Friction devices aloft

[coydog]

There doesn't need to be controversy. If someone wants to add value to this thread by bringing in factual data, something solid to justify your fault-finding, critical stance, then that is entirely welcome here. If you want to spout off with some emotional knee-jerk reaction, then bugger off.

If there are limitations, I'll be very open in sharing and listening to creative ways of improving.

There really can't be any informed controversy or specific critique unless we are allowed to have an open discussion.You can insinuate and leave hints all day but every time you actually try to share your technique you are censored, so it really leaves us guessing except that you have a technique for lowering off your saddle without a groundie untying your branches. I can think of a half dozen ways you could be doing this but it's all speculation. I personally would not advocate lowering with my line or with a device attached from my saddle but I would be very interested to see what you are doing and perhaps get an idea that I could innovate from. That's why I like this site and continue to visit, to get ideas and see what others are doing. And yes Tom I know of the other sites but as far as I'm aware this particular discussion is not being shared elsewhere either. besides I like this site.

 

[Tree Machine]

I can think of a half dozen ways you could be doing this but it's all speculation.

That right there hits the doggie on the noodle. We have all done this stuff, in one form or another. All the readers here (What'r we up to? About 17 or so? ) will be able to go out and try this, and with some understanding of how much quicker your rigging and lowering times can be, they may start employing the practice, mingling it into their bag of tricks when appropriate.

The problem we all need to understand (at the expense of repeating myself) that guy's will go with bigger limbs until there are accidents. We just don't want this to happen. Next is that you can use the same method of lowering limbs as with rapelling. Noobies who haven't gotten into the friction hitch thing will see the appeal and use it for rappel / descent, as well as lowering limbs. The problem with that is that they're noobies and this device doesn't actually exist, though we're all packing something close enough that you can all go out and try it for real. This unmodified, off-the-shelf piece has limitations and without spelling them out, I would be irresponsible in letting you think these methods are OK to use.

Method for lowering limb = A-OK
Method for abseil= Not OK (not yet, but we can describe a device where this could be OK)

 

[xtremetrees]

I dont like speedlinning because of the fishing pole effect. Lets say your sppedlinning a long limb and the tip of the limb hist the ground first frocing the dynamics of the movement of the limb ie speed back intot he line itself. THe effect is the same when hanging large trees, everthing goes well until the apex is reached and unless the tree limb your rigging with is larger than the tree your hanging it will fail. The bounce of two fishing poles will be disatterous bro you cant expect tree to withsatnd that much force they will blow right up on you and wham! limb breakage or in your case speedlinning fishing pole effect in two places.

 

[xtremetrees]

You seem very xperienced at this TM. What would you say to speedlinning leaning trees do you get the twisting motion? Is it like standing atop a cobra's head as it twist left to right? I wouldnt subject that kinda force to trees alot expecially hollow ones because the cylinder strengths we all come to rely on on hollow trees would be compromised.

 

[xtremetrees]

I'm gonna start calling TM the PetzlFanBoy. lol

Tm you have done absolutely everything with nothing for so long you can now do nothing with everything. Thats smooth operator to me bro,

 

[Tree Machine]

Hey X,

Speedlining is a really good topic to bring up, #1 because it involves using a device aloft to lower limbs, just you lower them at an angle. #2 the method I use is just about identical to the solo limb lowering.

For TM, though, speedlining is a 2-man job (you need someone to send your slings back up). Since I always anchor to the chipper, I have someone to feed brush just for the efficiency. I do the setting of the rope right there aloft, tension and de-tension. (I would be happy to show you how).


The way you describe the possible doom of trees twisting and spars fish-poling tells me the material you are working with is too big. I don't use speedlining unless called for because of the choice of other faster ways.
TM really doesn't rig unless he has to.

Did you hear me Xtreme? You are RIGGING TOO BIG. This is the safety point I keep coming back around to. Even when you master the art of friction control and you're getting very confident, you'll lower what you have to lower, but you'll find by experience what is 'too big'.

When you get really swift with lowering stuff out of the treetops, I promise you will never want a groundman to handle a rope again because in the time it takes to voice what you want the groundman to do, you could have yourself rigged and started the saw. The setup is remarkably fast, and you take your time while doing the cut and be ready to kill saw and belay most immediately. I have much to say about that critical moment of crossover. It is one of my favorite places. That's when you're in the crucible.

