Frustrated, need to vent

[lxt]

feller,

that clears it up!! whew for a moment I thought you were all for this kind of behavior, but I know what you mean.... always someone gonna lowball ya!! the term lowball sounds a lil erotic doesnt it? oops wrong forum.

take care be safe!........LXT


ps. Rollacosta nice to hear from ya!!!!!

 

[treeman82]

Man, this is nuts. I spoke with the guy today and apparently the homeowner got another price of $4,000 from Slave-A-Tree.

My guy was bidding on the following:
1 large (36"+ DBH) tulip which was rotten and cracked. Leaning over the driveway and lines for several homes. Definately not safe to climb and rig. A crane is definately required here. At the bare minimum you'd want a 75'+ bucket truck. Even with the bucket though you'd have a severe risk of stem failure with rigging the wood out. Chips can be blown into the woods, and the wood can be left on site.

1 black oak (36"+ DBH) right next to and actually over the house. House has a clay tile roof. Chips can be blown into the woods I think, but the wood has to go, and the stump must be ground out.

3 trees in the woods had to be topped in order to see the river. A cottonweed, an ash, and something else that I forget. All the debris can stay.


Apparently Slave-A-Tree bid this job for $4,000 to include disposing of everything and grinding the stump.

 

[Thetreewisemen]

Don't you just lurve Slave-a-tree? If I said how I really feel about those delightful people...........they would sue me. Hey Treeman, I used to sell arb work in Westchester, where are you out of?

 

[treeman82]

I'm up by Yorktown and Somers. The job that I just posted about is in Tarrytown. The spruce tree is in Ossining not too far from Maryknoll.

 

[Thetreewisemen]

I used to cover from Larchmont up to Rye Brook, when I was selling for Almstead. Closing enough work in that 'cut-throat' area, to keep your guys busy 365 ain't easy my friend. I KNOW.....LOL

 

[treesquirrel]

Cheep

Yup, I know the feeling.

I got underbid on a job by 900.00 and I thought I hade bid it too low to make decent profit.

6 large pines 20-30 DBH which had to be climbed and sectioned to prevent property damage and damage to surrounding trees.

I bid 2500.00 with the chips to be blown into the woods which was nice to be able to do.

The lower bidder did the job but check this out. They just cut and dropped them into the woods and took out other treetops and many many limbs left damaged, broken, and hanging. They did remove the timber and chip the branches but did so much damage to the surrounding trees that insects will be making a bee line to them. Just downright unprofessional.

But it was cheep.

I wish I were not so proud of my work sometimes and could bring myself to become a walking natural disaster like some companies are.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Yea i feel that treesquirrel, it bad enough they cut every arborist in town down at the knees but then they damage surrounding trees with out a thought in the world. Totally unprofessional.

People like this give the industry such a bad name, home owners think that is what we are all like.

 

[Canyonbc]

Ahh

yes i think its good for us all to vent on this subject

and ya there is nothing any of us can do

and i am sure its bad through the country, but i think i come from the work

San Diego, California

The competion is ridicolous..

No offense...to anyone
but when the mexicans cross the boarder....there is nothing i can do

i get jobs because i am white....and i have a white crew...is this right???

Husky 142
Stihl 260 pro
Stihl 310
Stihl 036
Stihl 660 - On its way

 

[ropensaddle]

yes

especially illegals if that is your meaning you see some if not all
hackers here are using or exploiting them . some are them , are
gov needs to enforce laws instead of telling us they are doing
what Americans wont . I wonder if before this invasion began
all the work got done . In my life Ive done some crappy jobs
and even worked in cotton. I think they want to lower our standard
of living to keep labor force at lowest point so they dont have to
spend the tax we send them on their trees,or other labor how many
of you ever hauled hay as a kid or scooped snow ? I know I did,
and would again if became necessity. It really gets under my crawl
to be told I wont do something! especially by my leaders. I can say
the illegals are bad for our business, our country and now that Ive
vented I must say go home. The legals no prob but need to learn
language and be limited . We must take care of our own before we
focus on other countries. I dont blame them though most are hard
working people tryng to servive just like us but they do take from
our mouths and we just let them!!! The people hiring them our my
biggest mad because its not even apples to grapes boils down to
greed its funny but some of my best paying jobs seem to come
from the middle declining class folk I think because the know what
work is and know good help has value we are all in same boat I
wonder if we could start a brotherhood change some of our
concerns and preserve our dreams Im still very proud of being
American and god fearing studying to get certified 22 years in
canopy proud of the fact that forefather got in trouble for doing
what I do to some extent every day that am blessed with work
and I do give thanks

 

[treeseer]

They just cut and dropped them into the woods and took out other treetops and many many limbs left damaged, broken, and hanging. They did remove the timber and chip the branches but did so much damage to the surrounding trees that insects will be making a bee line to them. Just downright unprofessional.

And the owner did not inspect the work, and paid them anyway? Stupid owner. If you cared enough to follow up and witness the damage, why not take pictures? There IS something you can do--show clients who are getting bids from those yahoos what kind of work they do. Follow up on that job and take more pictures as the trees decline from the damage.

Better yet, show them the kind of work YOU do, with printed referrals from happy clients. All that in a folder with your insurance certificate, etc.

ropensaddle, nice post, but take a breath now an then and spread it out a little willya?

