Friction devices aloft
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This dang system of interwoven instead of sequential posts is tough to keep up on and find what sub categories of a topic are listed up in hierarchy above fer my tastes.
Tree Machine
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Then let's stay on topic, which is about lowering limbs from aloft.
Gumneck, I would limb it out, then bring the 395 up for an hour or two of entertainment and sawdust making. I would leave any thing bigger than 6" diameter up in the air. Brush gets processed one way, wood, another, and I try not to mingle them on big takedowns.
But on Gum's question, supposing ALL those limbs had to be lowered. A Lock Block would be an Excellent choice. I would carry a rated lifting sling, the LockBlock and a steel locking caribiner and have a grand 'ol time. The Lock Block would be perfect for taking Gum's pine apart. In the smaller-scale system I'll show you, many time I incorporate the tree limb or crotch into the friction scenario. On a conifer, that's a bad idea, pitch and stick ropes. The Lock Block keeps the rope off the tree.
Do I own one? No. Do I want one?, yes. Will I buy one?, yes. Absolutely. This fits perfectly into the way I handle friction aloft, it just give mme the option to go bigger with the same precision control of frictio coming out of my hand. I will still use what I use, but the Lock Block will find a happy home here. Rigging goes far beyond the treetops and I'll find all kinds of nifty ways to use it.
Gumneck, I would limb it out, then bring the 395 up for an hour or two of entertainment and sawdust making. I would leave any thing bigger than 6" diameter up in the air. Brush gets processed one way, wood, another, and I try not to mingle them on big takedowns.
But on Gum's question, supposing ALL those limbs had to be lowered. A Lock Block would be an Excellent choice. I would carry a rated lifting sling, the LockBlock and a steel locking caribiner and have a grand 'ol time. The Lock Block would be perfect for taking Gum's pine apart. In the smaller-scale system I'll show you, many time I incorporate the tree limb or crotch into the friction scenario. On a conifer, that's a bad idea, pitch and stick ropes. The Lock Block keeps the rope off the tree.
Do I own one? No. Do I want one?, yes. Will I buy one?, yes. Absolutely. This fits perfectly into the way I handle friction aloft, it just give mme the option to go bigger with the same precision control of frictio coming out of my hand. I will still use what I use, but the Lock Block will find a happy home here. Rigging goes far beyond the treetops and I'll find all kinds of nifty ways to use it.
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'd love to cut your pine tree in 3 cuts. Not including the stubb, which I'd throw:deadhorse:
woodchux
Addicted to ArboristSite
Does anyone know the price on one of those "loc blocks" ?
I can't find a price anywhere , but i'd like to try one out.
I can't find a price anywhere , but i'd like to try one out.
Didn't mean to sidetrack the thread. I was just curious how TM would handle the upright large pine limb since he normally climbs out to the tips. I thought that was still with the subject since it involves his method to his madness.
I don't think Dave ever finished the Lock Block. As far as I know, it is not yet available for sale.
TM, I like lowering small loads myself often, but I have great rigging crew including groundies. We rig big stuff, use a PW 3, GRCS, and Hobbs....
And my methods of speedlining require ground tensioning...much better, I'd think, than your technique, though I'd like to see it....I often make use of a large rope bight to turn and/or lift limbs using only a speedline. This requires at least a mid tie point, and either a couple guys on the line pulling the bight out of the line which can be up to 15 feet of slack. With a big limb, this can be done with a z-pulley...or even better, the chipper winch. When speedlining heavy loads or applying lots of tension, one much always assure that the anchor points are bomb proof- if not, guying back the tree is wise.
PM me your email addy, we'll talk, though my time is at a premium of late...
TM, I like lowering small loads myself often, but I have great rigging crew including groundies. We rig big stuff, use a PW 3, GRCS, and Hobbs....