It naturally becomes fast when you don't have to involve a second person in the process. You just need to accept this method as small limb, like no more than 2 or three times your weight.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm gonna start calling TM the PetzlFanBoy. lol

I'm anything but exclusive to Petzl. The friction controller I use is not by Petzl. I like everybody, esp, DMM and KONG and some Black Diamond stuff.

Petzl would never, ever approve a device to be used for lowering limbs out of the tree. I mean, never. They're not even part of this discussion.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm finished with the safety disclaimers.

If you choose to lower limbs from aloft BE SAFE. Common sense will rule. If you don't use your head you'll create your own problems.

There. I'm done.







Shall we see if the censors are hawking in?

 

[Tree Machine]

Hey, :censored: you


you :censored:ing



:censored:!

 

[Tree Machine]

Ahhh, alive and well.


That would make a good bumper sticker, Censor you, you censoring censor






Let's give it a try.

 

[xtremetrees]

so your using an ATC. air traffic controller?

 

[Mikkel Ravn]

The Lock-block

Hi all,
I'm a new member to this site, but have been reading along for a couple of years. I'm a part-time pro residing in Denmark.

Just wondering if anyone has checked out the Lock-Block? Seems it would be well suited for lowering while aloft:

http://www.verticalpro.net/lockblock.html

If anyone's used this, what do you think?

 

[xtremetrees]

Dude thats the bomb. I really like that device and how it doesnt double the load like a pully does. Ive never seen this device used in our industry.anywhere kool gear imma order one.

 

[trevmcrev]

Ahhh, alive and well.


That would make a good bumper sticker, Censor you, you censoring censor.

I have a t shirt with that on it

Trev

 

[Tree Machine]

Hi Mikkel! Welcome to Arborisite.

So cool that you could step in and contribute. A most Excellent link. I had come across that device about a year ago. I forgot to bookmark it and , whatever, I lost it. And there it is!

Thank you, Mikkel. That nugget from Denmark and an F you, you F-ing F T-shirt confirmation from my friend Trev in Australia. We're getting contributors from around the world.... I think we're up to about 23 readers now who give a crap about lowering limbs out of trees.

 

[Tree Machine]

Mikkel's reference - LockBlock

This could work for a lot of guys......

The stuff I'm going to show you is simpler and more boiled-down, but the concept, relative to the lock block is identical; controlling friction with absolute precision and control. The lock block will just let you do the things I'm telling you NOT to do. With the lockblock, I would put that on a 1 M rated sling and just choker it wherever. This would be a cool device, I am willing to try it, but I doubt I'll use it much. I'm the kind of climber who likes to climb way out to the tips and start cutting there. I rarely rig big limbage, but I'd be quite tempted to keep it in the tool arsenal for when big is appropriate.


Just remember, guys, the bigger you rig and cut and control yourself, the more the potential for disaster. We all know this.


The methods I'll describe are for where you're over super sensitive areas, like slate roofs, copper gutters, glass greenhouses; where you need to rig it out piece by piece until you solve the problem. It may, in those moments, not matter how much time it takes, only that the piece-out is done with precision, confidence and total control of what you're doing.

Control of friction, masterful work positioning. Proper rigging scenarios, precision cutting.

Don't you just LOVE being a treeguy????

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

That is Dave Spenscer's company; he has been on and off arbo boards for a decade. He helped do leverage of lean, DWT and speedline tension force calculators on my site.

Device offers free pull for pretightening direction, but friction in lowering direction. Usually you either have good pretightening, or good lowering friction, this gives both of best worlds. i use a round turn on support with a remote sweating line at center for pretightening, then let the roundturn handle the friction on lowering for somewhat of a similar effect.

 

[Gumneck]

"I'm the kind of climber who likes to climb way out to the tips and start cutting there."


Hey TM,


Great reading here. In light of the above quote, how would you get say an upright growing pine limb that you couldn't necessarily climb out on but was bigger than you wanted to rig down? Maybe a poor question...

 

[xtremetrees]

Is it rated for 100 lb loads? How would it handlling shock loading and double the weightwould GRSC device be required below?. How the above device accept larger diameter ropes?

Any catching of the rope in the sheves or cheekplates? What is light to medium rigging rating? I know I shouldn't be asking

Treespyder would you believe I met a "Legend" today.

TM do you use one of those?

 

[Gumneck]

"I'm the kind of climber who likes to climb way out to the tips and start cutting there."


Hey TM,


Great reading here. In light of the above quote, how would you get say an upright growing pine limb that you couldn't necessarily climb out on but was bigger than you wanted to rig down? Maybe a poor question...

TM,
Maybe a pic for example: