivered. That was with 3 guys.

You do pay for logs, you said $7/cord. That is about what I pay for standing timber as well. Lot of costs and man hours to go from a woods of trees to logs in a deck ready for a processor to turn into firewood. On an average day with 2 guys we can do about 30 cords, cut, delimbed and decked.

I have said multiple times I spend 2 days a week splitting and delivering. The processor saves me those 2 days a week. Yes I pay $7 for the permit but he kept saying my numbers don't add up because I am not adding in at least $90 a cord for logs when I do my own logging. I have spent 14 years building a business with repeat customers that order from only me year after year. I don't want to lose those customers and with my current order volume I can't keep up with those orders and fill semis at the same time. Those markets fluctuate and aren't as reliable as my repeat customers. If I focused on only those markets and not my regular customers and something changes I could be in big trouble.

 

[KiwiBro]

I have said multiple times I spend 2 days a week splitting and delivering. The processor saves me those 2 days a week. Yes I pay $7 for the permit but he kept saying my numbers don't add up because I am not adding in at least $90 a cord for logs when I do my own logging. I have spent 14 years building a business with repeat customers that order from only me year after year. I don't want to lose those customers and with my current order volume I can't keep up with those orders and fill semis at the same time. Those markets fluctuate and aren't as reliable as my repeat customers. If I focused on only those markets and not my regular customers and something changes I could be in big trouble.

Up your standard rate and offer a 'repeat customer discount' to bring the latter back to current rates?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

One of my bigger "slowdowns" is deliveries. I'm not sure how you can deliver ~10 cords in roughly a day in a setup that can only hold 2.5 cords.

That's 4 trips... 3 hrs to load, 2 hrs to unload... 20hrs... plus drive time.

I get lots of 1-2 cord orders, some take 3+ hrs to deliver. I charge for delivery, but unless I have the "perfect storm" with a few trucks all loaded and customers staggered on delivery times it's rare I can do more than 2 deliveries in a day. More often I get customers than can only take it after 6pm or on a certain day.

I dunno, I still think 500 cords is quite optimistic for a guy with just a pickup, saw and splitter.

 

[NSMaple1]

Think I also read posted that you're doing 300 cords now, and this would allow a jump to 500? And you would hire 2 helpers. Would 200 cords cover those? 2 helpers at $15/hr (think I read that too) would be around $60,000/yr, 200 cords at $140 is only $28,000/yr with other expense to cover. Has been a lot posted in this thread, I could have wires crossed...

 

[DSW]

I reread it because I wasn't sure either. He said he's "turning down" 500 cord. If they are working full time it's 62 grand costs for a jump of 70 grand gross. Plenty of other variables though.

 

[fireemt799]

Delivering 2 days a week, Friday and Saturday when people are home is only 5 to 6 cords per day. I have very short drive time and only toss them over the fence on most of the deliveries. On the labor rate that is for the processor. 500 cords in 250 hours. That's only $3,750 a person in labor costs per year. Like I said perfect for a retired person who wants a little extra to do. Also with a processor I can fill the dump truck with 4 cords straight from the processor and go deliver saving a ton of time. My average order is 5 cords. I know I work more than most but have to. I have a heart condition where my heart beats too fast and to strong. They have slowed it down some but if I don't work I have a bunch of problems and usually a heart attack if I sit around too much. Working hard keeps me healthy as crazy as it sounds

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Dyna makes a processor with a log lift. Made in Evert, Michigan. Can't tell you much about them. Pretty sure the log trough is chain feed.
For greater production support equipment of some sort would really speed things up and reduce the physical labor. A log arch works well, but they are fairly slow when converting to cords of wood. And a quad is a very limited, light duty tool for production firewood. Not that it can't be done. A used skid steer, tractor w/front end loader, or something would be much "more gooder". Good luck to you.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

2 cord an hr with a little processor like you linked isnt happening.

It's doable with a medium processor, like a Blockbuster 18-20, Cord King 60, etc but we are talking 40-60k area.

I'd plan on around .5 cord an hr, maybe closer to a cord an hr if someone is feeding it logs while someone else runs it.

Never mind you'll have a hell of a dead arm running that manual saw.

 

[fireemt799]

2 cord an hr with a little processor like you linked isnt happening.

It's doable with a medium processor, like a Blockbuster 18-20, Cord King 60, etc but we are talking 40-60k area.

I'd plan on around .5 cord an hr, maybe closer to a cord an hr if someone is feeding it logs while someone else runs it.

Never mind you'll have a hell of a dead arm running that manual saw.

I have seen both the blockbuster and cord king run on juniper and they don't work well at all. The chain constantly plugs up and won't feed. I don't know which processor you looked at. There is nothing manual on the wood beaver 18 bad a beaver. Its not a cheap machine like the blacks creek I posted. It is rated in production right up there with processors you mentioned and has the belt feed that will work with juniper. Wood beaver is made by multitek and I have never heard anything bad about them

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I was talking about the Black Creek 2000 that you were asking about.

Wood Beaver is owned by Multitek, not made by them, at least not at this point. They bought them just recently actually. I tried to buy a Wood Beaver bundler some years ago (that's what they started out doing) and the owner was a grade A douche. Hopefully he's gone now.

Had a small Multitek processor for a while, it didn't work that great. Splitter was too light duty and the rubber conveyor belt wasn't any good in the cold, rain or even with wet wood.

I'm not familiar with juniper as a firewood, it only grew as bushes like sagebrush where I lived. Talk to Blockbuster though. If the only hold back is the chain feed, they can custom build to your needs. Sam, Tim and Tony over there are great folks.
We run a 15-20 and 18-20, have about 10,000 hrs combined between the 2 machines.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I Googled juniper. Says the trees grow to only ~10ft tall? What dbh are they?

 

[cantoo]

After doing a google search my hat is off to you. If you can do 300 cords of that wood a year than you are a much better man than me. I'm not even sure there is a processor made than work be anywhere near efficient with that wood. Processors like pecker poles and these are the farthest from pecker poles that I have ever seen.

 

[fireemt799]

Have Utah juniper here and they do get a little taller than that but not much. They do have a lot of a taper. Base at 18 inches 10 foot up it is 6 inches. It takes 15 to 20 trees to make a cord on average. The branches are the biggest pain but figure I could cut the branches for bundles and put the main beam on a processor. Also cut pinyon pine which will increase production. All production for wood beaver has been moved to multitek and that's how I heard of them. Juniper is a pain but at 26.4 million b.t.u.s a cord it is a great wood.

 

[cantoo]

fireemt, not to sound like a broken record but I don't think processors are made for those kind of trees. Too much taper for a multi wedge to work well, unless it's a really easy quick on the fly height change wedge. I think the Australian vertical splitters are the best you will get. Chainsaw cutter that cuts the logs into rounds and then the vertical splitter to split them the size you want with a conveyor to load the splits. Aussie chopper, timber devil etc. I made my own 4 way 36" splitter for my owb and it can be a pain using different sized logs let alone the taper you have to deal with.