And my methods of speedlining require ground tensioning...much better, I'd think, than your technique, though I'd like to see it....I often make use of a large rope bight to turn and/or lift limbs using only a speedline. This requires at least a mid tie point, and either a couple guys on the line pulling the bight out of the line which can be up to 15 feet of slack. With a big limb, this can be done with a z-pulley...or even better, the chipper winch. When speedlining heavy loads or applying lots of tension, one much always assure that the anchor points are bomb proof- if not, guying back the tree is wise.
PM me your email addy, we'll talk, though my time is at a premium of late...
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks for hitting the thread RBTREE the rigging GOD! lol
I suspect as much from the block not being able to withstand our immence forces esp. shock loading but I like the idea of the lock block.
I will be uploading weekly videos in the picture forum. I gotta make more videos than MB and EKKA.. lol
When speedlinning heavy load RB do you guy back at your speedline rigging point? How does the tree react? Ive never guyed back for speedlinning TM have you? I dont like the forces of speedlinning esp when theload hits the ground.
I suspect as much from the block not being able to withstand our immence forces esp. shock loading but I like the idea of the lock block.
I will be uploading weekly videos in the picture forum. I gotta make more videos than MB and EKKA.. lol
When speedlinning heavy load RB do you guy back at your speedline rigging point? How does the tree react? Ive never guyed back for speedlinning TM have you? I dont like the forces of speedlinning esp when theload hits the ground.
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Rigging from aloft, using chipper winchesto tighten speedlines, and now GRSC & hobbs.
Sence the lock block isnt available, what other methods do you use to find friction aloft. Beside standard wrapping the rope around itself or threading it over limbs.
Sence the lock block isnt available, what other methods do you use to find friction aloft. Beside standard wrapping the rope around itself or threading it over limbs.
i like guying back for a speed line, sometimes even anchoring to tree behind me and guying it, then laying it across tree i'm working.
Mike Maas has talked of a Harken Block(?) i believe that has the 1 way feature.
i like stuff like RoundTurn with a remote sweat line in it for pretightening. This like the 1 way blocks allows me to pretighten hard and have high support friction too. This would be for pivoting branches around and laying into line, not impacting. The line tension helps keep it up and steer, the lack of elasticity from less rope before friction and pretightening keep it up and steer. Soemtimes i use the length of stick between hinge and hitch to leverage line even tighter as hinge is folding, to be super tight at tearoff. this also can force a stronger hinge to give stronger hinge and higher line tension at once. The portion of stick between hitch and hinge after tearoff, then becoming ballast for the heavier green end for more float, and load higher than if held upside down by end.
One way i do that is to lay load down into the tight line purposefully some on horizontal limbs, to be swept horizontally to side using it's weight and the distance between hitch and hinge to leverage rope tighter. Sometimes take that a step further, and kind fake to fold Left away from a support that is going to take it Right. Then the line can really tighten hard (if already tight), as it is moving further from support to stretch line, rather than moving load towards support to give line tension some relief! Then, as it folds Left on hinge and line tension builds, i will start backcutting towards Right, and let the line tensionpull the limb around.
i drew Rock Around the Clock Strategy for self tightening line before tearoff, and tighter steering in this Drawing for AS years ago
i maid attatched pic for something else, but shows the remote sweat and RoundTurn on support.
Mike Maas has talked of a Harken Block(?) i believe that has the 1 way feature.
i like stuff like RoundTurn with a remote sweat line in it for pretightening. This like the 1 way blocks allows me to pretighten hard and have high support friction too. This would be for pivoting branches around and laying into line, not impacting. The line tension helps keep it up and steer, the lack of elasticity from less rope before friction and pretightening keep it up and steer. Soemtimes i use the length of stick between hinge and hitch to leverage line even tighter as hinge is folding, to be super tight at tearoff. this also can force a stronger hinge to give stronger hinge and higher line tension at once. The portion of stick between hitch and hinge after tearoff, then becoming ballast for the heavier green end for more float, and load higher than if held upside down by end.