 

[SRT-Tech]

just curious but did any of you first start out with a chipper, big dump truck, rigging gear, climbing gear, 20 chainsaws, insurance, and the means/edumacation to charge big bucks for treework?


no one?

thats what i thought.

I bet each and every one of you starting out had either just a chainsaw and a truck, maybe some climbing gear, or you worked for a big company doing grunt work. I always find it funny how as soon as people become more edumacated or have their own companies, how they always diss and sneer at the lowly guy or low bidder on the totem pole. A tree job is'nt always YOUR decision - its the homeowners. And i can tell you a LOT of them DO NOT WANT to pay a month or two months wage to have a tree removed. Hence the success of the low bidder or "hack" as the elite call them. YOU were all that lowly guy at one point i'm betting.....thats the simple reality of a capitalist system........not condoning the "hacks" work or lack of skills...just saying that we were the little guy at some point.

someone posted that they find it hard how people can bid $500 for a takedown and live on it. Tell you what...when you have no overhead costs (ie chipper/grinder/truck/mortage etc) other than gas and rent/food, a $500 job once or twice a month DOES pay the bills. for the record i dont bid jobs, i work for a great company.



just saying.

opcorn:

 

[SRT-Tech]

so you just pulled all that money out of your pockets and bought the gear?

your the rare exception me thinks.

 

[treeseer]

SRT you are confusing quantity with quality. :monkey: The complaint as I read it is more about the kind of work that is done and not what it is done with.

For the record i choose to work out of a van and don't have most of the stuff you mentioned. But that has little effect on quality of work.

I think the bottom line here is: If you specialize in removals only you are feeding on the bottom with a lot of hacks. The more you specialize in tree care, the better the quality of client and the less the competition. $.03 This from this month's Arborist News, one guy's opinion:

People: Turning Customers into Clients
Tree care customers are likely to be older and more educated than average, and have owned their homes for over five years. Unfortunately, the public image of a tree service provider may be that of a machinery-operating construction worker who is inexperienced, impersonal, and inconsistent. To effectively target that audience, a more professional image must be portrayed.

A telephone call for an estimate to remove a tree is often the first contact arborists have with potential clients. To sell more than that single service, more information is needed--about the trees, the caller, and the ecosystems they are a part of. This information is best obtained on site. The business cost can be high—the estimator’s time, vehicle and material and administrative costs all should be factored in. If the business has certified employees and also displays professionalism on the initial contact, the caller may well agree to an inventory and a full management plan.

The first service involved in professional landscape management is an inventory. An hour or half-hour walking the site with the owner or manager gives you time to determine their motivation, identify their key plants, and prioritize their management. A bare-bones inventory yields a handwritten list of arboricultural steps toward a safe, healthy, and beautiful landscape. An inventory is an essential service for several reasons. It creates a reference point for client communication. It provides a starting point for recording treatments. It costs little to integrate digital images, which will allow clients to review their landscapes at their leisure. By placing all their arboreal assets in front of the owner, the inventory documents the increase in value through arboriculture.

That value grows over time, as the trees increase in vitality, volume, and contributions with the proper care and treatments. An inventory should be objective, and rendered in a form that can be implemented by any knowledgeable arborist. Even if the goal is for the same company to do the work, the inventory should be a distinct product. When the owner has the option to contract with other companies, there will be less perception of bias and more trust. If the caller still doesn’t want to pay for an inventory, the next step is to find out their reasons for wanting the tree removed. Their descriptions may provide openings for information from the arborist, leading to more trust by the owner.

If the customer is not receptive to any service aside from removal, the door to selling PHC should not be closed. While pricing the removal the estimator can keep an eye out for other plant needs. A brief note can be made on the bid sheet, and information attached. The ISA Consumer Information Series has an economical and effective format that enables consumers to gain familiarity with the basic needs of their landscape. Once they are sold on the service, PHC clients aren’t likely to be shopping for the lowest price. They want contact with the provider, information about the trees and the treatments, and results that they can appreciate on a sensory level--aesthetics. Cost is based on value delivered, which depends on what services the arborist’s business offers. PHC marketing focuses on growing tree benefits for the buyer.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Several other bigger outfits around here,and myself got together a while back,and we came up with a standard of pricing jobs.

Hmmmm....


Price Fixing n. a criminal violation of federal anti-trust statutes, in which several competing businesses reach a secret agreement (conspiracy) to set prices for their products to prevent real competition and keep the public from benefiting from price competition. Price fixing also includes secret setting of favorable prices between suppliers and favored manufacturers or distributors to beat the competition.

 

[treeman82]

I have this other customer... guy is a lawyer. I do some stump grinding for him, leaf clean-up, and some other stuff too. Well this past fall a local tree co. owed him a bunch of money. They came in and pruned a bunch of trees for the guy. I was a little miffed about that, however what really pissed me off was that they had 2 climbers up this LARGE red oak just taking out dead wood.. both climbers were wearing spikes. This guy has been in business for quite some time, and his guys are wearing spikes pruning a bunch of mature oaks. Now I really wanted to add insult to injury, another arborist was working at this guy's house a few weeks later. The two are neighbors, so I'm not sure exactly what the story is there... but the one guy is a CA maybe you know him Guy? (Steve Knapp) So I'm working there and was apauled by the spiking, and I am sure that Steve wasn't too impressed either.