Friction Savers! are they worth it

[treeguy224]

i am looking into purchasing a 48" friction saver, but i dont know if it is worth the money. I have done some research on them and found out they are really good to use on thin bark trees, and actually make the "false crotch" move. If any one has used them could someone let me know.
thanks a lot,
James

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Friction savers don't do what they claim to do, save friction. All they do is displace it in your climbing system. Instead of the friction being at your tie in point it is displaced into your climbing hitch. FS isn't the best name for the tool. False crotch is a better term.

By all means, get one. Your life will be better. But...the ring on ring FC aren't the most effecient. There are more effecient ones. Look here:

http://tinyurl.com/bt9t2

Search on "false crotches" here to find more info.

 

[NickfromWI]

At first, it might take some getting used to. Some people don't get past that "getting used to" phase and just throw the tool in the bottom of the bag.

It will save wear on the tree and the rope. The biggest reason I like it is for the consistency in friction between your tie-in point and your climbing line. You always know what to expect when you pull on your climbing line. You don't have to worry about if you are in a rough-barked tree, or anything like that.

love
nick

 

[Ross Turner]

Have a look at the ART Rope Guide its the best false crotch/cambium saver i have used.

 

[treeguy224]

Thanks a lot guys, i think it will help me out a bunch and i appreciate the input.

 

[newb]

Dont waste your time with the 48". Go right to the 72". Get the steel rings. I never climb without it. It might take a little longer to set up but your ropes will last longer. Great investment!!

 

[tophopper]

Whats wrong with the 48"?
and I'd recommend aluminum, but to each his own.

and what takes longer to set up? I can install a FC as fast as natural crotching.

 

[NickfromWI]

I used the aluminum for a few years and liked it.

Have you considered making your own?

love
nick

 

[Lumberjack]

I use an ART, but am thinking of making my own alumium ring/pulley ground-setable one.

The ART is awesome and is worth every penny IMO.

 

[okietreedude1]

I know some here may not agree, but my main reason for a false crotch is PINE SAP (or cedar). When that gets in your rope, it is hard to get out. Sure it can be removed, but start w/ the FC, and you dont have to worry as much.

Also, as for not reducing friction, BAH!. Come climb a large blackjack oak w/ and w/o. There's a major difference.

 

[Lumberjack]

I SRTed up a oak I was taking down last saturday and set the ART RS at my TIP and came back down clearing vines so I could take off the bottom limbs. When I can down and dropped the first limb and started going up the rope, I literally fell UP the rope due to going from SRT to frictionless DdRT. It was funny, I got a little chuckle and kept on workin.

The difference in friction is very pronounced.

 

[okietreedude1]

I suppose I can agree with that.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Ken,

Thanks for clarifying things

 

[Lumberjack]

Ken, I will disagree. They do reduce friction on the ascent. On the decent your correct but when your goin up the friction is reduced to the minute amount from the pulley and the friction of the hitch (VT collapsed in my case) sliding up the rope, as opposed to the friction from a natural TIP.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

NOPE!

Friction is just displaced in the system. Basic physics. The final control of the friction in the system is the climbing hitch. The more effecient the false crotch the more load there will be on the hitch. Don't understand this? Easy way to see. Take your climbing rope and do a full round turn around a limb. Now tie in your hitch. How much load do you feel on your hitch? How hard is it to move up the tree?

The ultimate end of this trial is a frictionless anchor. The rope is turned around the TIP enough so that there is no load on the end. All of the load is held by the friction of the rope wraps. The other end of the test is a pulley with low friction bearings, something like Thompson bearings. Since they are too expensive we'll stick with oil impregnated bronze bushings.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Defiantly go ART rope guide! With the new steel pulley.

 

[Lumberjack]

Tom I fail to see where the any added friction is put on the hitch on the ascent, while the hitch is collapsed and your going up the rope. Coming down I understand but on the ascent I think your incorrect. Either that or we are talking about 2 different things. I understand the replaced/added friction on the hitch while your working and decending but NOT while your going up the rope, which is when the friction REDUCTION in the SYSTEM is most appreciated on my end.

Not a flame, here for the education.

 

[Ekka]

Lumberjack you are totally correct, on the ascent the friction is eliminated.

As you pull down on the running end of the climbing line and advance yourself the friction hitch/split tail etc is not in service, until you slide it up or put your weight on it.

When you have done that and you're static or going down ... yes the ART Rope Guide (due to it's efficiency) transfers the friction to the hitch on rope.

Also I believe the ART Rope Guide can be retrieved from the ground but is awkward/difficult to install from the ground unlike the Cambium Saver.

 

[Jim1NZ]

I agree with Ekka and Lumberjack.
Friction on...
Directly over a branch, depending on type of bark can be any thing from about 80% of your body weight to over 100% of all of your body weight especially through a tight fork.

Cambium savers 65 to 70% of your weight is lifted.

Retrievable carabina and pulley set up (like a retrievable redirect set up) = 60 to 65%

Art rope guide or rope straight through a pulley only exactly half to 51% of your body weight is lifted when body thrusting etc

Your prussic has nothing to do with it friction on assent.

 

[Lumberjack]

Ur Ekka, you see the light!!

And yes the ART is easily retrieved (its the idea behind it) but not setable from the ground. There may be a way but if so it would be very complicated and annoying.