One way i do that is to lay load down into the tight line purposefully some on horizontal limbs, to be swept horizontally to side using it's weight and the distance between hitch and hinge to leverage rope tighter. Sometimes take that a step further, and kind fake to fold Left away from a support that is going to take it Right. Then the line can really tighten hard (if already tight), as it is moving further from support to stretch line, rather than moving load towards support to give line tension some relief! Then, as it folds Left on hinge and line tension builds, i will start backcutting towards Right, and let the line tensionpull the limb around.
i drew Rock Around the Clock Strategy for self tightening line before tearoff, and tighter steering in this Drawing for AS years ago
i maid attatched pic for something else, but shows the remote sweat and RoundTurn on support.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dave Spencer is a good friend of mine. He sent me prototypes of both Lock Blocks to use. They work very well. Finding a company to insure the manufacturing and use of such a specialized piece of equipment takes the profits out of the picture.
I've been lurking on this thread with a smile on my face. The basic solution is used all of the time. Hang a [fill in your favorite friction device here] in the tree and lower the limbs from above. Been doing that for years.
If the AS censors are truly wielding their power and deleting the discussion of a really basic rigging concept then this site has slid further down the slope. What would the purpose be of editing content?
TM...in plain language, what is your setup for above ground friction?
I've been lurking on this thread with a smile on my face. The basic solution is used all of the time. Hang a [fill in your favorite friction device here] in the tree and lower the limbs from above. Been doing that for years.
If the AS censors are truly wielding their power and deleting the discussion of a really basic rigging concept then this site has slid further down the slope. What would the purpose be of editing content?
TM...in plain language, what is your setup for above ground friction?
woodchux
Addicted to ArboristSite
The porta wrap mini could be used for solo lowering of limbs.
Just pull the slack rope back up after limb hits ground.View attachment 33310
Just pull the slack rope back up after limb hits ground.View attachment 33310
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tom Dunlap said:
As Tom says, guys have been lowering stuff from up in the tree, probably since the beginning of arboriculture.
In plain language, what is my setup? It varies a lot, but it's always quick, easily set up and taken down. In answering Tom's bottom line question,
Slings and Biners.
The simplest method for lowering limbs out of the tree is to toss the rope over a limb or through a crotch and hand-belay the limb down. This involves no friction device whatsoever, not even a sling or a caribiner, just the tree and your hand. This works perfectly well for small stuff over technically difficult places. I'll run the standing end through a caribiner, but only so I know right where it is, but it plays no role in handling friction. We don't worry so much about the friction we are creating on the limb because this simplest method is for small limbs.
It should be mentioned that this simplest of aerial lowering systems creates a 1:1 mechanical advantage. Also, the way it's described, the ground guy has to release the limb. The next one I'll show you is a 2:1, allowing you to work heavier loads.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tom Mentions something that should be pretty clear: "Overhead friction devices are nothing out of the ordinary really. We expect arbos to understand the loads developed in rigging systems. What difference does it make if the highest load is at the base of the tree on a rigging device or up in the tree on a different rigging device?"
Devices should be chosen based on the size of the limbs you are lowering; big devices for big limbs, which should be handled by groundmen, GRCS's, Hobb's devices or port-a-wraps. When I used to 'go big' we would do multiple wraps around the tongue of the trailer we were towing. After popping the arse end of the vehicle up off the ground, I began understanding better the forces that I was dealing with. Got tired of frying ropes too. It was either buy a lowering device, or go smaller.
I chose to go smaller, and learn to rig quicker, and not depend on a ground guy any more than possible, nothing more than to remove a chokered rope from a limb. I'll go into some of the numerous advantages in that. The swiftness in one guy quickly rigging severel small limbs can easily be lowered in the same time frame as two guys doing a large one. The aerial technician needs to make the call.
Here's an illustration of how to lower a limb from aloft, using a 2:1 mechanical advantage. This allows you to lift the limb if it gets hung up in branches below, or if you need to lift up a little over the roof or gutters so the ground guy can sink a pole and hook (wire raiser or pole saw hook) into it, a time when you need him to have his hands on a tool, and not on the rope.
Here's a few illustrations, three different ways to acheive essentially the same result.
