Forest firefighter ??

[smokechase II]

5.5 times

The new shelters are certainly not 5 times more effective at stopping convective heat.
The old shelters did well when limiting radiant heat.
The problem is we have no way of predicting convective heat. So we cannot say how much land needs to be set aside for X many people to safely deploy a shelter free from convective heat. (Picture how complicated this gets on different slopes, in different fuels, drought, time of day, wind etc.).

The aluminum outer skin reflects well, (95% of radiant heat is reflected back), but it fails at under 1200 degrees F. Wildland fires exceed that by many hundreds of degrees. So when the old shelter received convective heat it failed relatively quickly. The newer shelter will last a bit longer.

But the new shelter is by no means a guarentee.

The fire shelter is like a seat belt, hard hat, chain brake etc. No guarantee but certainly a good idea.

 

[adkranger]

The new shelters are certainly not 5 times more effective at stopping convective heat.
The old shelters did well when limiting radiant heat.
The problem is we have no way of predicting convective heat. So we cannot say how much land needs to be set aside for X many people to safely deploy a shelter free from convective heat. (Picture how complicated this gets on different slopes, in different fuels, drought, time of day, wind etc.).

The aluminum outer skin reflects well, (95% of radiant heat is reflected back), but it fails at under 1200 degrees F. Wildland fires exceed that by many hundreds of degrees. So when the old shelter received convective heat it failed relatively quickly. The newer shelter will last a bit longer.

But the new shelter is by no means a guarentee.

The fire shelter is like a seat belt, hard hat, chain brake etc. No guarantee but certainly a good idea.

Hey Smoke, the new shelters any different to handle, weight, size and such? Likely it'll be awhile till my State decides to replace our "perfectly serviceable" shelters. Plus we all know we don't burn anyways, wink, wink, nod.

 

[Fumbler]

The new shelters are almost twice as bulky and probably 1.5 times as heavy...and they are actually smaller in size.
Your buddys better make sure they bring theirs into the woods. I'd hate to have to cram two people into them.
They actually come in a large size now. I'm 5'-8" and I fit perfectly into the new regular sized shelters and it's very easy for me to get into.
The taller and horizontally challenged people have a difficult time fitting into a regular new one.

One good thing is once you get in the shelter it's a little easier to seal the sides compared to the old ones.

Like smokechase said, both the old and new ones reflect radiant heat well (the new ones probably a tiny bit better).
Both will fail with convective heat, but the new ones are less likely to peel apart.

 

[adkranger]

Like smokechase said, both the old and new ones reflect radiant heat well (the new ones probably a tiny bit better).
Both will fail with convective heat, but the new ones are less likely to peel apart.

But that delamination thing was pretty serious on piece of safety equipment that is a last line of defense item. If I ever have to use one, I want the best one ever made, hopefully not manufactured on Monday morn or Friday afternoon if you catch me.........

 

[Fumbler]

Since most of yall don't know what's happening in the world of wildland firefighting I thought I'd post a little info.

The west has gotten off on an early start with their fire season and it almost seems to me that there are an above average number of near misses. Just in the last few days:

-West Basin Fire, Nevada July 7, a crewboss who was scouting ahead of the handcrew was burned over and sustained burn injuries
-Albaugh Fire, S Dakota, July 8, two crewmen from the Black Hills National Forest had to deploy a shelter when the winds shifted and increased during a burnout operation. Yes, I said two guys deployed A shelter. The accident report said "a shelter" but I hope they both had all of their PPE.
-Inyo Complex, California, an engine strike team with 9 total crewmen was burned over. All deployed shelters, 3 had minor injuries, one engine was totalled.

within the last week:
-a BIA SEAT had to make an emergency landing at the Pine Ridge Indian Reserve, no injuries
-a privately operated SEAT on the Egley Complex in Oregon had to make an emergency landing, pilot suffered minor injuries
-a Skycrane (now this is one bad a$$ firefighting helicopter) tipped over during takeoff at the Zaca Fire in California. both pilots had minor injuries
-one civilian died on the Alabaugh Fire as he tried to protect his house. He was asked to evacuate but wouldn't.

It's sad when I get the accident report emails. It's especially sad when you hear about someone getting burned over and they clearly weren't following the 10 standard firefighting orders or 18 watchout situations.

And, it really ticks me off to hear someone get killed over insured property.

 

[Brush Hog]

Wow, some very interesting info. This is the type of info I was hoping for when I started this thread. I hope all who work as a forest fire fighter never have to deploy theirs. Thanks for doing your job.
Pete

 

[Mitchell]

good thread

I spent many summers clearing dangerous trees so the crews could work safely on fires. My most impressive memory was from the 1994 Garnet fire [lit by the fire chiefs son of all people!] on the foothills and urban interface of Penticton BC. Standing on a ridge over looking the valley the fire started in I witnessed a 60' looking tree being swirled up into 300 foot flames; awesome power that no words can describe.
I packed a fire shelter myself although some I knew that were required to have one would carry the hard plastic case with nothing in it or use it as a lunch box! I got used to carrying the thing so even on mop up stages of fires I had it. I came close on two occasions to deploying. Both times I dropped my gear and ran [for my life literally] into a freshly burned out area that although was still on fire the fine fuels [and big BTU releasing] were burnt off. I lost a a couple good husky 288's each time; nothing left but the crank, starter spring, B/C and a glob of aluminum.
The feeling with the guys I worked with was we would rather die running then bake in the shelter.
As any one knows who has worked close to one of those beasts when their up and running you only have seconds [and not many at that] to decide to scratch a deployment pad to mineral earth or run. In my two cases being as I was in a thick forest scratching a pad to dirt was not an option. That was the logic folks used to justify pretending to carrying them as well.
Also it may be of interest to others to know that the nomex 3 shirt and pants i wore are still my best tree climbing gear. Its tuff, durable, dries very fast, resistant to scratches and tears and does not fade out in the wash.