Devices should be chosen based on the size of the limbs you are lowering; big devices for big limbs, which should be handled by groundmen, GRCS's, Hobb's devices or port-a-wraps. When I used to 'go big' we would do multiple wraps around the tongue of the trailer we were towing. After popping the arse end of the vehicle up off the ground, I began understanding better the forces that I was dealing with. Got tired of frying ropes too. It was either buy a lowering device, or go smaller.
I chose to go smaller, and learn to rig quicker, and not depend on a ground guy any more than possible, nothing more than to remove a chokered rope from a limb. I'll go into some of the numerous advantages in that. The swiftness in one guy quickly rigging severel small limbs can easily be lowered in the same time frame as two guys doing a large one. The aerial technician needs to make the call.
Here's an illustration of how to lower a limb from aloft, using a 2:1 mechanical advantage. This allows you to lift the limb if it gets hung up in branches below, or if you need to lift up a little over the roof or gutters so the ground guy can sink a pole and hook (wire raiser or pole saw hook) into it, a time when you need him to have his hands on a tool, and not on the rope.
Here's a few illustrations, three different ways to acheive essentially the same result.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here's a 4th way of that simple 2:1 scenario. I use eyed terminations, so on as with this rig, the eye gets clipped back onto the same biner through which the rope first passes. Very quick to set up.
After the limb lays on the ground, unclip the eye from the biner, drop it to the ground and start pulling rope. It is in this way that you can lower a limb on a 2:1 system and retrieve your rope from the tree. If you lace the lowering line through a natural crotch, as below, you keep all your rig. Often it's easier to choker a sling onto the limb to be lowered, but you have to give up the one sling.
After the limb lays on the ground, unclip the eye from the biner, drop it to the ground and start pulling rope. It is in this way that you can lower a limb on a 2:1 system and retrieve your rope from the tree. If you lace the lowering line through a natural crotch, as below, you keep all your rig. Often it's easier to choker a sling onto the limb to be lowered, but you have to give up the one sling.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
The censors have chilled. We just needed to get the point of SAFETY across, and have everybody on the same page that these are not techniques to be used with big limbs. I think we all get that important point.
Tree Machine
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Misleading, why? The friction does add up, allowing less of a grip from your hand. The nice thing about picking up friction from devices or caribiners is that it's a regular, consistent predictable friction. Through a crotch or over a limb, you'll get more more friction, but how much depends on the texture of the bark, diameter of the limb, wet or dry. Steel biners never really change, so the friction they offer remains relatively constant. This consistency offers predictability and results from one climber to the next should be essentially the same.
TreeCo, good point about the limb laying down could pinch the rope, rendering it irrecoverable from aloft, especially if you tie your eye with a big fat knot. A knotted eye also won't pass through a caribiner.
Thanks, 046. If you self-lower, intending to retrieve your rope from aloft, chances are your ground guy will go for the rope to untie it. It's funny when the rope right before him zips out of the limb and back up.
TreeCo, good point about the limb laying down could pinch the rope, rendering it irrecoverable from aloft, especially if you tie your eye with a big fat knot. A knotted eye also won't pass through a caribiner.
Thanks, 046. If you self-lower, intending to retrieve your rope from aloft, chances are your ground guy will go for the rope to untie it. It's funny when the rope right before him zips out of the limb and back up.
xtremetrees
Addicted to ArboristSite
This is kinda like untieing your own knot. 
In the pic two -of -the -same.jpeg I'd assume there is two much friction as the limb is lowered down?
I believe this may revolutionize the way use a tree as a friction device aloft. This is really the cats meow when it comes to SELF-RELIANCE it is a milestone for me bro
This idea I can see why it would be censored. Its still kicking me in the head...
It took 10 pages to reach this
In the pic two -of -the -same.jpeg I'd assume there is two much friction as the limb is lowered down?
I believe this may revolutionize the way use a tree as a friction device aloft. This is really the cats meow when it comes to SELF-RELIANCE it is a milestone for me bro
This idea I can see why it would be censored. Its still kicking me in the head...
It took 10 pages to reach this
Last edited:
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